Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Total freedom.
    #6317849 - 11/29/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Is freedom total awareness? According to Don Juan it is. This goal of the "new seers" is very different from the sorcerers of the past tradition. A warrior is preparing himself for awareness and total freedom.

"Only a bell and a bird break the stillness...
It seems that the two talk with the setting sun.
Golden colored silence, the afternoon is made of crystals.
A roving purity sways the cool trees, and beyond all that,
a transparent river dreams that trampling over pearls
it breaks loose
and flows into infinity."

______________________________________

Don Juan and Don Genaro came to my side and looked at me with an expression of surprise.
..."What are we really doing Don Juan?" I asked. "Is it possible that warriors are only preparing themselves for death?"
"No way," he said, gently patting my shoulder. " Warriors prepare themselves to be aware, and full awareness comes to them only when there is no more self-importance left in them. Only when they are nothing do they become everything."


The warriors work centers around decreasing his or her massive self obsession. We are all (as far as I can see) in the same boat here. Those who say they have little or none of it are the worse cases. To be self obsessed is to obscure all things that make up eternity and encase oneself in a cozy (and boring) little reflective single view, as if looking in a mirror and describing that as everything there is to see. Eternity is too much for most of us. The human form is a cozy cocoon that we strive to remain encased in. To face eternity alone is the ultimate goal of the "new seers". Humanity will carry on without them. They are no longer concerned with the ups and downs of the human cultural program.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318317 - 11/29/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds like an ideal.

Live life and fuck it, then you will be free. Know that the only boundries that exist are the ones you choose to stay entraped by. Don't stress man, there is no cosmic battle going on with eternity at stake. Don't allow egotistical maniacs who believe they are special manipulate you into being a drone. You see one time I went on a trip with cloning,(this was when I was all religious sort of) and I thought about god, and how he is always trying to mold us, how our goal in life is to be like god, a god clone. You see once god is dead, gone what have you, he is selfish, he still whishes to exist, but how? If he can get us to be his drone clones. Our parents do it to us ( "Oh My God Im Becomeing My Mother!"), our friends do it to us, and egotistical maniacs are the most sadistic.

Be alive, partake, party, Do not hold back, fear nothing, know that you are beutifull, everything is going as planed, live life and fuck it!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318322 - 11/29/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

This sounds like Extreme Being to me.  :wink:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318323 - 11/29/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

"when shall I be free?
when I shall cease to be..."
-Shpongle

no "total freedom" until death - of the ego, at least, if not of the bodily prison itself


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Lion]
    #6318330 - 11/29/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It seems unrealistic to believe that we can function without an ego. Why not cultivate a flexible, helpful ego structure? The hostile intention of killing the ego is likely to create an intimate enemy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6318346 - 11/29/06 10:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
It seems unrealistic to believe that we can function without an ego. Why not cultivate a flexible, helpful ego structure? The hostile intention of killing the ego is likely to create an intimate enemy.


when the ego ceases to exist in the present moment... when one can relate to no sense of self that is separate from Self, total freedom is achieved (in my experience). i'm not talking about waging war on the ego - surely a benign ego structure is beneficial in this life. but with such a structure one may never be absolutely free, because ego implies separateness, and separateness implies boundaries and limitations


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Lion]
    #6318355 - 11/29/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

But does the ego actually cease to exist whilst we are embodied, or does it just take a coffee break?  :wink:

I think that we notice the limitations of our established ego structure when we temporarily suspend its' function, and this can provide us with motivation to cultivate a more flexible, cooperative everyday relationship with this structure.

I have serious doubts as to the possibility (or desireability) of eliminating the ego, however.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6318387 - 11/29/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
But does the ego actually cease to exist whilst we are embodied, or does it just take a coffee break?  :wink:

I think that we notice the limitations of our established ego structure when we temporarily suspend its' function, and this can provide us with motivation to cultivate a more flexible, cooperative everyday relationship with this structure.

I have serious doubts as to the possibility (or desireability) of eliminating the ego, however.


"cease to exist" was a bad turn of phrase, I agree.  I've had the ego - well, "I've", that's a bit ridiculous isn't it? - take a long drive to a 24-hour Starbucks in upper Mongolia, though...

total freedom, to me, is the ability to do anything and be everything - what else could that 'total' mean?  and one cannot be everything while one is busy being someone.  as for freedom after this life... pure conjecture is all I've got to offer...  :tongue:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318392 - 11/29/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

We cant live without limitations and we can't live with them. We are part of the whole and separated from it. We were born into duality but we may leave them behind by finding the truth beyond that.
Once achieved, pure existence with a grain of intent makes the way, imho. But we always and never are free, while our spirit resists (edit: damned, wrong word, I meant 'resides') in our body.

A good picture is oneself floating in superspace with freedom in all dimensions and directions. One is absolute free, but one has nothing to grasp, nothing to move.
Once we get ground under our feet, we gain one way of moving around, left, right, forward and back, so we get more freedom through relations for our movement, but in the same time, we loose one dimension of our freedom (up and down) and are 'limited' to the bottom :smile:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (11/29/06 10:50 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6318417 - 11/29/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

These are goals of seers and some warriors, the average man rarely if ever thinks about this and isn't willing to do anything even if.

Most all of us fall into this catagory and even those who would try (like myself) usually will never have the personal power to accomplish this goal if it were possible. I personally still see value in the warriors way.

As far as ego goes that is always there as is everything else. If one were to activate all their emanations at once (the seers bid for freedom)the ego would be of no more importance than anything else and so would not be an issue.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6318418 - 11/29/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The only way our mental existence carries on in this universe is through a physical connection to this universe. A complete disconnect from this reality may only be achieved through destruction of the gateway. A killed brain, if you will.

Absolute freedom in this universe may only be characterized in terms of this universe, none of us may escape it. While even a strand exists to connect us to this universe it is impossible to know how close we are from disconnecting entirely.

There is certainly freedom in the disconnect, in death. It is freedom from life. What lies within that 'freedom' however, cannot be brought back into this universe in any factual way. Only suppositionally.



I think the freedom described here by Juan is more appropriately viewed as a maximal alignment. Rather than being free of the universe, I believe he is speaking of taking infinite responsibility.

Complete awareness is to remove all blame from responsibility and maximize your potential to influence the future. Through an entirely selfless vessel you will be minimally inhibited in recognizing and accommodating the forces which flow through you and influence the universe.

As you become more aware you will become more able to be comfortable with and understanding of these forces. I do not believe you will ever be free from them, I believe living in this universe is to have choice thrust upon you, regardless of situation.

But to become maximally aware, is to become selfless, is to align what IS best with what YOU want, and so you will never need a selfish act for personal gratification.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6318433 - 11/29/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think the freedom described here by Juan is more appropriately is more appropriately viewed as a maximal alignment. Rather than being free of the universe, I believe he is speaking of taking infinite responsibility.

Complete awareness is to remove all blame from responsibility and maximize your potential to influence the future. Through an entirely selfless vessel you will be minimally inhibited in recognizing and accommodating the forces which flow through you and influence the universe.

As you become more aware you will become more able to be comfortable with and understanding of these forces. I do not believe you will ever be free from them, I believe living in this universe is to have choice thrust upon you, regardless of situation.

But to become maximally aware, is to become selfless, is to align what IS best with what YOU want, and so you will never need a selfish act for personal gratification.


While I like and agree with some of what you are saying here this seems to bear little resemblence to what DJ is talking about. Read again "The Fire from Within" and you will see what I am refering to.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6318528 - 11/29/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The hostile intention of killing the ego is likely to create an intimate enemy.




The idea, as far as I can tell, is to not annihilate your ego, rather to see it for what it truly is: not intrinsically existent and transient. Once you see the ego for what it truly is, then I don't really think it's much of a problem anymore. I think that is what is meant by transcending the ego.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Lion]
    #6318546 - 11/29/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
"when shall I be free?
when I shall cease to be..."
-Shpongle

no "total freedom" until death - of the ego, at least, if not of the bodily prison itself




Fucking amazing song!

But, I disagree with you on two points. First, that there is no total freedom until the ego dies. I don't see freedom as some far off event. I see it as the reality of this very moment! But we, as humans, are confused about reality. We don't understand what's going on. We may understand it to some degree intellectually, but I don't think we really feel it, really know it down to our very bones. I don't think the ego must be destroyed to achieve freedom, rather we must understand it for what it is, and not allow ourselves to become ensnared by its tricks and delusions.

Secondly, what would the body be a prison to?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6318563 - 11/29/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Dude I love my ego bro, I want to cultivate it, I want to propagate it, I want it to be the best it can be, cuz its me.

After my body dies, I will never have another chance to be Todd William Fulton agian, NEVER.

So I am not going to wast my time trying to figure out what happens after death, cuz it will happen, or trying to remain in a state of ego loss, which is like a vegatative state when viewed from outside your body, sure you could be flying with angels, but fuck man, I want some bitches to fuck, some exctacy to take, and an ego to ENJOY.

And I totally agree with ExplosiveMango, ITS FUCKING GREAT WHEN YOU CAN JUST START LAUGHING, just because you know you can, ITS FUCKING GREAT WHEN YOU CAN JUST START DANCING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MALL, just because you know you can.

Bro the only moment in this life that will EVER matter, is the moment your lying on your death bed. I want to be able to SMILE as Im dieing, just because I know I can.

LIVE LIFE AND FUCK IT.

Edited by Mr_Spliff (11/29/06 11:49 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #6318685 - 11/29/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LIVE LIFE AND FUCK IT.




Interesting path. But what happens if the pursuit of your passions causes suffering in others?

What would happen if everyone on the planet adopted that maxim? What if everyone said just live life and fuck it? I imagine that very quickly there would be wars and fighting and eventually a state of chaos. If everyone did what they wanted, then people would clearly be interfering with others' pursuit of their passions and desires. How well would that work out?

Quote:

Dude I love my ego bro




Loving your ego is just fine, in fact that's wonderful. Just so long as you realize what it really is.

Quote:

I want to cultivate it, I want to propagate it, I want it to be the best it can be, cuz its me.




This indicates to me that maybe you don't understand what the ego really is. It sounds like think of it as actually being real. It sounds like you think you really exist. This is what is referred to as confusion or even sometimes ignorance.

What is the ego made of?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6318756 - 11/29/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe I don't fully comprehend what an ego is but this is what Ive grown to think of it...

My ego is this little guy I see when I ( I being the key word) look at myself. The recreation I create of myself. The little man inside my head.

And how the hell do I NOT exist? I may be a dream, but its real.

What is the ego made of?

According to me... Its made up of your ideas, thoughts, and preconceptions you have of yourself, like people with anorexia, they see a fat person in the mirror, they look down and see fat. No the ego is not real, to me its what you think of yourself, and what you think of yourself sends off "vibs" (mystical or no) to others and they respond to those vibs, I want my ego to be the best it can be to maximize my fun here as what I know to be ME.

Of coarse I've always been kind to people, I know I should be more specific in my maxim, but you should of seen the look on those peoples faces when I just started dancing, maybe it should go like this...

LIVE LIFE, HAVE FUN, AND DON"T WORRY.

And if you find it fun to harm others then your a sick mother fucker.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #6318782 - 11/29/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think you have the correct conception of ego here. It's ego inflation and massive self-importance that are problems in living IMO. This thread isn't really about having or not having an ego. It's about what stands in ones way of getting the most life offers. For the average human, who IMO is sleeping, the answer will be different than for the would be seer. Maybe personal power decided which camp one falls into.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318803 - 11/29/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe personal power decided which camp one falls into.




I don't attribute much significance to personal power. Seeking personal power can directly or indirectly reinforce some people's self-importance. As far as I can tell, personal power arises naturally with meditation.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318806 - 11/29/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

How does this have anything to do with me?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #6318813 - 11/29/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

How?  :tongue: You are posting in this thread and you are a human being. Beyond that it's up to you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318818 - 11/29/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It was kind of a joke, as we were speaking of ego inflation and such, but oh well. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6318820 - 11/29/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

Maybe personal power decided which camp one falls into.




I don't attribute much significance to personal power. Seeking personal power can directly or indirectly reinforce some people's self-importance. As far as I can tell, personal power arises naturally with meditation.




Personal power has nothing to do with self-importance except to represent its opposite, so we are not talking about the same thing. Mediatation may have a beneficial effect on storing personal power although I have rarely seen this in meditators to any great extent.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/29/06 01:30 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318848 - 11/29/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

My conception of freedom currently for what it is worth is the ability to transcend individuality while reamining an individual.

Samadhi or jnana or something to the extent of how Ram Dass put it.... "you sat in front of the candle until you were the candle".

I believe that this has to be taken in baby steps because though it is possible with drugs, it is such a giant leap forward that you will eventually fall back down.

So to me it would to some extent be omniscience relative to the human consciousness fixated upon planet Earth. Then the world is your playground.

I think it would be remarkable to look into a person and look so deeply that you completely merge with them, and it would work miracles for healing powers.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (11/29/06 01:40 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #6318850 - 11/29/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

My ego is this little guy I see when I ( I being the key word) look at myself.




The word "I" is just a grammatical convention used in conversation, but it does not necessarily reflect reality. Who or what is it that is looking at yourself?

Quote:

And how the hell do I NOT exist? I may be a dream, but its real.




You do not exist. You are merely a collection of different parts and systems that came together because all of the myriad necessary causes and conditions came together. You are not permanent: you are in a constant state of flux, so you cannot in any way say that there is some "you" that is constant throughout the flux. There is a sense of continuity, yes, but that does not mean that there IS some permanent, continuous thing.

To really exist, you would have to arise completely independently of all causes and conditions (no mother, no father, no zygotic fertilization, etc etc). But you didn't. You're simply the result of a vast number of causes and conditions. And as soon as the conditions supporting your body change, and they will change, "you" will no longer be. Your body will be eaten by worms and maggots and you will enter the planetary ecosystem (not that you ever left, actually).

Quote:

what I know to be ME.




I think that what you 'know' to be you is simply not accurate. You can know something that is static. For instance, you can know that a piece of paper is a piece of paper, until it is burned or whatever. But you are dynamic. Your mental processes, what you describe as your ego ("your ideas, thoughts, and preconceptions") are constantly changing. You can think you know yourself, but that's an illusion.

Quote:

you should of seen the look on those peoples faces when I just started dancing




:grin: I wish I could have!

Quote:

LIVE LIFE, HAVE FUN, AND DON"T WORRY.




That seems like a fairly reasonable maxim. But it seems like it leaves open the opportunity to suffer. If you are constantly seeking out fun, if you desire fun, then you will suffer when you don't have fun. You will suffer when the fun you are having ends. Etc.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6318855 - 11/29/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Alright, how do you define personal power?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6318863 - 11/29/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Alright, how do you define personal power?




Personal power is the ability to use intent. Depending on how well one can use will and intent reflects how much personal power one has.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/29/06 01:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6318894 - 11/29/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:First, that there is no total freedom until the ego dies. I don't see freedom as some far off event. I see it as the reality of this very moment! But we, as humans, are confused about reality. We don't understand what's going on. We may understand it to some degree intellectually, but I don't think we really feel it, really know it down to our very bones. I don't think the ego must be destroyed to achieve freedom


Well, honestly, I'm unattached to what I said earlier - after all, I'm not the same 'I' who made that post a few hours ago  :wink: - and I actually totally agree with you.  The present moment isn't the Sum, it is the Only - if it can be viewed with unbounded awareness.  The body is a prison only in the sense that it inhibits movement and expression on this physical plane.  My sense of self is attached to my body on some level, something I think is true with all people, and my body is not free to become whatever I desire it to be.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff
Dreamer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Undesclosed Location (its...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Lion]
    #6318955 - 11/29/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

OH god. when I say I you know what I mean and I know what you mean.

And we could go on and on about the philosophies of existance.

Does the universe exist? To say no because it consists of parts would be an... I don't know the word so Ill use overstatment, taking things a bit too far, I dont know maybe radical or extreame, and still true yet untrue, you know? Its like taking sides and niether is correct.

I agree that a part could never understand its whole, I will never understand the universe as I am a part of it, and that when I say I, I am not my whole, so I am not I, and when I say I, I am only speaking of the subclass I A2b or whatever, which is my ego, you know? Me.

I understand the concept of people changing and how I am not the same person I was a year ago, or to an extreame last moment, I know, I can feel it. New thoughts and ideas have come my way, new cells have grown, new neural connections have formed, but is that all I am?

I don't even think scientists can tell us what or who we are, let alone am I gonna let you tell me with such firmness, with so much sureness that I don't exist.

Does Pegasis exist?

Edited by Mr_Spliff (11/29/06 02:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #6319229 - 11/29/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: Fantastic! By all means then, please see for yourself!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFatBath
Turtle Wannabe
Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 89
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: dblaney]
    #6321593 - 11/30/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

this thread makes me real antzy. Like I wanna drone off this poetic ideology, but I gotta read your words. So I hustle, kind of miss the point, but someone has a point, and I wanna say something, but there are more words to read. Slooooww. doooowwwwn. Smell the roses, porkrhine.

Now, I constantly degrade my self worth because of narcisism, but then that just ups the self-obsession. I remember Osho talking about in my tantra book that the ego is surrendured, and you must cultivate it, otherwise you will just have a so-so surrender. I love tantra a whole lot.

Most of the time I just read, and it's comes in sort of, "this fella sure don't know much. uses perty words though." and on and on. Usually trying to feel superior, I'm special, can see through all you wannabes. eh, whatever.

You know, it seems laziness is the prime enemy in my life. sure there is fear, but it's only laziness that you don't face it. I'm lazy, so I nestle into my habit groove. Very simple, and very enjoyable to break it, why not?

"and he whispers up to me in his life of tragedy,
'I will not grow, oh when will I be free?'
and you a parasite, just find another host.."
"parasitic dripped in oil, crying 'freedom!'"~SoaD

Overseriousness is quite a killer. Morbidity and obsession go hand in hand seems to be. Light heartedness, oh sometimes, so sweet. Tickle me fancy, dear maiden of cyber verbosity. This forum is but a supple vagina, and I am just and inadequate phallus. I must rise to the occasion. Persevere past the seeming breaking point, yes?

I wrote a silly poem the other day.

The miser of his misery
Exhonerates piss-on-me
Rejects the fruit of fantasy
Claiming dreams wont let him see
Claiming dreams wont set him free

Striving past the dregery
A Whole outside the empty sea
The shackled slave will let it be

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: FatBath]
    #6321793 - 11/30/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

this thread makes me real antzy

cool


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Total freedom. [Re: FatBath]
    #6321840 - 11/30/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Nice


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleClean
the lense
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6336095 - 12/05/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Warriors prepare themselves to be aware, and full awareness comes to them only when there is no more self-importance left in them. Only when they are nothing do they become everything."




is the message that total awareness includes awareness that the self really is nothing alone but an amalgam of everything?

Quote:

It's about what stands in ones way of getting the most life offers.




"i'm not good enough"

that's a big one
how could everything that is not be good enough?  :tongue2:

i think DJ Q-Bert said it pretty well in the movie Scratch (i'm going from memory here) "ultimately everything is just a huge ball of energy"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6337754 - 12/05/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

WARNING: Huge Post  :laugh:
Good points. The Advaitist (Non-Dualist) Sri Ramana Maharshi always insisted that the ego had to go entirely, while other more moderate adherents of Advaita said pretty much what you've implied. The ego, psychologically taken, is simply our vantage point. Our 'embodied-ego' is the vantage point of our bodies. It is the crudest level of egohood.

Then, as philosopher-psychologist William James said:

" A tolerably unanimous opinion ranges the different selves of which a man may be 'seized and possessed,' and the consequent different orders of his self-regard, in an hierarchical scale, with the bodily self at the bottom, the spiritual self at top, and the extracorporeal material selves and the various social selves between."

Lots of people would consider their clothing to be an 'extracorporeal self' as suggested by the expression: "Clothes make the man." Our social selves are comprised of the roles that we play in life (mother, daughter, wife, businesswoman, student, etc.) and how the physical body/embodied-ego dresses itself and carries itself as an actor on the stage of life. The psychological selves are more subtle yet and the most subtle psychological self it the sense or notion of 'I' which Yoga calls Ahamkara. Ahamkara belongs to all of the aforementioned selves which together form the individual, the 'Jiva' or 'Jivatma[n].'

Please forgive this perhaps boring explication, it is not intended to be a lecture, but in agreeing with your suggestion, the metaphysician in me wants to clarify how we can attenuate our being the Jivatman, and favor being the Atman - the Being that we Realize is not separate from GOD (Brahman, to be consistent, as Atman=Brahman).

Only the 'spiritual self' is unconditioned. The other selves are completely conditioned/programmed. Aldous Huxley said that our mind is "amphibias" - that it can choose to identify with body and with spirit. To the extent that we choose to identify spirit, our active identification with the psychosocial selves diminishes. Our lives simplify in terms of the roles and social games we play. We need not cloister ourselves or live in a cave like renunciants do, living radically simple lives of contemplation - even that is "drama" according to Ram Dass, but there is a shift in emphasis when one lives for 'spiritual self,' for GOD over and against living for 'ego.' Either one increasingly eliminates aspects of psychosocial selfhood, or one learns to 'consecrate' every action to GOD, to Being [aware], to living in the Present (or Presence of GOD).

The latter is a serious concession to the process of spiritual growth. Yogi Baba Hari Das said:

"The yoga of householder is a very hard yoga. Not for everyone. Be householder saints." [Footnote reads: "The yoga sadhana of householder yogis is to live alone among people and to be in desires without desire."].

It seems to me that this type of Yoga belongs more to Karma Yoga with the devotional element (to family as well) of Bhakti Yoga. Now, I have been using Yoga terminology whether or not anyone actually identifies her/himself as a Yogi because I think that Yoga psychology best describes these ego-GOD conundrums. Radical ego loss as suggested by Yoga is characterized by the highest state of Samadhi called Sahaj Samadhi wherein one still enacts social roles, howsoever limited - one is not rigidly inactive as in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, sitting 'catatonic' in lotus position - but one is not living the usual American life.

These states belong more properly to Jnana Yoga or Raja Yoga practices and their corresponding contemplative and renunciant lifestyles. Jung said in regard to these that anyone who is practicing with a telephone in their abode is just fooling themselves. We cannot expect radical egolessness in early or midlife according to Yogic theories of human development. Hindu thought recognizes stages of life: student, householder, renunciant. Young American or European people discussing this advanced condition need to do do within a context of human development which clearly elaborates how to adjust the psychosocial selves that are appropriate to each stage, progressively renouncing those qualities on the way to full ego death including death of the embodied-ego - physical death!

Lots of 'loss' takes place in the elderly without corresponding gains in 'ecstatic Realization,' but we can still see 'decompensations' of the ego (lack of personal grooming/hygiene, withdrawal from social interactions, disinterest in virtually everything except primal hunger). Ego loss is ego death, and it is not necessarily a pretty thing (visit a nursing home!). Let's not assume that ecstatic states in youth are equivalent to Yogic enstatic states of Superconscious Samadhi at the end of our life span. Death is still a quieting before a cessation. One doesn't come away from their 'candy-flipping' high at a rave and go on about ego death and bliss and really know what ego death entails.

A moderate stance is the most sensible. It means we're learning humility, even profound humility - the first step to real holiness. Even humility is a notch of egolessness when we're egocentric to begin with.  :wink:

My apologies to anyone who actually reads this post in its entirety. I Know there is only ONE of us, so I might as well take joy in explicating for my Self! I and Thou are ONE.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAmethyst
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 132
Last seen: 17 years, 8 hours
Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6338844 - 12/05/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Total freedom is simply to have "choice"? Ultimately to choose to be free when your not, and to not be free when you are....

Limitations & boundaries brings definition, creates meaning. Therefor completely living inside the body could be seen as freedom, as this restriction offers direct perception & experience. On the other hand, total freedom is limitless, no boundaries, tho one will loose definition and have no means to be conscious of this freedom. So in contrast, for one to be truly free, one first has to be completely set in concrete, break loose and then remember what it was like...


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Amethyst]
    #6339512 - 12/06/06 04:24 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Freedom is intrinsic to life. It cannot be taken from where it exists, and cannot be given where it is not, for it is everywhere. You can choose to not feel free - but fear is the only limitation. Life isn't a condition we're stuck with, there is total freedom to it, we'll all see this soon.

I like the LIVE LIFE AND FUCK IT + DONT WORRY

Thats about perfect, you'll find every answer you want if you live like that, practiclly guaranteed. The answers will probably find you. They seem to like people who live that way!

Making others suffer? Others can only cause themselves to suffer. They are free to choose whichever experience they wish. I'd just say love everyone. If we all did this there would be no suffering.

Ego is something that hasn't figured out what it is yet and keeps coming up with lame explanations of itself. There is no ego, it is an illusion, you are everything, that's what ego keeps you from seeing.

DMT helps us see! Yes, most of us are asleep. But many are awakening. Notice how many of the same things are getting posted at sites like this? It's all coming together. Love always makes things come together. There is a lot of love between the people on these boards. Those who are ready to see everything will see everything soon.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6339514 - 12/06/06 04:28 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

i completely agree.
i call it life in boxes;

My room is a box
My house is a box
My car is a box
My job is in a box , moving boxes
My computer is a box
Do you feel safe in your boxes?
Are you actually safe in your boxes?

End of babble lol


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Ego Death]
    #6339521 - 12/06/06 04:42 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I really like that.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6340178 - 12/06/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Great post!  :smile:

Quote:

The yoga of householder is a very hard yoga. Not for everyone. Be householder saints." [Footnote reads: "The yoga sadhana of householder yogis is to live alone among people and to be in desires without desire."].




This sounds like controlled folly, and I agree that it "fits" with the idea of ego as a flexible go-between, allowing spirit/awareness to navigate material reality.  My work seems to be in the realm of being in the world without being of the world.  To fully enjoy my physical existence, not hold back from it in any measure, yet remain aware of my true nature.

Worldly activities do not come naturally to me.  I think that I was 3 years old when I first recognized that my orientaton to this world was different from that of other people.  I remember that it was crystal clear to me that enjoyment was the only important thing in this life.  Not enjoyment in the sense of fulfilling all your desires, but in the full appreciation of being alive.  Joy in flowers, joy in sunshine, joy in dancing, joy in what was happening.

No one around me, including other children, believed that this was true, and I slowly began to disavow my beliefs.  :sad:  It has taken me three decades to come back to where I began.  I have internalized so many programs about what life should be, about how to behave when life isn't what you think it should be, yet I know them to be false and baseless.  I know that I create my own suffering by enacting those programs.

Freedom was there all along.  I hid the key underneath a bushel of nonsense, but never lost it entirely.  This prison locks (and unlocks) from the inside.  :heart:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6340250 - 12/06/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Very cool perspective. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejustamonkey
Stranger

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 292
Loc: Upstairs
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6340917 - 12/06/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Total awareness implies total freedom. As you said Icelander. So in truth, when someone experiences 'ego-death' (Just the ego in another ass saving state, IMO) they aren't telling themselves the whole truth, yet again.

We must realize that, while it is possible to shift our attention, there is no way we can shift to to all places at the same time. We must be honest with ourselves, aware that to be impeccable is not to be perfect, merely to strive toward precision of thought and action without the thick tangles of this world and society to block or mislead us. In truth, IMO, believing you have no ego is lying to yourself, at any point. Realizing that it is not any more important than anything else is the goal, and learning to disassociate cultural programming and patterns from your life that you identify with. your self importance is your ego importance. Once all of it is gone, and the total awareness of the self and of the universe is gained, you, nor your past nor your future is any more important than anything else.

As humans living amongst other humans, we walk through life backward, always looking and judging what we've done, raising ourselves up or cursing ourselves based on whats behind us.

I believe the ultimate goal of the warrior is not to look at the past, nor at the future in reference of the past, but to turn around, and face infinity head on. Since that is the only thing that a warrior is truly hooked to; infinity.


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: justamonkey]
    #6340932 - 12/06/06 03:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

yes


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6341422 - 12/06/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the reply. I too am in the world without being very much of it - oftentimes much to my dismay. In my case I just could not assert my self-consciously-selfish desire to pick up girls or women. My Heart would never quite be in it and that would be misread as a yet deeper level of insincerity even by the most used and abused females. It was an inner battle that was waging of lust versus Compassion. This problem extends back to adolescence, but even before puberty and adult sexuality, I could never, no matter what, become the slightest bit interested and certainly not excited about a ballgame that was won on TV the night before. I still don't get it. It was one of many thousands of games during which pretty much the same throwing, catching and running was going on. Without the language of team sports, there seemed to be virtually no means of communication with boys my age.

Social alienation plus a decided disdain for phoniness, for lies, for what Frank Zappa sang about "plastic people," coupled with a curiosity to know what was 'Real' characterized early adolescence to young adulthood. If not for my learning disabilities in math, I might have parlayed my hobby in chemistry into an interesting career (which is the #1 occupation of INTPs). Thus, with the instinctual life of sexual conquest and competition compromised by kindness and curiosity, I always found myself on the outs, and as Alfred North Whitehead once said: "Religion is what a person does with solitude," and Meister Eckhart said "Loneliness is living in the desert in the middle of the market place."

OK, so I didn't turn out to be another Hofmann or Shulgin, but I turned away from cultivating a mind filled with the knowledge of chemical minutia, and ate certain chemicals instead which removed me further from the Prima Materia and morphed me into this alchemical mystic with a penchant for metaphysics and run-on sentences.  :blush:  Thanks for reading  :smile:.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6341569 - 12/06/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I grew up loving TV sports. It had lots to do with the miserable life I was leading and a fantasy of being great or special.

I can't get into it anymore or for a long time. It's as boring to me as counting the sheets on a roll of toilet paper, or having a casual conversation at a party. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6342090 - 12/06/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I can't get into it anymore or for a long time. It's as boring to me as counting the sheets on a roll of toilet paper




Oh man...I count the minutes until I go to the bathroom. I LOVE counting those sheets of toilet paper. I think it is very exciting!!! My whole day revolves around it! :thumbup:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342146 - 12/06/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe you should look into spectator sports?  :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342150 - 12/06/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Like watch other people count sheets of toilet paper? I'm in.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342158 - 12/06/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, you should tune in to ETPN.  :rofl:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342171 - 12/06/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

In truth I never liked watching sports, but I did like playing some of them. In my middle years I loathe competition. I like to measure my achievements only by the self.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342179 - 12/06/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, and playing sports with yourself just isn't as much fun.  :wink:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342205 - 12/06/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I can play computer games...that is real fun...but the competition is absent.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6344291 - 12/07/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

great words all.

We cannot live on earth without the use of the ego vehicle any more than we can without the use of the body or physical vehicle. However, we can temporarily escape or terminate the ego awareness, such as during a psychedelic trip or an intense orgasm.

During these moments, the ego can indeed by obliterated, shed off. Yet it always returns. The value however, is in realizing that we are Not the ego at core, and that even after the ego is obliterated, something remains.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6344335 - 12/07/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:congrats:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6345420 - 12/07/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Don't get me wrong about physical activity. I'm no armchair philosopher. I don't consider Hatha Yoga a sport, but even though I can no longer do a full Locust, and cervical arthritis prevents a Yoga Headstand that goes into an inverted full Lotus, I still practice Hatha Yoga as well as treadclimb and do resistance training - something 5 out of 7 days. I learned sport Judo and Jujitsu as a kid, and in my 30s I used to SCUBA dive. It IS the mindless competition and mind-dulling mentality (do you ever listen to football players being interviewed for example? They form sentences, sometimes even grammatically correct, but they convey nothing, no meaning at all. It's all just noise to me).

I DO appreciate a job that one loves that can make one millions of dollars, although I recently saw a very broken down Joe Namath on '60 Minutes' and he does not epitomize any kind of human development that I would aspire to. He DID get lots of women in his day (which I still can appreciate on some vestigal adolescent level), but now even his wife left him and he is fairly crippled physically (if not spiritually).

Psychiatrist Victor Frankl spoke of "Sunday Neurosis" as an existential situation of secular men wherein they vent their emotions not in revivalist church meetings but at football events live or on TV. It is an emotional release, an affiliation (with a team, not a religious denomination), a one-pointed focus on a gridiron upon which certain maneuvers are enacted (like a 'Hail Mary' play). Spectators do 'waves' as they contribute to a mass impersonal movement at live events, losing themselves in a movement greater than the individual. Others, like those at soccer events in England (and presumably elsewhere - I'm no authority here) chant in harmony. It's all ego on top of ego with the famed fortuned players manifesting the most profound egos in their respective cultures and the source of the greatest envy of others which begins in adolescence  :bowdown:.

I've tried to see sports buffs and jocks as pursuing some kind of unconscious spiritual path, but have you ever listened to someone whose mind is filled with sports trivia? I just cannot believe that there is anything about this other than a concerted attempt to AVOID Reality and the process of Awakening. It engages one's mind in transient triumphs which serve only the players who are getting rich, famous and laid. What a pathetic vicarious identification - painting your face and body and screaming maniacally in front of thousand or millions of viewers. How sad for so many males and for the women who must tolerate their men's malt beverage motivated moronic machinations!  :tongue:

Thanks for reading the rant  :blush:.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6345457 - 12/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Well having been on both sides of this. I agree with you. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6345866 - 12/07/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah...that was a good rant!


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6345870 - 12/07/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
great words all.

We cannot live on earth without the use of the ego vehicle any more than we can without the use of the body or physical vehicle. However, we can temporarily escape or terminate the ego awareness, such as during a psychedelic trip or an intense orgasm.

During these moments, the ego can indeed by obliterated, shed off. Yet it always returns. The value however, is in realizing that we are Not the ego at core, and that even after the ego is obliterated, something remains.




Anything you think you cannot do, you actually can. You are limited only by your doubts. You 'need' an ego to live in societies world. You do not need to live in their world. You do not need an ego. It returns only because you choose for it to.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Edited by cilosyb (12/07/06 08:28 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Grok]
    #6345896 - 12/07/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes Moonshoe. You can do anything and become the Flying Spaghetti Monster  if you choose. You can lose your ego and become a fairy king and go tripping up to God and tweak his nose. Yes you can. Why? Because I say so. :crazy:

What forum is this again? :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6347675 - 12/08/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Not sure what your point is on this one, but compared to some of the things ive done and experienced none of that sounds too outlandish.

What forum is this again? the same whacky and wonderful one it ever was...


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6347740 - 12/08/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry I accidently put your name in there :blush: I meant it for that other guy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6347849 - 12/08/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Personal power sounds like willpower, I'll have to read some of that stuff, the lingo sounds good.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* War is Peace! Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength!
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 2,028 23 07/03/03 01:50 PM
by Cloud9
* Safety vs. Freedom Sclorch 773 18 03/22/03 07:20 PM
by Sclorch
* Personal Freedom
( 1 2 all )
Alan Stone 2,751 20 10/07/04 01:36 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Personal Freedom
( 1 2 all )
Huehuecoyotl 2,511 27 06/30/04 09:31 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* Freedom
( 1 2 all )
TheCow 2,724 20 11/11/03 02:46 AM
by ZenGecko
* Freedom of will vs. none gribochek 2,416 16 06/12/01 10:05 AM
by gribochek
* thoughts on freedom.... CleverName 1,376 15 11/08/03 12:36 AM
by ZenGecko
* I want a life of freedom
( 1 2 all )
2Experimental 1,961 29 09/27/04 12:31 PM
by Moonshoe

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,952 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.057 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 14 queries.