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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Asante]
    #6304392 - 11/20/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

whatever man.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: notapillow]
    #6304395 - 11/20/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think it is crap that Kramer apologized.

Fuck all of you for getting offended at a story that fell through the crack on a slow news day.

Look at Andy Kaufman, put yourself back 25 years ago and you would be the dumbfucks in the movie threatening him.
Comedians aren't always there to make you laugh. Maybe he genuinely lost his shit on stage, but so has Andy Kaufman, bill hicks, George Carlin, Lisa Lampinelli, Martin Lawrence and Robin Williams.

This is stupid. I cant believe there is even an issue regarding a comedian saying "Nigger". I cant think of one comic show I have been to where a comedian didn't say every racial slur imaginable.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6304398 - 11/20/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

and apparently black comedians have a free pass on making fun of white people, but when the tables are turned, it's a national scandal.

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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304405 - 11/20/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
...and what if the hypothetical comedian went off and said the equivalent but using the word bitch or cunt? Would you be offended? Are you offended by the Carlin bit or the Hicks bit? empty arguments? your "moral compass" is just a knee-jerk reaction that is entirely inconsistent and trained to be only offended by the word nigger but ignore other curse words and offensive language.

I am willing to bet that the hecklers regularly call women bitches and listen to music that calls women bitches. So, why are they offended when someone calls them a nigger?




You keep going off with the what ifs.  I was simply responding to the ORIGINAL hypothetical situation you proposed...remember?

Quote:

If it were a group of women that were heckling kramer and he called the women a bunch of bitches and cunts, would you be offended




Now that you are changing this hypothetical situation, once again, I will give you my take on it.  Firstly though, lets understand one thing.  What was clear to me on the video was that he was pissed for them interrupting them "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man...nigger", not for heckling.  Secondly,  we are not talking about what other comedians did.  We are talking about what this dumbass did. If a comedian is being "heckled"...than by all means, heckle back.  If an audience member keeps interupting, which is very rude, maybe through some heckles there way or let them know you don't appreciated it....

But don't go slandering, in any way, especially hitting a low blow on their race.  Talking about killing/hanging and shit?

Now, in your new hypothetical situation, of course I would be just as offended.

In your old hypthetical situation, I said it was STILL not right in anyway, but simply calling someone a bitch wouldn't be as bad as talking about hanging niggers and going on and on "nigger this, nigger that" and just acting like an idiot, blowing shit WAY out of proportion...all over people interrupting.  So not once did I say I feel it is alright.  You keep proposing new hypothetical situations to keep drawing this on and to keep supporting your arguements.

So in saying that, it was quite presumptious and ignorant for you to say

Quote:

your "moral compass" is just a knee-jerk reaction that is entirely inconsistent and trained to be only offended by the word nigger but ignore other curse words and offensive language




As I've pointed out, simply not the case.

Quote:

Sometimes an individual must respond and attack his attackers




So since we are on a roll with hypothetical situations...

So your saying your the type of guy that if someone threw a water balloon at you, they deserve to have their legs cut off?  Same idea...going way overboard.  This is where our moral's differ.  I don't think there is any reason to wrong someone back.  Karmas a bitch man.

Quote:

Yes. I think interrupting someone while they are trying to perform their job is quite rude and requires an equally or more harsh response




I agree rude.  More disrespectful if anything.  So it diserves slander and vicious attacks?  He sure as hell didn't give equally.  Again this ties back to the response above anyhow.



you know, this could honestly go on forever.  But in the end, it comes down to one's morals.

Why go punch for punch?  Why take it a step further in the way he did and go head stomp for pinch?  If he would of slandered and attacked anyone in the way he did, I'd still think he's a piece of garbage.

But it also takes a real man to apologize.  I think he feels equally as shitty about it...I hope.  People make mistakes and some times they are really big ones.

No need for hate people  :heart:

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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304412 - 11/20/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
and apparently black comedians have a free pass on making fun of white people, but when the tables are turned, it's a national scandal.




Yes making FUN. Not screaming with anger and hate in his eyes talking about lynching them.

It's not cool man. I don't know how you can argue it.

I'm glad he apologized. I haven't seen it, but robot said it was damn sincere. In light of that, I don't feel we need to continue arguing his obvious mistake.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304457 - 11/20/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Secondly, we are not talking about what other comedians did. We are talking about what this dumbass did.




The references to other comedians demonstrates the double-standards. When one comedian says something far more offensive than the word nigger, it is ok. But as soon as someone says nigger, they are immediately an outcast. I say call a nigger a nigger. If someone is acting like an asshole, they should expect retribution.

Quote:

If an audience member keeps interupting, which is very rude, maybe through some heckles there way or let them know you don't appreciated it....




And that is precisely what Kramer, Carlin, and Hicks did. And I applaud them.

Quote:

But don't go slandering, in any way, especially hitting a low blow on their race. Talking about killing/hanging and shit?




But talk of burning children in cars, rape, genocide are ok, right?

Quote:

In your old hypthetical situation, I said it was STILL not right in anyway, but simply calling someone a bitch wouldn't be as bad as talking about hanging niggers and going on and on "nigger this, nigger that" and just acting like an idiot, blowing shit WAY out of proportion...all over people interrupting.




And that is precisly your bias, your training. I think the word bitch is just as offensive and loaded as the word nigger, if not more as I demonstrated in my previous post.

Quote:

You keep proposing new hypothetical situations to keep drawing this on and to keep supporting your arguements.




I am simply demonstrating how your "moral compass" is inconsistent and full of double-standards. Now, tell me, what do you think of black comedians and their near constant barrage of racist jokes? Is that ok as well?

Quote:

So your saying your the type of guy that if someone threw a water balloon at you, they deserve to have their legs cut off? Same idea...going way overboard. This is where our moral's differ. I don't think there is any reason to wrong someone back. Karmas a bitch man.




Depends on the exact situation. If someone threw a waterballoon at me in order to insult and assault me while I was in the middle of something important effectively ruining that which was important, I would probably punch them in the face. I think it teaches a lesson: dont be asshole and start fights because you'll have hell to pay.

Quote:

So it diserves slander and vicious attacks?




Yes. Try standing on stage and have a group of drunk assholes call you names and interupt your performance, your career. They need to learn to grow the fuck up or else their disrespect will be coming back to them threefold.

Quote:

But it also takes a real man to apologize.




...or a agent with PR on his mind.

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Offlineiateshaggy
i haxor 360s
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304462 - 11/20/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

kramer rules :crankey:


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304469 - 11/20/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yes making FUN




What's the difference, really? If Kramer decided to tell jokes about niggers instead of calling them out personally, then it would be okay? Something tells me you'd be up in arms about that, too.

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OfflineSpooge
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Registered: 04/21/04
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304490 - 11/20/06 11:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What's the difference, really? If Kramer decided to tell jokes about niggers instead of calling them out personally, then it would be okay? Something tells me you'd be up in arms about that, too.




You can't see the difference in that?  :confused:

Yelling with animosity, hate and anger, talking about lynching VS "So a black guy walks down the street..."

Something tells me your off your rocker

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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304518 - 11/20/06 11:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The references to other comedians demonstrates the double-standards. When one comedian says something far more offensive than the word nigger, it is ok. But as soon as someone says nigger, they are immediately an outcast. I say call a nigger a nigger. If someone is acting like an asshole, they should expect retribution




Who said it was ok?  Your demonstration of double-standards falls off topic about what we really are talking about.  The fact a man, a professional on stage, acted out with hate and anger towards a race.  Not a single person, but a race

Quote:

And that is precisely what Kramer, Carlin, and Hicks did. And I applaud them




You think it was a simple heckle kramer pulled(again, not talking about the others)?

Quote:

But talk of burning children in cars, rape, genocide are ok, right?




Again you do this...*sigh*.  I can see what the aim of your arguement is now about, but I think you have it with the wrong person.  I never once condoned that.  When pertaining to your ORIGINAL hypothetical situation, I said calling someone a bitch was less offensive then talking about hanging niggers and going on for a good 5 minutes about it.  You then changed the hypothetical situation again, which I also discussed in my previous post.

Quote:

And that is precisly your bias, your training. I think the word bitch is just as offensive and loaded as the word nigger, if not more as I demonstrated in my previous post




On and on we go, where the merry-go round stops, no one knows...

Equally disturbing words, never once disputed that.  It was the context, anger and hate that came from his mouth that deserved the  :thumbdown:

Quote:

I am simply demonstrating how your "moral compass" is inconsistent and full of double-standards. Now, tell me, what do you think of black comedians and their near constant barrage of racist jokes? Is that ok as well?





You haven't once demonstrated this fact to me.  I have explained, very well, my feelings on slander and personal attacks.  I think it is very clear that I'm offended equally by both.  You can't keep going on comparing, "WE'D hang all your niggers back in the day and put a fork in your ass...nigger, nigger...ooooh yaahhh oooh yahhh...don't interrupt the white man" to "Your a bitch".  Now both are equally disturbing words on their own and even in the comparison provided they are wrong, but which ones worse given the fact that the first was yelled with much anger and hate?

Quote:

Depends on the exact situation. If someone threw a waterballoon at me in order to insult and assault me while I was in the middle of something important effectively ruining that which was important, I would probably punch them in the face. I think it teaches a lesson: dont be asshole and start fights because you'll have hell to pay




Great mentality.  So you wouldn't cut off their legs though...only a punch to the face?  :smirk:  A least you have some mercy.

Quote:

Yes. Try standing on stage and have a group of drunk assholes call you names and interupt your performance, your career. They need to learn to grow the fuck up or else their disrespect will be coming back to them threefold.




You are arguing something that is hypothetical to both of us.  I think it was clear what we know from the video was that it was a simple interruption.  Not slander and attacks on him.  Your totally going into the realm of assumption now with more what ifs.

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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304669 - 11/21/06 12:17 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What Kramer said was not necessarily racist. The word "nigger," while racist is also used specifically to offend. In a state of distressed anger, Kramer would have said the most offensive thing he could to his hecklers, in this case "nigger." If you watch the video of the Iranian UCLA student being tortured with a tazer, you'll notice he calls the black cop a nigger several times. Not because he's racist, but because he wanted to offend the officer. The same thing happened to me in highschool. Walking home from school with my (black) best friend, he and I got jumped by 5 black guys. During the fight I got knocked unconscious and stomped on but as my friend was the captain of the wrestling team he was able to get them to run away. I regained consciousness in time to shout "you fucking pussy niggers!" after them. Now, I am not racist (my friend really is black), but to hurt those who hurt me I used racist language.

Kramer is justified and rulz


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #6304685 - 11/21/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Because he was interrupted he's justified saying,

"Back in the day we'd hang you niggers and stick a fork up your ass"

No matter what he said, it wouldn't be justified, when only being interupted.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304708 - 11/21/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You can't see the difference in that?

Yelling with animosity, hate and anger, talking about lynching VS "So a black guy walks down the street..."

Something tells me your off your rocker




Explain to me what the difference is, if the end result is the same.

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: theuser]
    #6304733 - 11/21/06 12:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The dude had a fucking meltdown on stage.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304740 - 11/21/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Your demonstration of double-standards falls off topic about what we really are talking about. The fact a man, a professional on stage, acted out with hate and anger towards a race. Not a single person, but a race




And black comedians tell racist jokes all the time. Ever watch stand-up comedy on BET? They demonstrate hate toward an entire race on a regular basis. Why are you not disturbed by this?

Quote:


You think it was a simple heckle kramer pulled(again, not talking about the others)?




It was an appropriate response not unlike what Carlin and Hicks did.

Quote:

I can see what the aim of your arguement is now about, but I think you have it with the wrong person. I never once condoned that.




Once again, do you have a problem with how Hicks and Carlin responded?

Quote:

You haven't once demonstrated this fact to me. I have explained, very well, my feelings on slander and personal attacks. I think it is very clear that I'm offended equally by both. You can't keep going on comparing, "WE'D hang all your niggers back in the day and put a fork in your ass...nigger, nigger...ooooh yaahhh oooh yahhh...don't interrupt the white man" to "Your a bitch". Now both are equally disturbing words on their own and even in the comparison provided they are wrong, but which ones worse given the fact that the first was yelled with much anger and hate?




Neither. They are both the same.

Quote:

Great mentality. So you wouldn't cut off their legs though...only a punch to the face? A least you have some mercy.




Well, what should I do? Let people walk over me? Should I sing Kum-By-Ya and let people attack me? Fuck that.

Quote:

I think it was clear what we know from the video was that it was a simple interruption.




I dont think anything is clear from the video because the video begins with Kramer's response, but from the interviews I've seen of those in attendence, they said the hecklers were personally attacking him. So, Kramer returns in kind. Big deal.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Spooge]
    #6304742 - 11/21/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

entityexperiment said:
Because he was interrupted he's justified saying,

"Back in the day we'd hang you niggers and stick a fork up your ass"

No matter what he said, it wouldn't be justified, when only being interupted.




He did not say that.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #6304743 - 11/21/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
What Kramer said was not necessarily racist. The word "nigger," while racist is also used specifically to offend. In a state of distressed anger, Kramer would have said the most offensive thing he could to his hecklers, in this case "nigger." If you watch the video of the Iranian UCLA student being tortured with a tazer, you'll notice he calls the black cop a nigger several times. Not because he's racist, but because he wanted to offend the officer. The same thing happened to me in highschool. Walking home from school with my (black) best friend, he and I got jumped by 5 black guys. During the fight I got knocked unconscious and stomped on but as my friend was the captain of the wrestling team he was able to get them to run away. I regained consciousness in time to shout "you fucking pussy niggers!" after them. Now, I am not racist (my friend really is black), but to hurt those who hurt me I used racist language.

Kramer is justified and rulz




Exactly.

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304749 - 11/21/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
It was an appropriate response not unlike what Carlin and Hicks did.




Carlin and Hicks didn't walk off stage in shame. Did you see Richards apologize on Letterman? You're just trying too hard to play devil's advocate at this point. There's a difference between the Richard's response and Carlin's response because Carlin's response is supposed to be comedy while Richards' is more like a nervous breakdown. You're dense.

Who are you btw?

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OfflineSpooge
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Registered: 04/21/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304755 - 11/21/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

How is the end result the same?

Slandering a race because you were interupted, causing people, of all colours, to walk out...

or making funnies of a certain ethnic group, with no anger and hate directed at anyone, making people laugh?

Chris rock makes fun of black and white...do I get offended?  Do I personally think he's calling me, the white person, out?  Do I think he has anger in his voice and do I get a real sense of hate?  Does anyone?  He tells jokes, they don't mean a whole hella of a lot.  In a sense, he brings people of different ethnic backgrounds together by tastefully humouring crowds with his take on hilarious personality attributes and traits.

...Not yelling with hate directly towards someone, calliing them niggers and talking about how back in the day we killed.

You see how many people walked out?  You imagine how many we didn't see?  You see how the guy who put the show on came to apologize?  You see how kramer feels like a tard and geuinely apologized?

there is a pattern here.

It was a very wrong thing to do.  A mistake though and like I said, I give him  :thumbup: for aplogizing.

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OfflineSpooge
The Nutter
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 5,189
Loc: Ice patches that last for...
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Kramer flips out, here is the video [Re: Vvellum]
    #6304762 - 11/21/06 01:01 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
Quote:

entityexperiment said:
Because he was interrupted he's justified saying,

"Back in the day we'd hang you niggers and stick a fork up your ass"

No matter what he said, it wouldn't be justified, when only being interupted.




He did not say that.




oh sorry...

"SHUT UP!  50 years ago, we'd have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass.  *motions to the people* throw his ass out.  He's a nigger, he's a nigger, he's a nigger"

Much better  :smirk:
"

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