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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Swami]
    #634292 - 05/17/02 10:11 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

What!!!!
You mean there isn't ANY gold backin' my wad???



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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Sclorch]
    #634356 - 05/17/02 11:07 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Right...like gold's worth that much more than paper. It still only has the value we place on it. The dollar IS backed by gold...and aluminum, and paper, and silicon, and fried chicken, and heroin,and porno, and information, services and ideals.



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This space for rent

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Swami]
    #634437 - 05/17/02 12:40 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I worked for ten years in three universities, during which time I not only played their game, but educated myself in the process. I also had sex for the first time and later met my first wife within the school experience. The intellectual and spiritual growth that occurred as my plans for a career in medicine gave way to degrees in philosophy, theology and psychology, could (and will) fill a book. Ten years of life experience that centered on the academic process, and the means to support that process speaks for itself. The internships, bad jobs, state licensure and national certificate exams that followed the post-doc, student-poverty state, all determined by those academic degrees, determined my occupational life for an additional 19 years. My occupation, in turn, has allowed me to learn from 2 decades of clinical experience.

Now, unless you're just being ridiculous, it is obvious that one gets out of life what one puts into it. A $30.00 false document symbolizes nothing at all accept an attempt to get something for nothing. False credentials for deceivers is an unethical and immoral enterprise, yet in our society it is a matter of caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. In the past 2 weeks in Miami, we've had a charlatan practicing dentistry without a license (or an education), and someone injecting botex into women's lips illegally. I have acquired certain clinical skills by education and practice, but I know my limitations. Would YOU go to a quack if you needed some kind of treatment?

I left seminary with a non-ordinational degree 'cause I didn't want to be a Methodist minister. If people want to 'marry' in neon chapels in Las Vegas, or by phoney clergy, it's their choice. It'll no doubt be a phoney marriage - if that's what they want. As for me - I'm in the process of realization - of becoming real - kinda like the Velveteen Rabbit.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Anonymous

Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #634448 - 05/17/02 12:49 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

so then what defines a marriage for you? even if one of these phoney ministers does marry you, it is still legal... and that's all that matters for a lot of people. i for one don't need to have a church marry me in "the eyes of god" or whatever... in my book, the eyes of god would recognize your marriage by the love and sacrifice that is shared, not by what the law or the church has to say.

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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/07/98
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #634708 - 05/17/02 05:33 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Markos:
"Now, unless you're just being ridiculous, it is obvious that one gets out of life what one puts into it. A $30.00 false document symbolizes nothing at all accept an attempt to get something for nothing."

How it is a "false document"?? I see what you're saying, but to compare the credentials needed to be a doctor, putting someone's life at risk by cutting them open hardly relates to being a minister. I've put the better part of my life into studying religions and spirituality. I certainly wasn't out to "get something for nothing." I see my role as putting people in touch with the spirit of God inside of them. After that, I've done my work and they are guided from within.

Anyone can minister to another- that person may be a businessman, a janitor.. a carpenter?
Did John the Baptist have a degree in theology? I don't think so.

You know all those catholic priest pedophiles in the news today?
Well guess what? .. They all had the official sanction to practice religion.




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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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All clergy are phoney. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #634795 - 05/17/02 06:47 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)


The ULC's doctrine is simple: be open minded about all religions. How many years of school does it take to figure that one out?

Ministership in the ULC is free the $30 is just for some unessential supplies and a nice piece of paper. You don't need a piece of paper to practice religion. You don't even need any to be ordained to baptize people, or smear butter on their nostrils in the name of God. The only power you gain is the right to perform weddings.

You don't need to know anything to perform a wedding except where the county clerk's office is. They'll tell you everything you need to know in 5 minutes. If you can fill out a form, you are as capable as any other human being.

The validity of the mariage isn't in the minister's hands. That lies solely in the hands of the married couple.

Utah, and New york have tried to pass legislation that would prevent ULC members from performing weddings, but neither have had any luck, nor should they.

No one, no matter how "qualified" they are has the right to declare what is and is not a valid religion, and religion can not validate, or invalidate a marriage.

Most ULC ministers only wed freinds, and are not in any kind of business.

In reply to:

A $30.00 false document symbolizes nothing at all accept an attempt to get something for nothing.




It's getting something that is already yours for nothing.



I'm still working on that "real" thing myself. So far, so good.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Jellric]
    #635112 - 05/18/02 05:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

True, anyone 'so empowered,' can minister. But a diploma mill simply is an attempt to defraud people. Years ago 60 Minutes did a great expose on such. I remember a high school drop-out with a Harvard diploma on the wall of her office - a bogus document. Do you not know reality from illusion (relatively speaking)? A 'real' diploma indicates a 'real' achievement in academia.

If you gathered the intention behind certain religious rituals, you would see the importance of ministerial actions to those receiving them. It has nothing to do with the physical life and is like comparing apples to oranges.

People don't receive credentials to become pedophiles. Academic achievements can be obtained without ethics or morals. They are then merely intellectual exercises devoid of compassion or wisdom. Look at lawyers for example. Even Jesus said "Woe unto you lawyers and hypocrites."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: All clergy are phoney. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #635135 - 05/18/02 05:49 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Of course you are entitled to define marriage any way you want to. That is completely your choice. If some couple wants to get married by a friend with their beliefs - whatever they are - it's their choice. No problem. There is no problem at all here, in fact, but I sense an argumentative attitude. Marriage for me is a symbolic reality for a divine union - a conjunctio of opposites, and its outer form is intended to convey this spiritual reality to others.

But let me not seem hypocritical. After my current lady and I divorced our ex spouses, we have not 'married' in any legal way; neither have we 'married' according to ritual. Our marriage exists moment-to-moment in a faithful relationship. I do not know exactly why most marriages fail, but the subtle psychological changes that creep in, by which we begin to take each other for granted, has something to do with it. Though we refer to each other as 'wife' and 'husband,' the interaction is still, after 6 years, like we are on a date. My further objection to frivolous marrying is an objection to just another source of everyday suffering: divorce.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Anonymous]
    #635148 - 05/18/02 06:02 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Right. I do not require a faith community to recognize or validate the union I have with my lady. It is internal: psychic and spiritual. I am not interested in what Uncle Sam thinks either, as that is just about taxes and money for the government. However, since it's not All About Me, I do not like to see gullible people deceived, although shallow, frivolous people can be expected to celebrate in shallow frivilous ways. I do not have expectations for other people. They are free to do what they like, for reasons that they are equipped to understand.

Hey...my wedding in '83 was by a Messianic Jewish pastor on my parent's lawn, with his wife playing guitar. The only problem there was that my ex wife was only saying "I do" with her lips, while her heart, mind and actions said 'I won't.' I don't believe the minister had a seminary degree, but I believed he was a good-intentioned Christian. The license was of the State of New Jersey. Everything was good, except the person I chose to marry. My bad.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/19/02 09:56 AM)

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Offlinerain_angel
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Re: Become An ORDAINED MINISTER.100% Legal & FREE [Re: Swami]
    #637960 - 05/20/02 01:51 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

lol, i think thats great, i am now a reverend too. thats awesome i might order a certficate, if i ever have money to throw away! i really think this is hilarious, and speaks how legit, but loopy this world is that we created. thats funny how i can be a reverend of my own ministry, and sign up for it, just like a psycik would claim to be a mind reader- now i can claim to be a reverend. its funny, but you have to find a sick/twisted/ironic humor in it.
peace
rain

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