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 Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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 Beating Green Mold 
#631167 - 05/15/02 02:42 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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this was posted at mycotopia.net originally
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By Eyebooger (Eyebooger) on Monday, May 13, 2002 -
04:38 pm:
Howdy all, just for the record I am not a chemist and cannot corroborate with any of the evidence submitted previously for or against the use of bleach in growing mushrooms. I can however show you my results. After my first flush I noticed green mold starting to invade my cakes that were nearly spent. This presented me with the perfect opportunity for a trial run of the notorious Bleach Dunk!
This is a picture of my cake after its first flush. It really wasn't that green, I just got scared and hosed the whole terrarium with hydrogen peroxide turning most of the little aborts green
This is a picture of the cake just after I put the 1% bleach solution in.
This is the cake after 12 hours of sitting in the fridge.
Here is our little friend again after being re-double end cased and placed back in his home.
All of these cakes were dunked using bleach at the same time. The pins are forming after only three days.
Going crazy two days later, I forgot to take a pic before I started plucking so the ones on the chicken wire are from the cake at top right.
Finally the next day I am happy to say that nearly 100g wet came from only three cakes on their second flush. Add about fifty to that because many weren?t ready by the time I left for work this morning.
If I start to die of dioxin poisoning I?ll post a note on the board. The cakes only smelled of bleach for less than a day. I was also able to clean out my terrarium in the process and I am happy to say that I see no more signs of green mold. (Adam Sandler voice) "Hydrogen peroxide is good!! It kills the germs and makes the shrooms happy and good!! Bleach is better!! It kills everything in it's path and leaves the mycelium shiny and new!! Oh really fool!? REALLY!!"
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for more info on my bleach dipping tek, please visit mycotopia.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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 TrippingBillies
SpaceCruiser
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 305
Loc: Pangea
Last seen: 20 years, 13 days
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 Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#631177 - 05/15/02 03:05 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Very Impressive" -Rounders- in a Russian accent of course.
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"It's so obvious it's hard to understand."
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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SouthernGent
veteran
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1,331
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 Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#631235 - 05/15/02 04:28 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hippie nuttin personal dude but the experts at FF has already told you this is a dangerous tek.
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SlamDog_C
enthusiast
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 230
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#631301 - 05/15/02 06:03 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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How can a bleach dunk at that concentration be harmful?
"Under normal household use, sodium hypochlorite is broken down in the environment into table salt, oxygen and water. Other substances may be formed, to a small extent. These by-products are most often referred to as AOX (adsorbable organic halides). A great many studies have been made to provide a risk assessment of household bleach in terms of its formation of AOX.
The conclusions drawn were:
the amount of AOX is very small both in absolute terms and relative to other human activities and natural sources,
the majority of these AOX are easily degradable,
the AOXs formed are primarily water soluble and not bio-accumulative.
highly chlorinated species, such as dioxins, are NOT formed. "
I work in the food service industry and we dissinfect everything with bleach which is highly recommended by most if not all of the health boards in north america.
Also a mixture of bleach/vinegar/water is used for the sterilization of fresh produce to kill micro-organisms
"The important factors affecting the germicidal properties of chlorine include the acidity (pH) of the solution, the concentration of the chlorine in the solution and the temperature of the solution. The most economical and readily available form of chlorine is bleach. Bleach is a solution of sodium hypochlorite (NaOCI) in water. Most common laundry bleach is 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite in water. Sodium hypochlorite solutions are very alkaline with a pH in excess of 9 or 10. At this high pH, bleach is not a very effective germicide. The pH of the bleach solution must be reduced to between 6 and 7 in order to form hypochlorous acid (HOCI). Hypochlorous acid is the most germicidal form of chlorine in aqueous media. Thus, when bleach is added to water to form a germicidal sanitizing solution it is necessary to adjust its pH to between 6 and 7. The easiest and most economical way to do this is to add distilled vinegar to the bleach-water mixture. When enough vinegar is added to adjust the pH of the solution to between 4 and 5, the solution is mostly hypochlorous acid (HOCI), and its germicidal power is greatest. However, when the solution pH is between 4 and 5 it is very corrosive to metals. Thus, using the bleach solution at a pH between 6 and 7 gives satisfactory germicidal power and the solution is not excessively corrosive. When the pH of a bleach solution is decreased to below 4.0, deadly chlorine gas is formed. Thus, it is important to only reduce the pH of the bleach solution to not less than about 6."
Next time you try the dunk Hippie try adding vinegar to get the proper Ph level and see if it makes a difference.
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angryshroom
Stranger
Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: SlamDog_C]
#631529 - 05/15/02 10:23 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I find that this tek is cool and all. 1% bleach in water probably isint very harmful, especially when its used just to grow shrooms.
However, bleach has been known for its envoirnmental hazards. I never use bleach anymore because once it goes down the drain it'll probably end up int he ocean. Its extremely detrimental to our envoirnment.  It usually will kill anything in its way at full concentration, but at 1%, it doesnt seem like such an issue?!
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: SouthernGent]  1
#631614 - 05/15/02 11:28 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol
you have got to be kidding me.
what 'experts' at forestfloor ?
some wannabe pseudo-experts flamed me when i posted it,
but they aren't experts by any means,
and posted irrelevant nonsense..
you want to talk about dangerous,
prove it.
they could not.
i bet you can't either.
don't let ignorance be your guide,
think for yourself.
this tek works, and is perfectly safe.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
Edited by Hippie3 (05/15/02 12:55 PM)
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avarrin
family
Registered: 07/23/00
Posts: 185
Loc: chattanooga, tn
Last seen: 8 years, 5 days
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3] 1
#632123 - 05/15/02 05:18 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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and i say, down with green mold!
nice tek hippie! 
~ava
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* all flames are subject to /dev/null
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bassplayer74
old hand
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 906
Loc: Tennessee
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3] 1
#632140 - 05/15/02 05:26 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Go Hippie...Keep comin with the ideas man! 
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If you will it, it is no dream.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: SlamDog_C]
#632425 - 05/16/02 01:15 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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hey, thanks for the great info.
i've searched all over but did not find such clear instructions on ph's role in the germicidal effectiveness of bleach, i'll add some vinegar to my next series of experiments, and pass the word.
thx, again.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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GaNjAShRooM
===SPUN===
Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 2,954
Loc: Southern United States
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#632488 - 05/16/02 03:02 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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these casings had the green really bad when i birthed it =)
i beat the green-
all these casings had it bad when birthed-sorry no flash-batteries was low-kinda dark-
nothing but h202,and water was used- =)
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Cultivation Laws Of America Suck
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: GaNjAShRooM]
#632495 - 05/16/02 03:12 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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nice flush & pic.
i don't think bleach dipping is going to be very useful on casings, more useful on cakes.
surprised though that you beat the mold, usually it burrows underground and comes back.
check out this link, everyone, for more great info on bleach dipping.
Bleach Sanitizing
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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happygrins
addict
Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 588
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#632549 - 05/16/02 04:20 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice Job, Hippie...
So that is a Pint jar you got that dunking in, right?..
Q: approximately how much bleach is 1% in a pint jar?..
Thanks!..
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ChromeCrow
one ancient mutha
Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 1,887
Loc: Hoosier HELL
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#632680 - 05/16/02 06:19 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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"i beat the green" will see just how safe it is, when i eat the shrooms this weekend!
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ISO: Orissa, Malabar, z strain
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GaNjAShRooM
===SPUN===
Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 2,954
Loc: Southern United States
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: ChromeCrow]
#632723 - 05/16/02 07:03 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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i ate them-they wre fine-hell even on the 3rd flush now-same casings-1 of the large didnt make it after 1st though
but hey the shrooms were ok- =)
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Cultivation Laws Of America Suck
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: happygrins]
#633084 - 05/16/02 11:17 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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use 1 cc bleach per 100 cc water.
also, adding 2 cc vinegar per 1 cc of bleach will improve germicidal properties.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#633456 - 05/16/02 04:36 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Other than the inherant problems with this idea listed on FF, there is also the problem that their are a number of different types of green molds, penicillium, cladosporium, aspergillus and trichoderma being only the most common - each of which being able to tolerate different levels of toxins introduced into their environment.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Zen Peddler]
#633851 - 05/17/02 02:16 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol
and bleach kills each and every one on your list. and most others as well. it's one of the most effective disinfectants around, and very safe around humans.
if you did some research you'd discover that even NASA used bleach to sterilize space craft so they won't accidently contam other planets.
the grocery store uses it to clean your produce,
bakers use it to make flour white,
which they put in our bread, etc.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#634574 - 05/17/02 03:08 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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and the bleach at those levels you have prescribed kills all those molds including endospores, yet does not cause mutation of the mycelia or cause the fruits and mycelia to build up toxins? Only cubensis mycelia would be able to grow in that kind of toxic substrate and i could not see it having positive effects on its growth
At best it could be a short term solution, like antibiotics in agar media. Repeated use of antibiotics results in mutations... Personally i thinks its far safer just to improve your technique so that you dont have contaminants in the first place.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Zen Peddler]
#634959 - 05/18/02 12:48 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
but that's all it is-
just your opinion.
you offer no evidence on any issue,
just lectures on what you think everyone else should do.
but i seriously doubt if everyone will heed your call
to just do more cleaning,.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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vatoloco
Puppet Hunter -DBK
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 7,653
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Hippie3]
#635164 - 05/18/02 06:24 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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bassplayer74
old hand
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 906
Loc: Tennessee
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: vatoloco]
#635224 - 05/18/02 07:16 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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You might not want to risk spawning with those. Maybe just crumble and then case them but I wouldnt risk spawning them.
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If you will it, it is no dream.
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Krash X
member
Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 67
Last seen: 22 years, 8 days
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#635253 - 05/18/02 07:51 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone gets mold somtimes, even if you are fairly sanitary. Thanks for doing the research hippie.
KX
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Alien
Galactic Shaman
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,868
Loc: Jupiter's Moon
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Hippie3]
#635380 - 05/18/02 10:49 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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-Alien 
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Alien]
#635915 - 05/18/02 11:00 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sure its an opinion - but im not sure what your trying to say - you dont think that antibiotics mutate the genetics of mushrooms?? Well then have a look at TMC for a start if you want evidence of that. No need to take it personally - sure if everyone out there wants to stop relying in sterile techinques and start using toxins that their business - im just raising some points that may come into consideration
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: vatoloco]
#636018 - 05/19/02 03:35 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, 2:100 = 1:50, which i found to be lethal to mycellia, so you probably just killed everything.
1 part bleach to 100 water is MAXIMUM strength,
don't use more thinking it'll work better, it won't.
in truth, 1:100 is still 7.5 times stronger than what is needed to sterilize effectively.
so while it's ok to go 1 part bleach to 200 water,
you can't go 1 to 50 without killing your mycellia. this is one area where you must follow directions.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
Edited by Hippie3 (01/03/04 07:18 AM)
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Zen Peddler]
#636022 - 05/19/02 03:45 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol
see, your bias is so obvious.
you use loaded words like 'toxin' when in truth bleach is not toxic, not poisonous, you can even safely drink it, diluted of course. it is caustic, strongly alkaline, but that's a different story.
and no one is talking about antibiotics, that's an irrelevant side issue to this question.
and no one is saying quit using sterile technique either, because bleach dipping is no miracle cure for a massive contamination.
but it is useful in cleaning, in prevention of contams, and in killing small outbreaks if caught early.
i've been using it in my spray mister bottle when i mist my terrarium, i even recently dunked 2 cakes in milk and followed it up with a bleach dip, both cakes are now setting fruit on their 2nd flush with nary a contam in sight.
i see using bleach dipping as an addition to, not a substitute for, good sterile procedures.
but it's pointless to argue about hypothetical questions designed to create fear and apprehension about the tek,
which is what i think you are really trying to do.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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simon303
Papa Smurf
Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 25
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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 Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#1354797 - 03/06/03 10:07 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hippie, you're the man!! Always breaking the rules... lol
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Papa Smurf knows where the goods are..=)
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sBUD
enthusiast
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 263
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#1354979 - 03/06/03 11:50 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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If i may ask....what was the purpose of dunking the cakes in milk then into a bleach dip???? (did this increase yield substantially>??)What benefit came from this?
Was the bleach to water content at 1:100?
Also is it possible to do this very same thing , milk then bleach dunk for ur cakes in the chronic tekk?
Thx Hippie3,
sBUD
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#1355763 - 03/06/03 09:06 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
.
you offer no evidence on any issue,
just lectures on what you think everyone else should do.
hahahahahahahaha
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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deanofmean
mycophagous
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: Hippie3]
#1355867 - 03/07/03 12:05 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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just as a side note . 1:100 = 1ml. or cc per liter . that is not much .
the ultra strength bleach that is on the market contains less water . i don't know by how much, but it would be pretty easy to burn your cake .
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BigJohnson
Whoa! You guysneed to lightenup!
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 716
Loc: The Yard
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
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Re: Beating Green Mold [Re: deanofmean]
#1356513 - 03/07/03 05:50 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Awesome post. A friend just lost his casing to green. It started in a corner and the corner + 3 cm was removed. Then it reappeared 3 days later and half the casing was removed. Then, 3 days later it popped up all over the last half, and now the casing lives in the compost pile. I wonder if the mycelium will beat the green in the compost pile?
Questions: Anyone try adding this 1% solution to cakes when they are being made? Will cub spores germ in this solution? What if one innoc'd bleach jars with mycelial honey water? Can bleach be used as a preventative germicide before the green sets in?
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Should the US relegalize drugs?
http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html
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mycohobbiest
Stranger
Registered: 12/22/11
Posts: 14
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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chlorine evaporates out of bleach pretty readily
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