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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6340250 - 12/06/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Very cool perspective. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 292
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6340917 - 12/06/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Total awareness implies total freedom. As you said Icelander. So in truth, when someone experiences 'ego-death' (Just the ego in another ass saving state, IMO) they aren't telling themselves the whole truth, yet again.

We must realize that, while it is possible to shift our attention, there is no way we can shift to to all places at the same time. We must be honest with ourselves, aware that to be impeccable is not to be perfect, merely to strive toward precision of thought and action without the thick tangles of this world and society to block or mislead us. In truth, IMO, believing you have no ego is lying to yourself, at any point. Realizing that it is not any more important than anything else is the goal, and learning to disassociate cultural programming and patterns from your life that you identify with. your self importance is your ego importance. Once all of it is gone, and the total awareness of the self and of the universe is gained, you, nor your past nor your future is any more important than anything else.

As humans living amongst other humans, we walk through life backward, always looking and judging what we've done, raising ourselves up or cursing ourselves based on whats behind us.

I believe the ultimate goal of the warrior is not to look at the past, nor at the future in reference of the past, but to turn around, and face infinity head on. Since that is the only thing that a warrior is truly hooked to; infinity.


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[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: justamonkey]
    #6340932 - 12/06/06 03:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

yes


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6341422 - 12/06/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the reply. I too am in the world without being very much of it - oftentimes much to my dismay. In my case I just could not assert my self-consciously-selfish desire to pick up girls or women. My Heart would never quite be in it and that would be misread as a yet deeper level of insincerity even by the most used and abused females. It was an inner battle that was waging of lust versus Compassion. This problem extends back to adolescence, but even before puberty and adult sexuality, I could never, no matter what, become the slightest bit interested and certainly not excited about a ballgame that was won on TV the night before. I still don't get it. It was one of many thousands of games during which pretty much the same throwing, catching and running was going on. Without the language of team sports, there seemed to be virtually no means of communication with boys my age.

Social alienation plus a decided disdain for phoniness, for lies, for what Frank Zappa sang about "plastic people," coupled with a curiosity to know what was 'Real' characterized early adolescence to young adulthood. If not for my learning disabilities in math, I might have parlayed my hobby in chemistry into an interesting career (which is the #1 occupation of INTPs). Thus, with the instinctual life of sexual conquest and competition compromised by kindness and curiosity, I always found myself on the outs, and as Alfred North Whitehead once said: "Religion is what a person does with solitude," and Meister Eckhart said "Loneliness is living in the desert in the middle of the market place."

OK, so I didn't turn out to be another Hofmann or Shulgin, but I turned away from cultivating a mind filled with the knowledge of chemical minutia, and ate certain chemicals instead which removed me further from the Prima Materia and morphed me into this alchemical mystic with a penchant for metaphysics and run-on sentences.  :blush:  Thanks for reading  :smile:.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6341569 - 12/06/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I grew up loving TV sports. It had lots to do with the miserable life I was leading and a fantasy of being great or special.

I can't get into it anymore or for a long time. It's as boring to me as counting the sheets on a roll of toilet paper, or having a casual conversation at a party. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6342090 - 12/06/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I can't get into it anymore or for a long time. It's as boring to me as counting the sheets on a roll of toilet paper




Oh man...I count the minutes until I go to the bathroom. I LOVE counting those sheets of toilet paper. I think it is very exciting!!! My whole day revolves around it! :thumbup:


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342146 - 12/06/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe you should look into spectator sports?  :lol:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342150 - 12/06/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Like watch other people count sheets of toilet paper? I'm in.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342158 - 12/06/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, you should tune in to ETPN.  :rofl:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342171 - 12/06/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

In truth I never liked watching sports, but I did like playing some of them. In my middle years I loathe competition. I like to measure my achievements only by the self.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6342179 - 12/06/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, and playing sports with yourself just isn't as much fun.  :wink:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Veritas]
    #6342205 - 12/06/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I can play computer games...that is real fun...but the competition is absent.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6344291 - 12/07/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

great words all.

We cannot live on earth without the use of the ego vehicle any more than we can without the use of the body or physical vehicle. However, we can temporarily escape or terminate the ego awareness, such as during a psychedelic trip or an intense orgasm.

During these moments, the ego can indeed by obliterated, shed off. Yet it always returns. The value however, is in realizing that we are Not the ego at core, and that even after the ego is obliterated, something remains.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6344335 - 12/07/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:congrats:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6345420 - 12/07/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Don't get me wrong about physical activity. I'm no armchair philosopher. I don't consider Hatha Yoga a sport, but even though I can no longer do a full Locust, and cervical arthritis prevents a Yoga Headstand that goes into an inverted full Lotus, I still practice Hatha Yoga as well as treadclimb and do resistance training - something 5 out of 7 days. I learned sport Judo and Jujitsu as a kid, and in my 30s I used to SCUBA dive. It IS the mindless competition and mind-dulling mentality (do you ever listen to football players being interviewed for example? They form sentences, sometimes even grammatically correct, but they convey nothing, no meaning at all. It's all just noise to me).

I DO appreciate a job that one loves that can make one millions of dollars, although I recently saw a very broken down Joe Namath on '60 Minutes' and he does not epitomize any kind of human development that I would aspire to. He DID get lots of women in his day (which I still can appreciate on some vestigal adolescent level), but now even his wife left him and he is fairly crippled physically (if not spiritually).

Psychiatrist Victor Frankl spoke of "Sunday Neurosis" as an existential situation of secular men wherein they vent their emotions not in revivalist church meetings but at football events live or on TV. It is an emotional release, an affiliation (with a team, not a religious denomination), a one-pointed focus on a gridiron upon which certain maneuvers are enacted (like a 'Hail Mary' play). Spectators do 'waves' as they contribute to a mass impersonal movement at live events, losing themselves in a movement greater than the individual. Others, like those at soccer events in England (and presumably elsewhere - I'm no authority here) chant in harmony. It's all ego on top of ego with the famed fortuned players manifesting the most profound egos in their respective cultures and the source of the greatest envy of others which begins in adolescence  :bowdown:.

I've tried to see sports buffs and jocks as pursuing some kind of unconscious spiritual path, but have you ever listened to someone whose mind is filled with sports trivia? I just cannot believe that there is anything about this other than a concerted attempt to AVOID Reality and the process of Awakening. It engages one's mind in transient triumphs which serve only the players who are getting rich, famous and laid. What a pathetic vicarious identification - painting your face and body and screaming maniacally in front of thousand or millions of viewers. How sad for so many males and for the women who must tolerate their men's malt beverage motivated moronic machinations!  :tongue:

Thanks for reading the rant  :blush:.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6345457 - 12/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Well having been on both sides of this. I agree with you. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGrok
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6345866 - 12/07/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah...that was a good rant!


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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OfflineGrok
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6345870 - 12/07/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
great words all.

We cannot live on earth without the use of the ego vehicle any more than we can without the use of the body or physical vehicle. However, we can temporarily escape or terminate the ego awareness, such as during a psychedelic trip or an intense orgasm.

During these moments, the ego can indeed by obliterated, shed off. Yet it always returns. The value however, is in realizing that we are Not the ego at core, and that even after the ego is obliterated, something remains.




Anything you think you cannot do, you actually can. You are limited only by your doubts. You 'need' an ego to live in societies world. You do not need to live in their world. You do not need an ego. It returns only because you choose for it to.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Edited by cilosyb (12/07/06 08:28 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Grok]
    #6345896 - 12/07/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes Moonshoe. You can do anything and become the Flying Spaghetti Monster  if you choose. You can lose your ego and become a fairy king and go tripping up to God and tweak his nose. Yes you can. Why? Because I say so. :crazy:

What forum is this again? :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Total freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #6347675 - 12/08/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Not sure what your point is on this one, but compared to some of the things ive done and experienced none of that sounds too outlandish.

What forum is this again? the same whacky and wonderful one it ever was...


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Everything I post is fiction.

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