Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6321226 - 11/30/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
My mushrooms, which very much macroscopically are very alike yours, were identified for me under the microscope by Dr. Gaston Guzman as Psilocybe cyanescens.

However, I believe most of the alledged friscosa's are P. cyanofibrilosa.

So compare my images from Seattle with yours from San Fran.





Wait.... so you're trying to prove that the alleged cyanofriscosas are cyanofibrillosas by poiting out the macroscopic similarity of the cyanofriscosas with cyanescens????

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

What is your point? If you're trying to convince us of them being cyanofibrillosa, then why are you comparing them to cyanescens? Shouldn't you compare them to cyanofibrillosas??


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6321505 - 11/30/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

auweia said:
Here's something I've never seen done before. This cardboard is inoculated woodchips from both psilocybe cyanescens and these new friscosas..half and half mixed togther

it's still a little early, but as you can see, they are starting to grow into one another and become one organism



whether or not this becomes a shroomzilla that rampages through the bay area remains to be seen  :smile:




And this phenomenon introduces a new issue:
Only same species can "mate", which would suggest that,
1. you misidentified one of the species, or,
2. they are the same species, but perhaps one is a sub-species, or,
3. one of the species is over taking the other.

Very curious...


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6321818 - 11/30/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I know who John is.
That doesn't mean that I or anyone should pretend not to notice the insufficiencies of his last interjection.

I did not flame him, I simply stated my observations.
If no one challenges anyone when there is unclarity, we will not progress in our understanding.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6326770 - 12/02/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bluemeanie said:
phenotypical variation within species can be amazing (compare pygmies to swedish people)





Quote:

bluemeanie said:
specification comes down to to variables - isolation or advantage. Every mushroom has a range of different phenotypes it can employ to handle specific environmental parameters. Some serve and apparent purpose, others dont serve any discernable one - some remain some dont.




:congrats:
Well stated.

My frustration on this issue is the lack of evidence.  Both sides- distinct species vs. phenotypic variant- lack convincing proof, though both make persuasive arguments...  yet logical conclusions have yet to be made.

The point is, a good argument cannot be made without further research and evidence to support its claims.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6327008 - 12/02/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Well, it's not simply a name... It's the curiosity of what it is that propels this discussion.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6337680 - 12/05/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Mmmmm!!!  This is getting exciting!  Don't stop now!  :wink:

I talked with Stamets about this, explaining the current debate.  He said Guzman and Peter were looking into it as far as he knew, and I told him that MJ said that Guzman thinks they are cyanofibrillosa so far.  I told him also, about Auweia's casual mating experiment, and he said it would be an interesting experiment to try mating the SF psilocybes with cyanofibrillosa and cyanescens on agar in petri dishes, each about 10 times for each species, and see what results.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6339204 - 12/06/06 12:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, well what you describe could still be indicative of a phenotypic variant common to SF, such as a strain.
What makes a strain of cubensis different from another?? They are the same species, and can mate, however, evident differences persist throughout certain regions.

Not saying it is anything... just making suggestions.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6339291 - 12/06/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Mhmm... but you've seen the P.E. strain??? Well, it is a selectively bred strain, which cannot multiply in outdoor conditions, due to it's propensity for sterility. However, that is a good example, that HUGE variation can be achieved, and chance may not favour the emergence of an unlikely strain, however, coincidence does occur, and can spread, if against the odds, circumstance supports it.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6342791 - 12/06/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
no disrespect but wtf does guzman have to do with anything??? Why do people get all excite4d whne his name is brought up and what has he done lately




He is the leading expert on the genus Psilocybe.

http://www.stainblue.com/guzman.htm


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6343092 - 12/07/06 12:39 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if the cyclone effect is consistent with the Bay Area Psilocybe shown in Paul Stamets book, or if it is it appears sporadically... I suspect it is incidental, but I am not sure.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6343978 - 12/07/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
Quote:

tahoe said:
no disrespect but wtf does guzman have to do with anything??? Why do people get all excite4d whne his name is brought up and what has he done lately




He is the leading expert on the genus Psilocybe.

http://www.stainblue.com/guzman.htm




Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Tahoe, this is who Dr. Gaston Guzman is!

Quote:


Dr. Gaston Guzman -- mycologist, taxonomist, explorer, author and anthropologist -- is the world's foremost authority on the genus Psilocybe, having discovered and authored more than half of the known neurotropic species. He also is a leading authority on the indigenous peoples of Mexico, and their divinatory and medicinal uses of the sacred mushrooms.

Dr. Guzman was born in Xalapa, Veracruz, in 1932. His interest in mycology began in 1955 while a graduate student at the National Polytechnic Institute, in Mexico City. Up to that point the Institute's collection of fungi had been poorly maintained and he resolved to begin cataloging an entire new collection of specimens. In the summer of that year, Dr. Guzman conducted his first field work in the forests near Mexico City, where he found myriad species about which little was known. This inspired him to declare mushrooms as the topic of his professional thesis and he vowed to someday write a book on Mexican mushrooms.

In 1957, Dr. Guzman was invited on an expedition -- led by noted mycologist Dr. Rolf Singer -- to study neurotropic mushrooms in the Huautla de Jimenez region. Dr. Guzman was already familiar with the region, having collected there in 1953 (while in the employ of Syntex Laboratories) medicinal plant specimens belonging to the Dioscorea genus. Dr. Guzman had read with enthusiasm R. Gordon Wasson's Life article published in 1957 and he was delighted to have the opportunity to return to the Huautla region to study the hongos mágico. On the last day of the expedition, Dr. Singer and Guzman met Wasson in a small village near Huautla; Wasson was in the region conducting research and it was from this chance meeting that he and Dr. Guzman formed a close friendship that would last nearly thirty years. This meeting also resulted in Dr. Guzman's later friendship with Wasson's colleagues Roger Heim and Richard Evans Schultes.

In 1958, through his Indian contacts, Dr. Guzman learned of the Aztec word teotlaquilnanacatl. This word is used by the Indians of the Sierra de Puebla region to describe the sacred mushrooms; translated it means "the mushrooms that paint" (referring to the mushrooms' visionary properties). This is noteworthy because the Spanish chronicler Bernardino de Sahagun in 1555 stated that the Aztec name for the sacred mushrooms was teonanacatl. However, it seems that the word teonanacatl is no longer used by the Indians [Guzman, letter to author 1999]. Also in 1958, Dr. Guzman published his first paper on a blue-staining Psilocybe species and the first paper on the ecology of neurotropic fungi. This work was followed by other papers in which he revised the known hallucinogenic species of Mexico and described new habitats and species. The professional thesis of Dr. Guzman, presented in 1959, fulfilled the requirements for a degree in biology. The subject of the thesis was a study of the known neurotropic fungi of Mexico, their taxonomy, cultural uses, ecology and distribution. The thesis was reviewed by a professional jury and Dr. Guzman was awarded an honorary distinction. Dr. Guzman dedicated his thesis to his teacher Rolf Singer, as well as to Wasson, Heim and Teofilo Herrera, who all aided him in conducting his research.

In 1979, Dr. Guzman, along with Stephen H. Pollock, described a new entheogenic mushroom found by them in the Naolinco region of the State of Veracruz. This species was named Psilocybe wassoniorum in honor of Wasson and his wife Valentina.

Dr. Guzman's masterpiece, a world monograph titled The Genus Psilocybe: A Systematic Revision of the Known Species Including the History, Distribution and Chemistry of the Hallucinogenic Species, which he began in 1957, was published in 1983 by J. Cramer of Vaduz, Germany. This definitive work was made possible through a grant Dr. Guzman received from The Guggenheim Memorial Foundation of New York, on the recommendation of Richard Evans Schultes.

In 1993, Dr. Guzman, together with mycologists Victor M. Bandala and John W. Allen, described a new neurotropic mushroom, Psilocybe samuiensis, from Koh Samui, Thailand. This is the first blue-staining mushroom reported from Thailand and is the first species of the Section Mexicana to be reported from outside the Americas. Also described by Dr. Guzman were several new bluing species from Australasia: Psilocybe australiana, Psilocybe eucalypta, Psilocybe tasmaniana and Psilocybe aucklandii (the first three in collaboration with the preeminent Scottish mycologist Dr. Roy Watling, the last with Chris King of New Zealand). From South America, Dr. Guzman described more than ten neurotropic species including Psilocybe brasiliensis, Psilocybe columbiana, Psilocybe meridiensis, Psilocybe antioquiensis and others. From the U.S.A., Dr. Guzman described Psilocybe stuntzii from Washington (in collaboration with Jonathan Ott); Psilocybe tampanensis from Florida (in collaboration with Stephen Pollock); and Psilocybe weilii from Georgia (in collaboration with Fidel Tapia and mycologist Paul Stamets). Currently, Dr. Guzman has several papers in press, describing new species from Mexico, U.S.A., and Spain, as well as a checklist of all the known Psilocybe species in Europe. Also in progress (published) is a book on the worldwide distribution of the neurotropic fungi, in collaboration with John W. Allen and Jochen Gartz.

In his "Supplement to the monograph of the genus Psilocybe," published in 1995 by J. Cramer, Berlin (and dedicated to Professor Meinhard Moser), Dr. Guzman revised all the species described after his world monograph, and also described several new species and updated the keys for identification of the sections and species.








That is SO totally what I linked to! Rrgh!!


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6343982 - 12/07/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
But then when I took Gartz to meet Paul and to borrow a slide projector for our lectures at Breittenbush, He and Paul wrote the paper behind my back and published the mushroom as Psilocybe azuresecens.

I caught gartz selling postcards of my photos in Europe without informing me he was making money off of my loaned photos.  He credited the package with five images by me but there were 11 of my images inthe cards. If I had not gone to Amsterdam and saw them for sale in shops inthe city I would never have known he was doing that

I also caught him selling European versions my CD's which he was a partial co-author of with his name as first author and me as co-author on the European editions of the book.

So much for that.





This Gartz fellow sounds like a total dick wad!!! :shake:


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6344203 - 12/07/06 11:30 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, that was my guess...


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6344299 - 12/07/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

auweia said:
You know what I think?..I think a place like this will eventually become much more valuable than any of the periodic books that come out, for no other reason that it appears the changes are happening too rapidly for the books now, at least here. And at least here people can post tons of photos, rather than one or two that's been posted up until now. No such thing as too many photos, and that's never going to be worse than too few photos.

Even better, there's instantaneous peer review. What can takes years in book form takes minutes here. I'll bet those folks at the MSSF have a putie and are online. Peter's the only one I've seen here willing to post.





I agree completely, however, I give those reasons as why I find the internet as a whole, so valuable.

People at the fair kept asking me where I learned what I know, and seemed astonished when I told them that everything I know is from the internet and personal experience.
I keep in mind, however, that many of the folks at the fair are older, and not savvy with the internet.

I tell them that the internet is a great resource, because the information available is not limited, and that it can be corrected and updated in a blink of an eye, rather than taking years for some books to publish new editions.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6348932 - 12/08/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:





What were they identified as??? Some sort of Stropharia (looking at the url)??

Wow, red/orange caps with blue streaks on the stipe... magnificent.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6348935 - 12/08/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WaylitJim said:
The the photo Tahoe posted above is Psilocybe subaeruginosa, as is the one below.






Ahh!  Nevermind then!  :grin:


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6349978 - 12/09/06 02:06 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

It is possible, though, unlikely.

More probable is that Ps. subaeruginascens is the closest known species to match the unknown Bay Area Psilocybes microscopically.


--------------------


Edited by CureCat (12/09/06 02:07 AM)


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6350643 - 12/09/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:




Do you chew on your finger nails?


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6351053 - 12/09/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WaylitJim said:
Quote:

CureCat said:
It is possible, though, unlikely.

More probable is that Ps. subaeruginascens is the closest known species to match the unknown Bay Area Psilocybes microscopically.




I originally thought I found annulated azurescens, but since they're not azures, they very well may be a new species. Although it's always possible subaeruginascens spores traveled to CA, we have many visitors from overseas.



Yes, it IS possible, but still... I'd say it is unlikely, as we certainly get more visitors from georgia and texas, yet the Bay Area isn't popping up with weilii and cubensis.

I mean, it is possible that a visitor from Asia brought over some subaeruginascen spores on their clothes, and the spores just happened to land on some woodchips, and were able to germinate.... But then again, I think it is more likely that it is a relative yet distinct species.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6351103 - 12/09/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
the wind blows from the west, georgias and texas air would never make it here




Quote:

CureCat said:
we certainly get more visitors from georgia and texas, yet the Bay Area isn't popping up with weilii and cubensis.




--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Tracking the Historical Psilocybe cyanofriscosa WorkmanV 4,035 17 01/17/08 01:01 AM
by Strophariaceae
* The Genus Psilocybe: An Update for Anno and all Members
( 1 2 all )
mjshroomer 5,994 28 01/24/07 05:51 AM
by pscyanescens
* My patch of unidentified bay area psilocybes Quankus 4,333 12 01/14/06 07:49 PM
by sui
* Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa hunt zorkieo 658 0 12/13/06 11:52 PM
by zorkieo
* Psilocybe Friscosa thread
( 1 2 3 all )
deathcapcubensis 11,058 48 11/06/06 06:35 AM
by Zen Peddler
* Possible psilocybe azurescens =) farmboybluez 11,684 16 09/20/17 03:08 PM
by perkysmiles
* I found some psilocybes, but not sure which ones..
( 1 2 all )
YouInfoIt 8,516 26 11/01/02 05:49 AM
by JovialLeprechaun
* sympatric specification in the genus Psilocybe
( 1 2 all )
Zen Peddler 5,465 30 07/29/05 04:17 AM
by Zen Peddler

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
61,026 topic views. 4 members, 12 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.