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*discussion*: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll
    #630858 -

I just posted about how we are not all going to be interested in the same books or same reading levels etc. and it would be cool to make suggestion via. the kind I did and then set a deadline to have / start reading the book by and then discuss in book in the same or maybe a new thread. This is all new to all of us so i'm sure we'll start of slowly. I think it would be super cool if we all read the same book for the same time around and maybe smaller suggestions will just detract from the main idea because it will make one group dominate but we're free to read what we want..so.. my suggestion is Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll (i'm sure a lot of you have read it and many of you have seen the movie) but it is sort of mushroom / trip related. Anyways, anybody who agrees can post here and we'll see how it goes.

GREAT IDEA!


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #631289 -

yes - it IS related - SHIT- how didnt i think of that?

a growin original

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #631644 -

Trivia:... What other name did Mr Carroll write books under?


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: phrozendata]
    #631719 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #632092 -

fuck yea...i'll read it with you...I was doubting that anybody would want to...we'll wait and see if any more people are interested before we start anything...I hope this is read sometime soon though


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #632102 -

I'll read it !!
Can't believe I've never had the chance...I should be ashamed of myself

~K~

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: ]
    #632124 -

I think this is a book i'de like to add to my collection. How many of you would also be interested in buying it. A really nice looking copy at amazon.com is only (mass market) is only 3.95 and Iguess the shroomery can get 15% of that?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451527747/qid=1021522761/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_71_4/102-6485772-8853746

or the hardcover is $11.89

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0448060043/qid=1021522761/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_71_5/102-6485772-8853746

p.s. anybody who is going to buy it through amazon wait untill the shroomery gets a link so they can get 15%




--------------------
"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: phrozendata]
    #635171 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #635193 -

sure...i'll read it with you...but I dont have it yet!

this is just a book that I want to add to my personal collection thats all...you know what...i'm going to shower and shave and go down to my local library before work and see if I can get it....


--------------------
"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #635262 -

What a bitch! I get all the way down to the library (on the other side of town) and they're closed...some holiday shit!

Whatever...I had a fun drive in my sisters crappy Mazda 323...cant wait to get my civic back!


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #635459 -

the annotated alice is an excellent choice if you choose to read alice in wonderland- its a completely annotated version of victorian jokes and in things carroll was throwing around... not only for scholars, totally accessible for most levels of reader.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393048470/qid=1021765557/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-2618816-1631006


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? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: oscill8]
    #636288 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #636388 -

I guess you wont be waiting for me...so I cant discuss it with you...the library was closed again today!


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #636881 -

I'm down to read it again. Wonderfull book, i have the version with both Alice in Wonderland and Through The looking glass. another verry trippy read. Just tell me when you want to start.
Kalu Kalay!


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Normally psyko78626

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: psyko7862sex]
    #639386 -

Guess what book I just got: OOOOOOO times up!

Alice in Wonderland!!! It's the stupid childrens copy so its super large print but o well so sad....


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #639566 -

Okay, well in about 30 minutes (or less) of reading I have proceeded to Chapter VI (6). In my copy of the book I am on page 71, but since this is the large print childrens book, I wouldn't be suprised if this was only page 18(ish) on a regular book. Anyways, I guess as the starter of the thread and suggestion of this book it is my dutie to start some sort of discussion.

I would be glad if anybody would join us (as I understand BigIdiot and I are both reading this right now and a few other people are interested) and this is a very easy book to read (on a base level). However, the more the merryer and I have no doubt you could catch up in an instant.

Now, I will start discussion of the book openly...I am not going to set anything that I feel should be discussed but please contribute to other ideas as well as thinking of others.

My copy of this book has an interesting idea to an answer to the partially famous riddle (it appread on the simpsons I know that) "Why is a raven like a writing-desk?" I would like to hear some ideas and suggestions before I give the books suggestion to the answer to this riddle. However, as noted in the book, this riddle was originally invented and had no answer at all.

Furthermore, I would like to relate to a quote that struck my immediate interest. It read: "But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!"

Now, it is ovbious, espically for me having the "kids" version of the book, that on a base level this is a handsome little fairytale about Alice's Adventures In Wonderland. However, being discuessed on a website with the interest of drugs and espically mushrooms I would like to steer some (if not most) conversation towards the idea of tripping.

In the six chapters that I have read Alice has reffered many times to "feeling different" and she has already experience the Hookah smoking caterpillar that even suggest to her to eat the mushroom. Even more so, could Alice really be seeing all this (walking, talking animals etc.) or is it part of her trip?

I think somebody allready said that Lewis Carroll wrote this book while he was ON mushrooms. Now, I dont know if this is true or not, or, if he even used drugs but I would like to clear that up so if anybody could tell me (us) that would be great.



This exact picture is used in my book w/o the color. I dont know if that picture is the original colors or not but is that blue I see on the mushroom?


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: GabbaDj]
    #639569 -

GabbaDj wrote:

In reply to:

Trivia:... What other name did Mr Carroll write books under?



C. L. Dodgson ???


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #639586 -

BigIdiot:

I'm sure that you having the annotated version is very great. I'm a little bit unfortunate over here, would love to have that, but the library only had this copy in. I'de like to discuss some of these annotations so if you want to suggest some of the good ones it'll help my understanding of this book. I have this for a little under a money and might read through it once more after the discussions for a greater understand...at the moment, even though i'm trying to go slowly, i'm sure that I am reading mostly at the base level and missing a lot of important stuff. Hey, i'm only a kid right?


--------------------
"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #639702 -

>C. L. Dodgson ??? <

Nay Phrozndata, Dogson was a mathematician who inspired Carroll...

Tell you the truth I cant find the alter identity of Carrol... I read it once in a book that compares great writers with their paper orders, either Carroll had another great poetry writer living with him, ordered paper for this man/woman or it was he himself who wrote what was written...

I have the book still but I have too many books, many in storage. I WILL find this one...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: GabbaDj]
    #639771 -

Dodgson is Carrols real name.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #639834 -

Why is a Raven like a Writing Desk?

This riddle has bugged me for a great deal of time and the best answer i could come up with had to do with Poe's Raven.
His raven says Never More, and is used to symbolise the lost dead lover, in other words the end of something, Now a writing desk is where ideas are born, tales are begun... in other words the bignning.
Now you can't start something without having and end somewhere. Thus you can't have one without the other. But of course this is just my ramblings. Now i did a quick and dirty search for the real answer and come up with this.....
This is something that drives me crazy every time I hear it: "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" Is there really a hilarious answer to this seemingly impossible riddle? Or is the hilarious part that there really isn't an answer? Also, where did this riddle originate? --Mary, via the Internet

Dear Mary:

This riddle is very famous, although it is the rarefied kind of fame that entails most people never having heard of it. It comes from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. Alice is at the tea party with the March Hare, the Mad Hatter, and the Dormouse, when apropos of pretty much nothing the Hatter pops the question above. Several pages of tomfoolery ensue, and then:

"Have you guessed the riddle yet?" the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.

"No, I give it up," Alice replied. "What's the answer?"

"I haven't the slightest idea," said the Hatter.

"Nor I," said the March Hare.

Alice sighed wearily. "I think you might do something better with the time," she said, "than wasting it in asking riddles that have no answers."

At this point most of us are thinking, ho-ho, that Lewis Carroll, is he hilarious or what? But inevitably you get a few losers who say, well, OK, but I still want to know why a raven is like a writing desk. One sighs wearily. Guys! It's a joke! The answer is that there isn't any answer!

Oh, they say. Pause. But why is a raven like a . . .

Lewis Carroll himself got bugged about this so much that he was moved to write the following in the preface to the 1896 edition of his book:

Enquiries have been so often addressed to me, as to whether any answer to the Hatter's Riddle can be imagined, that I may as well put on record here what seems to me to be a fairly appropriate answer, viz: `Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!' This, however, is merely an afterthought; the Riddle, as originally invented, had no answer at all.

Did this discourage people? No. They figured, that dope Carroll, he's too dumb to figure out his own riddle, setting aside the halfhearted attempt just quoted. So they ventured answers of their own, some of the more notable of which are recorded in Martin Gardner's The Annotated Alice and More Annotated Alice:

Because the notes for which they are noted are not noted for being musical notes. (Puzzle maven Sam Loyd, 1914)
Because Poe wrote on both. (Loyd again)
Because there is a B in both and an N in neither. (Get it? Aldous Huxley, 1928)
Because it slopes with a flap. (Cyril Pearson, undated)
Not bad for amateurs. But the real answer, to which the careers of Poe and Carroll bear ample testimony, is that you can baffle the billions with both.

Postscript: In 1976 Carroll admirer Denis Crutch pointed out that in the 1896 preface quoted above, the author had originally written: "It is nevar put with the wrong end in front." Nevar of course is raven spelled backward. Big joke! However, said joke did not survive the ministrations of the proofreaders, who, thinking they understood the author's intentions better than the author, changed nevar to never in subsequent editions. The indignities we authors suffer! Sure, it's partly made up for by the money and groupies, but still, if in some book (e.g., this one) you come across a line that really clanks, be assured: it was funny before.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_266.html
peace


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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: WildCardsRevenge]
    #639914 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #639960 -

samuel dodgeson?
degree in divinity, writer on mathematics?
in heinlein's _the number of the beast_ the 4 main narrators of the story find themselves travelling through universes that are recognizably fiction (oz, lensman stories, wonderland, ending up in a heinlein story)... they consult dodgeson in order that he could assist in solving a puzzle with them...
i think that alice also shows up in farmer's riverworld series...
as to shroomin' in victorian england... well, fly agaric has a reputation for magical effects going back centuries (millennia?), and the psilocybe's were not formally identified as mind-altering by the scientific community until the 1950s (with hints in the 30s) but almost certainly intoxication from ingestion of psilocybin/psilocin containing mushrooms took place in england, europe, asia, and elsewhere in the 1800s...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: gnrm23]
    #640021 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #640403 -

In reply to:

Enquiries have been so often addressed to me, as to whether any answer to the Hatter's Riddle can be imagined, that I may as well put on record here what seems to me to be a fairly appropriate answer, viz: `Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!' This, however, is merely an afterthought; the Riddle, as originally invented, had no answer at all.



Exactly what my copy say!

I agree with the fact that it is based on a dream land...I mean...look how it ends...kind of cheesy eh?


--------------------
"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #640890 -

I wrote an entire analytical essay on Alice in Wonderland...this is what I came up with...but I also read through the looking glass, the second part to Alice in Wonderland. I went into this reading with little prior knowledge and assumed it would all be drug related as well.

I think that Lewis Carroll is depicting the life journey of Alice this young girl that he was infatuated with (research on Carroll proves this) if you mirror his life and hers and their interactions you can plainly see them in his books. You see young Alice progress through her years as a child at the very beginning of the book, as she recites poems, then a period where time speeds up as she falls through the rabbit hole (if you watch any of the movie versions at this point you do see a clock speed up) near the end of the first book you can see her teenage years approach and drug use comes into play, at the begining of the second book she goes through withdrawl, as the "white knight" (in carroll's eyes himself) comes to save her. By the end of the book she has gone through many identity battles and general life experiences that shes "all grown up" and invited to tea.


thats just the short of it, I'll see if I can find the actual essay that has all the quotes that proves that theory, I'll also reread it and point out the exact points in more detail where this theory is evident.


--------------------
~Earth is the Insane Asylum of the Universe~

A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Gillette]
    #640896 -

Wow! That would be excellent.

I will be reading a little more tonnight and try to come on with some discussion after work tommorow. I am going to try and wrap this up before the deadline for Vineland, the offically voted book, starts.

Thanks Everybody.


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: phrozendata]
    #643090 -

ahhh yall started! no one told me when to run. I'v missed the starting gun.
oh well next time


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Normally psyko78626

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: psyko7862sex]
    #643624 -


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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: Anonymous]
    #644377 -

No, we'de love to have you join the discussion. This topic has layed dormant for a couple days so i'll try to bring something new up. Some quotes that made me laugh:

"The March Hare took the watch and looked at it gloomily: then he dipped it into his cup of tea, and looked at it again: but he could think of nothing better to say than his first remark, "It was the best butter, you know."

"...neither of the others took the least notice of her going, though she looked back once or twice, half hoping that they would call after her: the last time she saw them, they were trying to put the Dormouse into the teapot."

The last quote comes with a picture. It really made me laugh!

(Thats the exact one)

Anybody who doesnt want to purchase this book or go to the library can read it online or print it out. It's acutally a short book: Heres one link I found:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/rgs/alice-I.html
and another was posted earlier.

I've been doing some reading by others on this book and have found a few interesting things: *** NOT MY WORK ***

...point out that the girl?s experiences in the world at the bottom of the rabbit hole are similar to the dreams (sometimes, nightmares) that most human beings have.

By exploring this observation further, you can help your students connect what Lewis Carroll was doing in words with what the surrealists in the early 20th century were doing with painting. The connection should increase students? appreciation of both modern literature and modern art?and perhaps help students to better understand the historical period of those writers and artists.

I think that a good point towards this being a dream world is that nothing seems to make logical sense like our dreams do.

heh..have you guys all heard Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit ??


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: psyko7862sex]
    #644790 -

hey, yr never too late to join in discussion about _alice_ !
~
yeah a lot of dreamtime stuff... and before freud & jung and that crowd, heh...
of course a lot of victorian-era fantasy just cires out for freudian analysis, but is that "fair" (hehheh...) --- a shrink get ahold of dodgeson - anyway...
~
nad as a hatter... bit o' mercury poisoning, no doubt... heh...
~
hookah smoking catterpillar... well, opium & opiates were no doubt available at the local apothecary... (louisa may alcott wrote a short story about a cannabis-candy fueled party... hmmm...)
well, later (i still can't find my copy of aliice in wonderland& thru the looking glass (maybe in my daughter's room?)
~


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: gnrm23]
    #648135 -

I have a question about alice and wonderland and through the looking glass.

When i was about 7-8 i watched a movie that resembled alice and wonderland. I dont remeber the begining to well, but there was a part where alice was home (i assume) in her living room (not what they would have called it) and there were mirrors every were and she was deathly afraid of them. Eventually the room got dark and stormy and lightning could be seen through the mirrors. This was near the VERY end of the movie. and thats about all i can remeber, i think it was a abc family special or something... but id love to watch it again, if anyone else has seen it please speak up.

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Re: SUGGESTION: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll [Re: windex]
    #660193 -

I think that would be the movie "Jaberwocky" and it's the people acted version of Alice in wonderland and the final part of the book series, its sounds like the part your describing is the part right before the jaberwocky comes in, I have the movie if you want to borrow it.....
...I could be totally wrong about the whole thing tho....


--------------------
~Earth is the Insane Asylum of the Universe~

A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

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General Interest > Music, Art, and Media
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