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InvisibleDiploidM
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Microsoft May Sue Red Hat Linux
    #6296288 - 11/18/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Following the controversial patent indemnification agreement between Microsoft and Novell last week, Microsoft representatives expressed interest in creating similar deals with other major Linux distributors. The patent agreement, which has become a source of much controversy within the open source community, is an unusual cross-licensing arrangement. Novell pays Microsoft a royalty fee, and in return the Redmond software giant agrees not to sue any of Novell's customers.

Red Hat has been one of the most vocal critics of the deal, and has rejected Microsoft's offer of a similar arrangement. Red Hat considers the agreement to be a form of intellectual property extortion and has condemned it as an "innovation tax" that could potentially "isolate communities or limit upstream adoption." Citing its own prior patent pledge and its participation in the Open Invention Network, Red Hat feels that Microsoft's patent agreement is unnecessary and could potentially be detrimental to the open source community community.

Microsoft has responded to Red Hat's position by evaluating the possibility of providing its own patent indemnification service for Red Hat customers. Red Hat's position on the issue is unsurprising, and I doubt that Microsoft will get very far trying to provide commercial patent indemnification services for Red Hat customers. Red Hat is nothing if not pedantically careful about what components are included in its software. Red Hat's enterprise Linux distribution, for instance, doesn't include support for many common Microsoft technologies like NTFS, and Red Hat has also refused to ship Mono, the increasingly popular open source .NET implementation.

The deal between Microsoft and Novell has little to do with patents and a lot more to do with consumer demand for virtualization. The patent agreements were just an added bonus, perhaps intended to put pressure on other Linux distributors. It is likely that Microsoft's newfound interest in providing patent indemnification to Red Hat customers is just another tactic to try to convince Red Hat to come to the table on Microsoft's terms. Red Hat and its customers don't particularly want or need Microsoft indemnification, and Red Hat can't risk validating Microsoft's claims and fueling community angst by accepting the deal. Even though there isn't really any tangible evidence that Novell's agreement with Microsoft will have a detrimental impact on Novell or the open source community, the negative perception created by such an agreement is well worth avoiding for a company like Red Hat.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8240.html

Edit: better subject line


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (11/19/06 06:24 AM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Diploid]
    #6296292 - 11/18/06 07:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And RedHat's response:

In response to the Microsoft and Novell announcement on November 2, 2006:
We believe...

It was inevitable. The best technology has been acknowledged.

The relentless march of open source is shaking up the industry by freeing customers from proprietary lock-in and lack of choice.

We believe in the community.
We believe in collaboration.
We believe in choice.
We believe interoperability is created by open standards.

Just as they have for Apache, BIND, DNS, Eclipse, Fedora, Firefox, Hibernate, JBoss, Kerberos, LDAP, MySQL, Perl, PHP, Python, PostgreSQL, Sendmail, Tomcat. The list goes on. Where would customers be without these technologies?

We will not compromise.

Despite opposition, truth happens.
FAQ

Q: What do these announcements mean for Red Hat?

A: It means Linux has won. The world's largest software companies are saying what customers have known for years: Open source innovation delivers better software and better value.

Q: Did Red Hat consider a similar patent deal with Microsoft?

A: An innovation tax is unthinkable. Free and open source software provide the necessary environment for true innovation. Innovation without fear or threat. Activities that isolate communities or limit upstream adoption will inevitably stifle innovation.

We believe so strongly in this that we made a critical promise to our customers five years ago:

"To the extent any party exercises a Patent Right with respect to Open Source/Free Software which reads on any claim of any patent held by Red Hat, Red Hat agrees to refrain from enforcing the infringed patent against such party for such exercise ('Our Promise')."

Anything less would not be genuine. 200,000+ customers trust our Promise. 80+% of commercial Linux customers choose us every day. That's leadership--which respects the needs of the community and delivers the promise of open source to our customers.

Q: What's Red Hat's position on interoperability?

A: Our business has always been based on open standards and interoperability.

Open standards create interoperability everyone can implement. That's the real solution. It doesn't require a deal between two companies.

The interoperability solution has shifted to the intersection of applications, data, and business logic. We're focused on delivering an open source platform that addresses these issues.

Red Hat, its partners, and the community have been delivering solutions based on open standards, and our commitment continues.

Q: How does Red Hat help increase customer confidence when deploying open source solutions?

A: Red Hat has long been a leader in developing protections for open source:

* Our Patent Promise. Red Hat was the first to provide its Patent Promise, a covenant not to use its patents against users and developers of open source software. Our Patent Promise frees every user and developer to participate in the open source innovation engine without fear of Red Hat patents.
* Open Invention Network. Red Hat is a founding member in the Open Invention Network, an organization formed to ensure that users and developers have open access to intellectual property related to the Linux environment on a royalty-free basis.
* Open Source Assurance Program. Since 2003 Red Hat has offered the Open Source Assurance program.

Q: What is Red Hat's Open Source Assurance program?

A: Open Source Assurance is a program Red Hat designed to protect customers developing and deploying open source solutions. The program features an assurance program for Red Hat Enterprise Linux and JBoss Enterprise Middleware customers.

Q: How does the Open Source Assurance program protect customers?

A: The Open Source Assurance program is designed to allow customers to continue to use their chosen open source solution without interruption. It does this by either (i) replacing the infringing portion of the software, (ii) modifying the software so that it becomes non-infringing or (iii) obtaining the rights necessary for a customer to continue its use of the software.

Q: Who is covered under the Open Source Assurance program?

A: All customers (both direct and those purchasing from partners) with Red Hat subscriptions are covered under the Open Source Assurance program during the term of the subscription.

Q: Is this applicable to all versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and JBoss Enterprise Middleware?

A: Yes, all current and future versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and JBoss Enterprise Middleware are covered under the program.

Q: Has anything changed about Red Hat's Open Source Assurance program?

A: While customers have long purchased with confidence from Red Hat, Red Hat will now provide indemnification as an additional protection in its Open Source Assurance program.

Q: What does the additional protection cover?

A: The indemnification further protects against intellectual property infringement claims.

Q: How do customers obtain additional information and sign up?

A: Further information about the program and how to enroll will be provided shortly on redhat.com.

http://www.redhat.com/promo/believe/


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Diploid]
    #6296487 - 11/18/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

go red hat :thumbup:

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Invisiblesupercollider
superconducting

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Posts: 1,234
Loc: Waxahachie
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Diploid]
    #6297955 - 11/18/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

As far as I can tell, MS hasn't sued Red Hat, and that's a pretty misleading title for this topic.


--------------------
Supercollider? I just met her!

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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Diploid]
    #6298504 - 11/19/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We believe in the community.
We believe in collaboration.
We believe in choice.
We believe interoperability is created by open standards.




What a bunch of self-righteous bullshit. Red Hat is a 3.9 billion dollar business making their money from open source software. They are still recovering from being run over by Oracle and they realized that they fucked up by not getting in on the licensing agreement between Novell and Microsoft to run open-source code on Windows. They have nothing left to sell because Oracle is providing better, cheaper support for linux. Now they are trying to act like being able to run open source on Windows is a bad thing. Make no mistake, this press release is damage control to keep the shareholders hanging on and to try to keep the stock from its inevitable plummet. They just applied to be traded on the NYSE to decrease "volatility". They see the train wreck coming.

If any of you have worked with a company that is heavy into intellectual property, you know that a culture can develop with the investors not wanting to ever pay a dime for any one else's property and wanting to make it all on their own. Listening to investors and not doing what is best for business will only lead to failure time and time again. Almost every successful business with IP makes royalty payments to someone at some time.


Edited by Catalysis (11/19/06 12:45 AM)

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Catalysis]
    #6299018 - 11/19/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

do you really think that Microsoft just wants royalty payments?

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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Vvellum]
    #6299033 - 11/19/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
do you really think that Microsoft just wants royalty payments?




Thats the deal with Novell.

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Invisiblesupercollider
superconducting

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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 1,234
Loc: Waxahachie
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: Catalysis]
    #6299744 - 11/19/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What makes you think the MS-Novell deal has anything to do with running open source code on Windows? Anyone who wants to do that can anyway. The MS-Novell deal is a "pact not to sue." It's extortion on the part of MS, based on their unspoken threat of suing Linux vendors over intellectual property. You see, MS owns a bunch of bullshit patents in the U.S. over really simple things like double-clicking the mouse. These patents are on very shaky legal ground, and have yet to be challenged or exercised, but MS is threatening to do so now. Novell lent some legitimacy to MS's patent claims by accepting this deal, unfortunately, but they're still very questionable. MS, on the other hand lent legitimacy to Linux as a viable alternative to MS in business.

Like I said, I don't know where you got this about running open-source code on Windows. Red Hat has always been in favor of open standards that allow interoperability, and MS has always been against such standards.

As for Oracle, they claim to be providing cheaper, better support for Linux than Red Hat does, but they haven't revealed a business model that proves they can feasibly do that. Oracle's "Unbreakable" fork of RHEL has thus far proved to be slower in fixing bugs than real RHEL is.

Maybe I sound like a Red Hat fanboy. I actually don't like Red Hat Linux, but I do admire the company. They've found a way to be both profitable and socially responsible. And now bigger, greedier companies are trying to give them a lot of shit for that.


--------------------
Supercollider? I just met her!

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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Microsoft Sues Red Hat Linux [Re: supercollider]
    #6303878 - 11/20/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What makes you think the MS-Novell deal has anything to do with running open source code on Windows?




Sorry, on a windows server. If they are not using windows, they will not be sued because theres no interoperating. Lets face it, these guys are making money off of microsoft's technology like SQL, not double-clicking mice.

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