|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+
#6320725 - 11/30/06 08:33 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The recent thread about everyone's favorite casing layer got me wondering about this miracle grow moisture control stuff for use as a casing layer. I started doing a little research, and it seems that some people swear by it (creamcorn in particular).
My current grow is a large monotub with WBS spawned to hpoo, and sometime next week I'm going to be casing it. As of now I already have spahgnum peat moss and crushed oyster shell flower, but I haven't purchased any verm or lime yet.
For those who have tried both the miracle grow moisture control and the 50/50+, what do you recommend? I am liking the ease of use on the MC, but if the results will be better with the 50/50+ I'm not afraid of a little extra work (after pasteurizing horse shit on my stove top i don't think anything could be worse).
So what do you think, case my monotub with miracle grow MC or 50/50+?
|
Meth
Stranger


Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 122
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6320810 - 11/30/06 09:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I always thought that the success of the 50/50 was that 50% of it was vermiculite. Most likely that miracle grow is not 50% vermiculite and hopefully has no perlite in it. While it should be ph balanced which is a plus. I think that it would be better to add verm to it to make it 50/50. But I'm sure it works fine without adding verm to it.
I vote 50/50+ but will check out the miracle grow today. It probably cheaper to use.
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Meth]
#6320835 - 11/30/06 09:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I've read some people add 5 or 10% verm to the miracle grow.
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6320897 - 11/30/06 09:38 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Well you already mentioned me so I don't know how much this counts.... but for what its worth, I have used both, and even if we took ease of prep/cost/ease of finding materials, and JUST look at performance, I still say MG MC is the clear winner.
Add back in the fact that it IS easy and inexpensive to find in stores, no ingredients to mix (with the exception of a pH buffer, which is a good idea, but not an absolute requirement), etc etc there's just no contest. 50/50+ is obsolete IMO.
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6321171 - 11/30/06 11:14 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
creamcorn said: There's just no contest. 50/50+ is obsolete IMO.
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6321231 - 11/30/06 11:44 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
creamcorn said: Well you already mentioned me so I don't know how much this counts.... but for what its worth, I have used both, and even if we took ease of prep/cost/ease of finding materials, and JUST look at performance, I still say MG MC is the clear winner.
Add back in the fact that it IS easy and inexpensive to find in stores, no ingredients to mix (with the exception of a pH buffer, which is a good idea, but not an absolute requirement), etc etc there's just no contest. 50/50+ is obsolete IMO.
Well you have convinced me. I've read through your old posts so I know which miracle grow to buy, but I'm still a little unclear on a good pH buffer and how much to use. I have crushed oyster shell flower, would that be good and in what amount? Also, I've got no way to test the ph so should I even bother?
|
Jorsher
Psychonaut


Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 691
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6321242 - 11/30/06 11:47 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Hmm...yeah I saw that at the store and thought maybe it'd be good, but didn't know if anyone tried it before. Right now I have a 50/50 mix of jiffy mix peat moss and vermiculite, with a handful of oyster shell in it.
Like Dihnekis asked, how much oyster shell in the maracle grow? Or can I just throw in a handful?
-------------------- 5 shroom me!
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Jorsher]
#6321302 - 11/30/06 12:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Dammit,they just stooped carrying it because its "Seasonal" at the walmart by me....Let the search began
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6321341 - 11/30/06 12:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Well fuck, I sure hope they didn't do that here.
|
DrB
Stranger


Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 89
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6321380 - 11/30/06 12:46 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
my local walmart still has a pallet where they have all the christmas stuff, though i did get a funny look from the cashier when i bought it.
-------------------- They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
|
stuff3232
Still Learning
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 38
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: DrB]
#6321406 - 11/30/06 12:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The Walmart around me is out of it now too, but Lowe's still had a large pallet full. Make sure to check out Lowe's or Home Depot for it.
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: stuff3232]
#6321483 - 11/30/06 01:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Home depot it is
|
MajorDick
notbeingadick


Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Westchestertonfieldville,...
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6321512 - 11/30/06 01:38 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Yeah I gotta 10% off coupon for Home Depot. It expires at the end of the year, and I'd have to go two towns over to find one. The Lowe's here is out of verm, but all they had was fine ass crap. I should go there and stock up on some shit soon,
|
Terillius
Renaissance Man

Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 1,301
Loc:
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: MajorDick]
#6321651 - 11/30/06 02:27 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
creamcorn also convinced me. I have been using generic "Premium" potting soil with great results. Honestly, I can't believe I was mixing my own casing material once. You would have to be a doped up stoner to... wait a minute...
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Terillius]
#6321970 - 11/30/06 04:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The annoying part of this all is that I didn't case my last grow because I couldn't get all of the 50/50+ materials together in time. And to think, I could have just gotten some Miracle Grow.
|
MystikMushroom
I RULE YOU!
Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 400
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6322071 - 11/30/06 04:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Do you guys pasturize or pressure cook your ready-made casing material?
I'm asking because I'm about to inoculate 7 2lb rye bags for some casings and I know the rye/syringes are sterile...and I know I can make the loaf pans damn near sterile w/alchohol...
Do you guys just use it "as is" right out of the bag?
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
|
Pasteurizing is better for casings I think. I could be wrong though, and I don't know from experience.
|
odium33
_____///


Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 1,187
Loc: mycoland
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6322121 - 11/30/06 05:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
what is ratio of hydrated lime needed in miracle grow mix to achieve balanced ph?
-------------------- ----------
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6322138 - 11/30/06 05:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I'm still wondering about the ph buffer as well. Is crushed oyster shell flour acceptable, and in what amount?
|
Grogan
Shroomieologist


Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 1,146
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6322317 - 11/30/06 06:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
goal of pasturizing or sterileization is to kill everything that could hinder the efforts of the myc.. right?? How is one better than the other
-------------------- "Maybe a cow occasionally ate a shroom, but it certainly wouldn't be such a potent shroom that the cow would be trippin balls. " LOL
|
ethnoeste
ethno


Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 144
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Grogan]
#6322417 - 11/30/06 06:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Sterilizing will kill everything, including some bacteria that acts on your behalf to fend off contams. Sterilizing will require you to proceed in a sterile environment or risk contaminating your efforts.
Pasteurization will kill many things, but not everything, including some bacteria that help keep contaminations at bay. From what many OGs on the boards say, pasteurization is the way to go.
Although several prolific and respectable growers swear by sterilization with great results.
I think it's a choice partially determined by your set up, methods, and desired route.
I went the pasteurization route, and am waiting to see what the results will be.
Then, I might try the sterilziation route, for comparison.
|
MajorDick
notbeingadick


Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Westchestertonfieldville,...
|
|
Quote:
MystikMushroom said: Do you guys just use it "as is" right out of the bag?
I'm thinking if its used straight out of the bag right after its opened it would be fine. But pasteurizing will always be a good idea.
I'm actually prolly gonna try this soon on a coir *pseudo*casing if one starts to look like it wants to overlay. I may not have time to pasteurize.
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: MajorDick] 1
#6322746 - 11/30/06 08:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
ok lots of questions here i guess i should chime in 
first off lets make sure we're on the same page:
  
miracle gro moisture control.. note the two different bag designs, but its the same product. its not simply potting soil, though potting soil in fact serves as a mediocre casing, roughly on par with a straight verm casing.
as for prep we got some options:
straight out of the bag - works, don't be sad if mean green drops by to check things out after the first flush. 
pasteurization - the true textbook way to prepare a casing. reduces the mold spore counts, allows bacteria to survive. bacteria play an important role in keeping things in "statis" - that is, they actually turn it around in this stage and can help PREVENT mold contaminates to some extent on your casing. they're also believed to stimulate pin development... bad guys to have around in your spawn jars, but good friends in a casing layer. (i have an inkling the small amount of "forest bed compost" contained in the moisture control product actually might feed and promote these beneficial bacteria, just a theory, but you won't see any other casing layer promote SO many pins effortlessly - and i'm trying to understand why!) the whole bacteria issue is less of an issue with cubensis, but more of an issue with other species (some in fact will NOT fruit without the presence of proper bacteria)... because cubes aren't picky, is the very reason why there's so much argument here whether sterilization or pasteurization is best - the answer is pasteurization, but not always by a noticable amount in the case of cubes! anyway enough of that tangent
sterilizing - you can load the hydrated stuff up into jars and PC them like you would anything else...
microwaving - call it "psuedo-pasteurization" or "incomplete sterilization" or what have you, its somewhere in between a true pasteurization and a sterilization. this is what i commonly use, when i'm too lazy to set up a true pasteurization.
now, onto the question of adding verm to it. you can. you don't have to. i've found it doesn't change much, but a small amount of fine verm does make it more crumbly and easier to spread. i mainly use a small percentage (10-20%) verm in there because i have a crapload of verm to get rid of. i wouldn't go run out and get some just to add it.
as for pH buffering... remember this is a mostly peat based product, and as such follows the same rules as using peat based mix like 50/50. however, it doesn't seem to be quite so acidic as straight peat... samples straight from the bag have tested around the low 6's for me... whereas peat registers a high 3 or low 4 pH. as a rule of thumb, use half the amount of buffer as you would for the peat in a 50/50 recipe. there's a couple 50/50 recipes here so i'll leave that as an excersize in using the search engine. i personally use hydrated lime in mine, and over time have become pretty damn good at just eyeballing it, so its kinda like grandma's cookin'.... i don't have a recipe for you. i like to put some water in the bowl, add the lime, mix it around, then mix in the casing so that its well distributed - then adjust more water or more casing mix as neccessary (on larger batches or when i have time, i do allow it to stand for a while, and test the pH to be sure i'm in the right range.) of course same rule applies, 7.5-8 is optimal. gypsum is another good additive, in the 5-10% range, as it helps hold pH stable, again helps with that "crumblyness" (like mentioned with verm), and supplies elements like calicum & sulfur to your crop.
your other option of course, is not to buffer it at all. again, this works. i've done it and gone 3 contam free flushes. this casing mix, a healthy mycelial network beneath, and plenty of FAE in your FC, and you'll likely do the same. pH buffering really is like taking out a contaminate insurance policy on your project, and definitely helps keep you in the game for those later flushes - if you're using the materials to make for a really deep substrate, you deserve to get quite a few flushes - so its a good idea. if you're just learning, experimenting, playing around, etc, don't get so hung up on the pH buffering stuff.
hmm other tips... well sometimes you come across chunks of wood or sticks. these should be picked out. in fact, running it through a coarse mesh strainer of sorts would probably make the mix even better.
and finally some inspiration:

i *think* that should cover most of it, though i'm sure there will be more questions.
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6323167 - 11/30/06 10:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Book marked for future reference
|
Anonymous
|
Post deleted by Anno [Re: Blutjager]
#6323230 - 11/30/06 11:14 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: ]
#6323300 - 12/01/06 01:25 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Thanks so much creamcorn, that's a great guide that I'm going to follow to the letter.
How deep do you usually make your casing layer?
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6324026 - 12/01/06 11:05 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Usually between 1/4" and 3/4". Depends on the substrate thickness to some extent. A thinner substrate (2 in or less) I'd head more towards the thinner quarter inch casing layer - which really isn't a whole lot, its just enough to cover it up so that you can't see any mycelium underneath. If you're going deeper, like 4" of substrate, I'd head more towards the 3/4" number... use your judgement as for something in that neighborhood depending on how much substrate you're using.
I personally grow for efficiency versus total yields, I simply don't have a need for that many mushrooms, but I like to push the limits of the hobby. Typically I use 2" substrate depths with about 1/4" casing layers and can achieve first flush densities of about 2.5oz dry material per square foot (though under those conditions expect fruitbodies around 4" tall... but lots of em!) Not too shabby. I know some folks like to do the 4+" deep grows for the extended number of flushes and monster fruits it can throw off... so its all up to your style and goals - don't be afraid to try adjusting things to fit.
|
Primate
former addict


Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 855
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6324230 - 12/01/06 12:26 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
God damnit! now i gotta be trying some MGMC. Makes me wanna kick the stupid 50 pound bag of peat chillin' in my pad.
lol good stuff guys.
-Prim
-------------------- "Power to the peaceful"
-Micheal Franti and Spearhead
|
speeddealer
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 142
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Primate]
#6324312 - 12/01/06 12:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
A friend has recently started making monotubs and tried spawning with hpoo until the surface is fully colonized and then casing with MGMC just as he's ready to fruit.
He's also tried spawning and adding the casing layer during the spawn run to let it colonize a bit.
He's noticed that he can see MANY more knots and pins when he cases AFTER the spawn run, but that he gets a higher abort rate with this method. The ones that were spawned and cased at the same time, he doesn't actually see nearly as many knots but he's seeing less aborts with this method. He assumes that the knots are just below the casing layer in a much more favorable microclimate, but he's not sure which is better or if his results are more than just strain variance or anecdotal observations. Anyone care to weigh in?
PS--he's been adding some hydrated lime and crushed oyster shells to the MGMC as he's been experiencing ph of around 6 out of the bag. He needs a better test kit...
|
odium33
_____///


Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 1,187
Loc: mycoland
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: speeddealer]
#6325232 - 12/01/06 06:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
If my calculations are correct, to mix 2 quarts of miracle gro mixture and properly balance the ph, you will need 5 tbsp of hydrated lime.
-------------------- ----------
|
floyd242
Stranger
Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 22
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: odium33]
#6325582 - 12/01/06 08:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
odium33 said: If my calculations are correct, to mix 2 quarts of miracle gro mixture and properly balance the ph, you will need 5 tbsp of hydrated lime.
are you sure? that seems like a lot I thought it was only 1 tsp per cup of peat in the 50/50+
|
buddhasninja
Stranger



Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 83
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6326038 - 12/01/06 11:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
That was a damn fine post. I wish I knew I could use MC before I went out and bought the peat and verm. I couldn't find either in my area so I had to buy online, and it wasn't cheap. . Oh, and does anybody know if you can use the Miracle Gro as bulk in a spawn bag to mix in colonized rye grass seed???
-------------------- Place the patty on a sesame seed bun, in accordance to the principle of balance as mentioned by the Buddha. This may be an ordinary bun, but a true ninja prefers to toast the bun lightly in order to better savor the flavor of his burger.
|
poboy
On the bounce


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 1,355
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ *DELETED* [Re: odium33]
#6326085 - 12/02/06 12:09 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by poboyReason for deletion: d
-------------------- Burn the land and boil the sea but you can't take the sky from me.    
|
acacia314
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 103
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: poboy]
#6326375 - 12/02/06 02:57 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
For my first grow Im using Jiffy-mix; 80% peat moss, 20% perite, and "less than 1% lime" out of the bag.
-------------------- Here I sit my mind reposed.
Pond'ring what i do not know.
|
WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: speeddealer]
#6326546 - 12/02/06 05:58 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Speeddealer - A friend has recently started making monotubs and tried spawning with hpoo until the surface is fully colonized and then casing with MGMC just as he's ready to fruit.
He's also tried spawning and adding the casing layer during the spawn run to let it colonize a bit.
He's noticed that he can see MANY more knots and pins when he cases AFTER the spawn run, but that he gets a higher abort rate with this method. The ones that were spawned and cased at the same time, he doesn't actually see nearly as many knots but he's seeing less aborts with this method. He assumes that the knots are just below the casing layer in a much more favorable microclimate, but he's not sure which is better or if his results are more than just strain variance or anecdotal observations. Anyone care to weigh in?
Very cool ... A friend of mine also has done almost exactly what you are describing here but with small tray casings. Hasn't reach pinning yet, but will definitely be within the next few days. We can compare results. I find it odd that you should be experiencing higher abort ratio's from the post-cased tub...similar environments I would imagine right? so, no real variations in that factor...you really think it could be the application time of the casing mix? One or the other, they better both work.... 
BTW....OLD SCHOOL 50/50 PEAT/VERM RULES !!! Don't be a slave to corporate capitalization !!! WHHAAAAAAA..........LOL
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o-
----------------------------------------------------------------
Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
-------------------------------------------------------------
WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
|
Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: WIZOLZ]
#6327246 - 12/02/06 01:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
50.50

but. cheers to reinvention!
|
odium33
_____///


Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 1,187
Loc: mycoland
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: poboy]
#6330363 - 12/03/06 02:39 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
poboy said: Thats nuts.Wayyyyyyy toooo muchQuote:
odium33 said: If my calculations are correct, to mix 2 quarts of miracle gro mixture and properly balance the ph, you will need 5 tbsp of hydrated lime.
maybe you could help me get it right instead of simply telling me that im wrong
-------------------- ----------
|
dalorean88
power2thelittlepeople


Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 315
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: odium33]
#6331128 - 12/03/06 07:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
okay. I want to know more about the microwave past/sterilize process. This sounds like a whole lot of fun! How long and at what setting will work.
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: dalorean88]
#6331184 - 12/03/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I plan on just loading it into oven bags, and then bringing up to 160 degrees in a pot of water on the stove and keeping it there for 2 hours.
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: dalorean88]
#6331247 - 12/03/06 08:07 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
My process for microwaving:
-hydrate mix -place in large microwave safe container -cover with saran wrap -nuke on high for 2 minutes, wait 15. -nuke a second time on high for 2 minutes, wait 15 more. -finally, nuke a third time on high for 2 minutes, wait until cool (a few hours)
you may need to adjust the numbers slightly if you're working with a very large or very small amount of casing mix - but the idea is to simply get the mixture "hot" without going too nuts, and keeping that temp up for a period of time. its not an exact science for sure, so just use some judgement. worst things that can happen: not enough heat - not a huge deal, we know untreated, this mix still works. too much heat and you're bordering on sterilization rather than pasteurization - again, we know sterilized casing mixes still perform fine for cubensis, so again not the end of the world.
as for the lime, i won't leave you guys hanging any more. it would be about 2.5 tablespoons per quart, in other words exactly what odium had said above... that's going by half of whats traditionally used in 50/50... and thinking about it now i might revise that and say round it down to 2TBSp/quart... aka a half tablespoon per cup.
|
OHSnap
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 77
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ *DELETED* [Re: creamcorn]
#6331328 - 12/03/06 08:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
a
Edited by OHSnap (08/19/12 11:05 AM)
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: OHSnap]
#6331357 - 12/03/06 08:46 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rockonthelawn said: creamcorn: about how hydrated do you make the miracle grow? Do you add water until it is noticeably wet looking and sticky or until its soaking?
Field capacity= water should not be dripping out of it unless you squeeze it
|
Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-



Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6331738 - 12/03/06 11:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
looks like i got something new to try
--------------------
Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
|
moho456
The Past Inside The Present


Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 223
Loc: Translinguistic Matter
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: odium33]
#6332176 - 12/04/06 06:35 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
odium33 said:
Quote:
poboy said: Thats nuts.Wayyyyyyy toooo muchQuote:
odium33 said: If my calculations are correct, to mix 2 quarts of miracle gro mixture and properly balance the ph, you will need 5 tbsp of hydrated lime.
maybe you could help me get it right instead of simply telling me that im wrong
It was mentioned earlier by a member, less than 1%.
--------------------
|
El_Flying_Mohawk
Stranger


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 147
Last seen: 24 days, 17 hours
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: moho456]
#6332192 - 12/04/06 06:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I can't seem to find anything here without perlite, how bad is it if there is???
-------------------- Forever noob
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
|
Quote:
El_Flying_Mohawk said: I can't seem to find anything here without perlite, how bad is it if there is???
the mixture does have a very small amount of perlite - see ingredients on the post of mine a few pages back with all the pictures... its not bad at all.
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6334324 - 12/04/06 08:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This stuff works great,I'm not even growing right now and I just bought a bag just cause I saw it and the place where I usually buy it stopped carrying it for the season,I fail to understand why anyone would make their own casing mix,Hydrate it,pasteurize it,and case
|
soulsizzle
nobody f**kswith The Jesus

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 632
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6334393 - 12/04/06 09:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
How much is does a bag of MGMC cost (and for what sized bag). It seems to me that you can't get more cost effective than 50/50+. A large bale of peat moss and a huge bag of vermiculite cost barely anything at all considering how much you will get out of them. And hydrated lime lasts forever due to how little you use at a time.
--------------------
|
surfster
Stranger

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 30
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: soulsizzle]
#6334527 - 12/04/06 09:39 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
$3 for an 8 quart bag of MGMC at Home Depot
|
odium33
_____///


Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 1,187
Loc: mycoland
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6334654 - 12/04/06 10:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
creamcorn said:
it would be about 2.5 tablespoons per quart, in other words exactly what odium had said above... that's going by half of whats traditionally used in 50/50... and thinking about it now i might revise that and say round it down to 2TBSp/quart... aka a half tablespoon per cup.
lol.
-------------------- ----------
|
Cyanic
not that guy


Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 47
Loc: buckeye
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: surfster]
#6334656 - 12/04/06 10:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Does anyone know what effects the added fertilizer has on cubes? Mainly this is a concern of edibility. Yeah all "non-organic" plants you eat now used fertilizer and pesticides and they don't kill you(not that its good for you), but mushrooms aren't plants. I realize the casing isn't actually used as food for shrooms, but couldn't the mycellium still absorb some of these fertilizer. And what exactly do they use as a "wetting agent"? I don't buy all organic food, but this still concerns me. I'd like to use it becuase time is a factor for me. This is the label off of the bag. I pulled it from theyre website. I'm not going to link it but just google Miracle Grow Moisture control.
Any ideas?
-------------------- "Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"-JD
I know that I'm not perfect
And I don't claim to be.
But before you point your fingers,
Make sure your hands are clean.
-bob marley
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Cyanic]
#6334666 - 12/04/06 10:24 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Uh. Probably not good for us, but probably won't kill us either. I'm buying some later tonight.
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6334740 - 12/04/06 10:51 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
there's not a damn thing in there that's going to hurt you in the slightest of ways.
take a moment, fire up wikipedia, and look up those ingredients for yourself. you'll laugh at the idea of even worrying about it.
fertilizers aren't harmful "chemicals" at all... (well, of course they're chemicals, but not in the sense that most people have some kind of negative association with as automatically "bad for you")... and they're in extremely low concentrations that release slowly in that mix anyway.
as for a wetting agent, they don't get specific, but many things can act as a wetting agent. a wetting agent is simply something capable of breaking the surface tension of water... wetting agents appear in many products you eat, put on your body, and have around your house every day. there's a chance you may have even rubbed one all of your penis before there are several horticultural wetting agents, used to treat soils, some of which are even certified organic if you're into that hippy hype it would be nice if they said specifically what they used, but i can assure you its not going to be anything toxic to worry about...
don't assume something is automatically "bad for you" because you don't know what it is - instead, take a moment to go read about what it is... i'd be more worried about the effects on your psyche of the mind alterting chemicals you're trying to cultivate
Edited by creamcorn (12/04/06 11:04 PM)
|
Cyanic
not that guy


Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 47
Loc: buckeye
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6335623 - 12/05/06 08:14 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I'm by no means the hippie type, or a health freak for that matter.
Yeah alot of fertilizers aren't bad for you, but some of them are pretty shitty. Alot of my close relatives are farmers and two work for pioneer and one for round up, and having helped them with work before, i can say that some of that shit is really really nasty. after spraying crops with baby killing chemicals (cue the hippies) I'm definatly not the one to prejudge things.
But your right they wouldnt really be putting that shit in here, and I did notice most are present on only trace amounts. I am familiar with wetting agents, I was just curious as to the particular one.
I guess I'm just making mountains out of mole hills. Should have done some more research first. Just seemed to easy to be true. thanks for the info though!
-------------------- "Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"-JD
I know that I'm not perfect
And I don't claim to be.
But before you point your fingers,
Make sure your hands are clean.
-bob marley
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Cyanic]
#6335962 - 12/05/06 10:34 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Of course large amounts of certain types of highly concentrated fertilizers need to be handled with care, but that's not even close to what we're dealing with here 
People use hydrogen peroxide in their grows all the time too, if they had large amounts of highly concentrated H2O2 can cause spontaneous combustion or explosions too...
Its all about keeping it in perspective
|
fazdazzle
Wanderer

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 12 years, 15 days
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6342829 - 12/06/06 11:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
So let me get this straight - the casing layer does little if anything at all for supplying nutrients? then what exactly is the point of a casing layer? and if this is true, then is it an almost absolute necessity to spawn your colonized substrate to something (coir for example) unless you are ok with subpar results?
Also, supposedly the more nitrogen the better - up to 3.7% that is, which isn't exactly a trace amount...so are we forced into potent but potentially unhealthy in the long term shrooms or weak shrooms that you're not risking your life to consume?
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6342889 - 12/06/06 11:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Well I'm giving it a shot. Home depot had a bigass bag (32 qts) for $8 so I bought it.
This is what I just cased with it on Tuesday. 30 gallon monotub, 8 pints of WBS spawned to 3 inches of hpoo. Colonized in 6 days.
Edited by Dihnekis (12/06/06 11:25 PM)
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: fazdazzle]
#6343033 - 12/07/06 12:06 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fazdazzle said: So let me get this straight - the casing layer does little if anything at all for supplying nutrients? then what exactly is the point of a casing layer? and if this is true, then is it an almost absolute necessity to spawn your colonized substrate to something (coir for example) unless you are ok with subpar results?
Also, supposedly the more nitrogen the better - up to 3.7% that is, which isn't exactly a trace amount...so are we forced into potent but potentially unhealthy in the long term shrooms or weak shrooms that you're not risking your life to consume?
Yes,the casing layer does little in the way of supplying nutrients to your mushrooms,the purpose of the casing layer is to hold moisture close to the surface and help provide a better microclimate for pinning and growth
|
fazdazzle
Wanderer

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 12 years, 15 days
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6343995 - 12/07/06 10:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Any thoughts on my other questions?
or is it totally kosher to case straight colonized substrate?
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: fazdazzle]
#6344031 - 12/07/06 10:28 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Your other questions are pretty basic principles of bulk growing so I suggest you read up on it. Its a bit of a thread-jack and heading way off topic to be discussing that here.
Substrate is a generic term that encompasses all the nutritive elements you've given your crops to colonize. So straight grains can be a substrate. Grains spawned to bulk is still a substrate, though now its made up of several ingredients. So yes, you case colonized substrate... that's the whole idea. Doesn't matter what your substrate is made out of.
I understand what you're getting at I think, you're asking if its ok to use straight grains like wbs or rye as the sole material in your substrate. You can. You get better results mixing it with a bulk material, because bulk holds a lot of moisture, whereas grains do not. Spawning to bulk also multiplies your substrate mass many times over.
As for the whole nitrogen thing, we're concerned with whats in your substrate, not your casing layer. As Blutjager just explained, the casing layer does not provide nutrition, any nutrition you want to be accessable to your crops come from the substrate.
As for the potent versus unpotent, healthy versus unhealthy, you've lost me... again do some reading and you'll learn the true way to produce potent mushrooms is by working with potent genetics, in combination with an optimal substrate - has zilch zero nada to do with your casing layer. As for health concerns, to keep it brief and put it blunt, there aren't any when casing with this material, period.
|
fazdazzle
Wanderer

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 12 years, 15 days
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6344098 - 12/07/06 10:54 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Wow, creamcorn you are the man! haha
honestly, I have spend probably a cumulative of days reading up on different strategies but I could never understand those parts. I think it is assumed that most people know these things so no one talks about it, then when new people come in the info isn't there....or else it's the 14th post in a thread not even related (which you have to stumble upon). I strongly believe there should be basically an outline to all growing. it would be a monumental task, but it would help a lot
sorry man for rainin on your parade...it wasn't my intention
thanks again
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: fazdazzle]
#6344146 - 12/07/06 11:11 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fazdazzle said: sorry man for rainin on your parade...it wasn't my intention
thanks again
haha no problem at all, i can just see where its headed... off topic questions lead to further off topic questions and before you know it the original pertinent stuff gets buried... like you point out. the hardest part of growing really is the fact there's so many ways to do it, its overwhelming just starting out... so if you still have questions or confusion on the process feel friend to send myself or note or better yet make a new thread so you can get multiple opinions and so others can benefit from reading them... just wanna keep organized is all.
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6350087 - 12/09/06 04:25 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Here is my current Miracle Grow casing. It is a monotub, horse manure from 8 pints of colonized WBS (malabar strain). Miracle grow was spread on tuesday morning, put in fruiting mode friday at noon. I wonder how long it will take to pin?
30 gallon, 3 inch substrate depth. Casing layer is thin, probably a 1/4 inch at most.
|
creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6350583 - 12/09/06 10:50 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
MGMC has an uncanny habit of pinning exactly on day 6 in fruiting every time for me So... Thursday? 
Then again I do things pretty consistently to get that consistent result, I'm kinda half kidding when I predict Thursday, but you are looking at something around there 
We'll see though... definitely keep us up to date, it'll be funny if you got pins on Thursday
|
twistedninja
Stranger under the bed


Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 410
Loc: TX
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6350695 - 12/09/06 11:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I use MG MC because of creamcorn. I had never thought of using something like that before but it was so easy and cheap I couldn't resist trying it. Thanks Creamcorn!!
|
Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6350839 - 12/09/06 12:43 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
creamcorn said: MGMC has an uncanny habit of pinning exactly on day 6 in fruiting every time for me So... Thursday? 
Then again I do things pretty consistently to get that consistent result, I'm kinda half kidding when I predict Thursday, but you are looking at something around there 
We'll see though... definitely keep us up to date, it'll be funny if you got pins on Thursday
Sadly I have to leave on Friday, so I hope they come before Thursday. One of my friends is going to be babysitting the tub for me... it sucks though, I'm not gonna be able to harvest my own first grow.
|
funnyfeeling
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 109
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#6366408 - 12/13/06 02:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Hey all you master debaters out there. I was requested to add a pic of a recently cased tray to show what an amazing job Miracle Gro Moisture Control does. This is rye spawned to coco/coir at a 1:1 ratio. The strain is Puerto Rican. So to all those that never got PR to grow, trust me, its worth trying it until you succeed. Its an awesome strain, and very potent.
-------------------- "Love, Bang, Crash, Wakka, Wakka, Bam Thwok"
~ Kim Deal
|
zathan
Buttstuff

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 902
Loc: So long stinktown
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Dihnekis]
#6366482 - 12/13/06 03:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dihnekis said: Here is my current Miracle Grow casing. It is a monotub, horse manure from 8 pints of colonized WBS (malabar strain). Miracle grow was spread on tuesday morning, put in fruiting mode friday at noon. I wonder how long it will take to pin?
30 gallon, 3 inch substrate depth. Casing layer is thin, probably a 1/4 inch at most.
Looks good so far. I'd be surprised if it doesn't start knotting by before the weekend.
|
Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: funnyfeeling]
#6366615 - 12/13/06 03:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
funnyfeeling said: Hey all you master debaters out there. I was requested to add a pic of a recently cased tray to show what an amazing job Miracle Gro Moisture Control does. This is rye spawned to coco/coir at a 1:1 ratio. The strain is Puerto Rican. So to all those that never got PR to grow, trust me, its worth trying it until you succeed. Its an awesome strain, and very potent.
Nice job
|
time2
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 357
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: Blutjager]
#6397602 - 12/22/06 05:58 PM (18 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
WOW!!! I've been working on my first grow (have LC's incubating now), I was going to do PF cakes in my PMP but I think I'm doing this now. I was going to do casings with 50/50 but that's too complicated for my first grow (IMO).
Thanks CC for all your help.
|
Gatorade
A-With-A-Teeth-A

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 175
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
Re: Miracle Grow MC vs 50/50+ [Re: creamcorn]
#9078524 - 10/14/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I am sorry for bringing up an old post, almost two years in age.
This thread is definitely the most complete and informational about the subject of Miracle Grow Moisture Control, so I believe it should be posted here.
There is some debate as to the amount of lime that the MGMC should be mixed with. Initially, creamcorn (the undisputed authority on the matter), stated it should be roughly half the amount found in the usual 50/50 method (or perhaps more correctly, the 50/50+ method). The original method calls for 4% lime, by volume, in addition to oyster shell. Therefore we would assume he would mean roughly 2% by volume. In a following post, it was stated that it should be 2.5 tablespoons for each quart, this would be 3.9% by volume. Creamcorn went on to say that 2.5 tablespoons would be a little much, so reduced his recommendation to 2 tablespoons per quart, or 3.125% by volume.
As we can see that the range of suggestions are from 2% to almost 4% by volume. I have yet to use this method, but will soon, I will go for 3% by volume.
I hope this addition will be useful to anyone else considering this method, after doing the math myself, I felt it could help.
--------------------
|
|