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Offlinelonestar2004
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Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass
    #6286725 - 11/15/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I hate democrats and I Hate HATE LAWS!

http://blog.myspace.com/darthchaosofrspw

For the past eight years, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith has tried unsuccessfully to pass its Orwellian Federal "anti-hate" bill. It has failed largely for one reason: Republican control of Congress.

Repeatedly, Republican opponents of their hate bill, such as Rep. Roy Blunt and Sen. Bill Frist have been able, with Republican congressional backing, to block passage.

With Democrats now in control, such freedom-saving clout no longer exists. ADL's federal thought crimes bill, "The Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act," will be reintroduced soon after January 1. Since no Democrat in Congress has ever voted against the hate bill, it will pass. Pres. Bush has said he will sign a "modified" hate bill. If he does, free speech in America will quickly come to an end.



Spreading Net of Thought Crime Laws

Today, from Canada to California, to Europe and Australia, ADL-inspired "thought crime" laws are stripping nations of free speech. In Canada and many European countries, it is a crime punishable by heavy fines and even imprisonment to make use of the internet to criticize federally protected groups, such as homosexuals and Muslims.

A top Canadian "hate laws" senior policy advisor recently described the power of her country's "speech crime" tribunal courts: "The Canadian Human Rights Tribunal is a quasi-judicial body. It can force a web to shut down or risk a $10,000 fine--$20,000 in extreme cases. If one ignores the Tribunal, one can be tried in federal court for contempt, and risk a 9-month jail sentence for a first-time offense." (Karen Izzard, quoted in Jewish Tribune, Sept. 21, 2006)

English-Turkish cyber-hate expert Prof. Yaman Akdeniz, speaking at a B'nai B'rith conference on how to end dissent on the net, rejoices that David Irving is behind bars. He said "continental European countries such as Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Hungary, Austria and Belgium have strong anti-hate laws, which have resulted in the imprisonment of hate-mongers. In Holland, 657 websites were removed. And in Germany, more than 700 hate websites were shut down." (ibid)

In England, two men who publicly described Islam as a "wicked faith" were indicted under Britain's anti-hate law and are fighting to avoid seven years in prison. The ADL-influenced British hate law stipulates that truth cannot be admitted as evidence in court. Only the complaints by members of specially protected groups who say their feelings have been hurt will be allowed. David Irving languishes in an Austrian prison primarily because he was forbidden to bring truth to the court in his defense.



I wonder if Pink Floyd's The Wall will be banned????????? because of the lyrics "for the queers and the coons and the reds and the jews".


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286765 - 11/15/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think myspace is the premier source of reliable information.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6286781 - 11/15/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s966.html



IMO This bill will empower the federal government to invade states' rights in "hate crimes" law enforcement, breaking down traditional states' rights protection from federal intervention.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286814 - 11/15/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Democrat, Repulican, it doesn't matter either way freedom is dissapearing.


The left/right bullshit is just that bullshit. It's all the same.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6286816 - 11/15/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

and IMO all these "new and improved" HATE LAWS can lead to thought crime...(totalitarianism)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286833 - 11/15/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed, the law is complete and utter bullshit, its a common assertion that any violent act on a person or persons is a hate crime.

Quote:

`(II) using a channel, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce;

`(ii) the defendant uses a channel, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce in connection with the conduct described in subparagraph (A);

`(iii) in connection with the conduct described in subparagraph (A), the defendant employs a firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or other weapon that has traveled in interstate or foreign commerce; or

`(iv) the conduct described in subparagraph (A)--

`(I) interferes with commercial or other economic activity in which the victim is engaged at the time of the conduct; or

`(II) otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce.






This part scares me, its a very vague undefined language, it can constitute to mean anything.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: barfightlard]
    #6286837 - 11/15/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

barfightlard said:
Democrat, Repulican, it doesn't matter either way freedom is dissapearing.


The left/right bullshit is just that bullshit. It's all the same.





"Democrat, Repulican, it doesn't matter" but we should work together to fight this...shit

I want you to keep the right to call Bush a cocksucker....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6286842 - 11/15/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yup slippery slope


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286851 - 11/15/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

barfightlard said:
Democrat, Repulican, it doesn't matter either way freedom is dissapearing.


The left/right bullshit is just that bullshit. It's all the same.





"Democrat, Repulican, it doesn't matter" but we should work together to fight this...shit

I want you to keep the right to call Bush a cocksucker....




There it is in a nutshell. The right protecting your freedoms that the left would take. In the name of "Tolerance". Oh the horror.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286852 - 11/15/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Right. I like what alex jones said "What a bunch of garbage, liberal, Democratic, conservative, Republican, it's all there to control you, two sides of the same coin! Two management teams, bidding for control of the CEO job of Slavery Incorporated!"

Pick the Red bat or the Blue bat, either way your going to get hit with it.

He had this article posted on his site too.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6286911 - 11/15/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"These authorities can carry out their responsibilities more effectively with greater Federal assistance"


"Such violence substantially affects interstate commerce in many ways:.."

What a joke....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6286943 - 11/15/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

After reading the actual bill, I've got no idea what your talking about. It only seems to broaden the definition of a hate crime to crimes committed because of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, disability, and gender. Plus it allows for federal grants to prosecute the perpetrator(s). Where are you getting this Orwellian "thought crime" nonsense? Under this law, you can only be prosecuted for a hate crime if you, "...willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person."

Seems awfully rational to me.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6286954 - 11/15/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Plus this: "In a prosecution for an offense under this section, evidence of expression or associations of the defendant may not be introduced as substantive evidence at trial." (Emphasis added.)

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Invisiblesurf rat
pass the dutchie

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 988
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6287043 - 11/15/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
i dont think myspace is the premier source of reliable information.




--------------------
Draft beer, not people.:faded:

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6287208 - 11/15/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Is there really a bill that threatens people's rights to say what they want about other races/religons/sexuality etc. through prosecution?

If so that is not liberal at all, and exists pretty much in opposite of civil liberty. Just because, as a leftist, I think gay people should be allowed to marry each other it doesn't mean I don't think that stupid bigots should be punished for calling them "fags." I can't say for certain (because I haven't done any homework on this issue) but I have a hunch you have gotten your hands on some skewed and innacurate information regarding this bill. If free speech really was on the line the ACLU would be raising hell.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6287603 - 11/15/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
After reading the actual bill, I've got no idea what your talking about. It only seems to broaden the definition of a hate crime to crimes committed because of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, disability, and gender. Plus it allows for federal grants to prosecute the perpetrator(s).

Seems awfully rational to me.





The creation of a vast anti-hate bureaucracy in America!!! seems rational.....

similar to what now exists in Canada. In Canada it is a "hate crime" to publicly criticize such federally protected groups as homosexuals and Jews. In Canada free speech talk radio no longer exists.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06103112.html

As of April 2004, the official hate crime law of Canada was amended to include the terminology ‘sexual orientation’ as an identifiable group. Officially, the law forbids the spreading, in speech, action or writing, of any information that could encourage or incite hatred or violence against homosexuals.


I don't like people walking around talking bad about FAGGOTS.... but they should have that right!


HR2662, S1145, will start with punishing violent hate crimes, but it creates an anti-hate bureaucracy through several means:

1. It breaks down all barriers between federal and states, rights in law enforcement. It allows federal "thought police" to meddle, upon the flimsiest of pretexts, in states, enforcement of civil rights laws.

2. It requires all states to pass and enforce ADL-style anti-hate laws.

3. It enforces nationwide the working ADL definition of "hate" as being "bias" against federally protected groups, for example homosexuals.


and that interstate commerce shit is shit! So if I call someone a faggot or jew and then threaten to kick his ass and the local police do nothing about it... well here comes the federal government with its interstate commerces laws!!!!

HR 2662 is in flat violation of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits government from favoring any particular group.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6287605 - 11/15/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
. If free speech really was on the line the ACLU would be raising hell.


:rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6287748 - 11/15/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

In Canada it is a "hate crime" to publicly criticize such federally protected groups as homosexuals and Jews.

This has nothing to do with HR2662.

I don't like people walking around talking bad about FAGGOTS.... but they should have that right!

They still do... but now if someone decides to go out 'n beat up some fags, he can be prosecuted for a hate crime.

So if I call someone a faggot or jew and then threaten to kick his ass and the local police do nothing about it... well here comes the federal government with its interstate commerces laws!!!!

No. According to the legislation, "At the request of a law enforcement official of a State or Indian tribe, the Attorney General may provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or any other form of assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that: constitutes a crime of violence, constitutes a felony under the laws of the State or Indian tribe; and is motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim, or is a violation of the hate crime laws of the State or Indian tribe."

(And, the Federal government always has jurisdiction in interstate crimes. It is why the FBI was created in the first place.)

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6288159 - 11/15/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They still do... but now if someone decides to go out 'n beat up some fags, he can be prosecuted for a hate crime.

only if the crime is motivated by prejudice based on sexual orientation. if i beat up a gay guy because i just must have that scarf, it's not considered a hate crime. what's more, if i beat up a gay guy for his scarf, even if i also happen to really despise gay people, it still isn't a hate crime. it must be the motive. we use motive as an aggravating or mitigating factor all the time when deciding how the courts should respond to crimes, and rightfully so.


--------------------


Edited by wilshire (11/16/06 12:02 AM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6288246 - 11/16/06 12:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I guess I may have been the victim of a hate crime.  As a kid I was the only white kid anywhere near my house.  My mom would drive me out of district, and lie about our place of residence just so I wouldnt get killed at the public school.

Still, I would occasionally get assaulted around the neighborhood.... whether I was out too late or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Of course they would scream obscenities at me, including racist remarks. 

I honestly dont think they would have done the same to someone of their skin color.  Does that make it a hate crime?  Maybe... but its silly to make the distinction.  The fact is they perpetrated assault and should be charge for that only.  Sure they hate me, but that shouldnt be illegal.  Only the assault should be illegal.

Hate Crime = Thought Crime  :thumbdown:

That said, I still think America is more loving and less hating than most societies.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: DieCommie]
    #6288847 - 11/16/06 08:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"I guess I may have been the victim of a hate crime"



No, your are not a Protected Favored group of the Government.... now maybe if you were a Jewish Pedophile....


You cant force Love through legislation

“Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well!” (From Liber al vel Legis 1:57)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: DieCommie]
    #6288901 - 11/16/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I checked out the ADL site today and found the definition of the term "hate crime"

http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/text_legis.asp

Anti-Defamation League (ADL): A hate crime is "any crime committed because of the victim’s actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, gender [male or female] or sexual orientation."


perceived

perceived

perceived


perceived


perceived

perceived


perceived

anybody can fucking PERCEIVE anything....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6289235 - 11/16/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

For any of you thinking this bill is a good thing, check out the wonders it is working in jolly old England.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6234960/an/0/page/7

Why are extreme Liberals and Jews always at the forefront of this shit?

Uh oh, I'm in Canada, that comment could send me to fucking jail.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: DieCommie]
    #6289303 - 11/16/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I guess I may have been the victim of a hate crime.  As a kid I was the only white kid anywhere near my house.  My mom would drive me out of district, and lie about our place of residence just so I wouldn't get killed at the public school.

Still, I would occasionally get assaulted around the neighborhood.... whether I was out too late or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Of course they would scream obscenities at me, including racist remarks. 

I honestly don't think they would have done the same to someone of their skin color.  Does that make it a hate crime?  Maybe... but its silly to make the distinction.  The fact is they perpetrated assault and should be charge for that only.  Sure they hate me, but that shouldn't be illegal.  Only the assault should be illegal.

Hate Crime = Thought Crime  :thumbdown:

That said, I still think America is more loving and less hating than most societies.




Yet if you were to beat up a black kid today, it is very possible you would be charged with a hate crime.


Any of you heard the story of fat nick?

"Nick Minucci, who was on trial for beating a black man in Howard Beach, was sentenced to 15 years in prison. The Queens DA had charged Minucci with a hate crime when he repeatedly hit Glenn Moore with a baseball bat in June 2005, given Minucci's use of the "n-word," which sparked a discussion of what's in a word when jurors were selected. Minucci continued to deny racism motivated his actions, telling the court after being sentenced:

    "I accept responsibility for my actions 100 percent. This had nothing to do with race. This had to do with me going to defend a friend. This was a hate crime because of Howard Beach." "

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/07/17/formerly_fat_ni.php

His sentence was lengthened for uttering a word during the assault.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6289559 - 11/16/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
. If free speech really was on the line the ACLU would be raising hell.


:rofl2:




I don't want to derail this thread, but I brought up the ACLU for a reason. While I think the ACLU is an organization that fosters more partisan mud-slinging than it does do any good, they are so committed to the notion of civil liberty that they are willing to alienate most liberals. Who else but the ACLU would campaign specifically to ensure that neo-nazis should be allowed to hold rallies on street corners?

The ACLU has a past of defending the right to preach hate. I am simply surprised that, now that it has become a federal issue, they aren't even involved.

I also think it is a mistake to assert that the creation of an anti-hate crimes bill is a hallmark of liberalism or leftism. As a leftist I would strongly disagree. It may have grown out of the "politically correct" cultural developments of the last few decades, and it may pretend to protect typically leftists groups such as the LGBT community or ethnic minorites, but that doesn't mean it isn't just another dumb idea from a corrupt and power hungry federal government. These things don't always boil down to left vs. right.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6289579 - 11/16/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The ACLU only protects the free speech of some.

Do you know how many times I have heard the term "cracker" "honky" etc. on TV. Not in a serious context, but one that was comical, and made light of the derogatory terms.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: DieCommie]
    #6289706 - 11/16/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I honestly dont think they would have done the same to someone of their skin color.

According to this new legislation, they could be prosecuted for a hate crime.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6289724 - 11/16/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

For any of you thinking this bill is a good thing, check out the wonders it is working in jolly old England.

Umm... this ain't England nor is The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005 in any way associated with England. The law enforcement of the United States and England are drastically different.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6289848 - 11/16/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hate crime legislation is all the same, no matter where you go.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6290191 - 11/16/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Did you actually read the link that you posted?  You seem to be disregarding the actual content of this bill, and you are quoting portions of it completely out of context.

For example, your quote regarding interstate commerce was preceding by this paragraph (referenced in your quote as "subparagraph A":

Quote:

(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability of any person.




You claim that the provisions you quoted are subject to any number of interpretations, but this definition of what consitutes "Hate Crime" is quite specific. 

Additionally, this does not take away state's rights, it grants them monetary and personnel assistance from the federal government, on request to aid them in prosecuting hate crimes.

Your claims that this bill has anything to do with free speech are completely off-base.  This bill deals strictly with the mitigating circumstances of violent crime.  It does not address prosecuting hate speech absent actual or attempted bodily harm, and only includes additional penalties if the motive for the violent crime was hatred of the victim's "group."

Take a moment and read the contents of this proposed bill, and perhaps you will recognize that your original source (myspace blog :crazy:) was reading something that simply ISN'T THERE.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6290214 - 11/16/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I checked out the ADL site today and found the definition of the term "hate crime"

http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/text_legis.asp

Anti-Defamation League (ADL): A hate crime is "any crime committed because of the victim’s actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, gender [male or female] or sexual orientation."


perceived

perceived

perceived


perceived


perceived

perceived


perceived

anybody can fucking PERCEIVE anything....




This means if the violent criminal who chooses to attack an old woman walking home with her groceries does so because he (mistakenly) perceives her to be a lesbian, he may face additional penalties for the motive of his violent crime. The perception of a violent criminal may not reflect reality, but it does contribute to motive.

BTW, the language you quoted is inaccurate. The text does not read "ANY crime," it reads:

Quote:

A person commits a Bias-Motivated Crime if, by reason of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender of another individual or group of individuals, he violates Section ______ of the Penal code (insert code provisions for criminal trespass, criminal mischief, harassment, menacing, intimidation, assault, battery and or other appropriate statutorily proscribed criminal conduct).




Again, this is far more specific than you are attempting to portray. Hate (or Bias)Crime legislation deals with violent crimes, not talk show banter.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6290216 - 11/16/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
. If free speech really was on the line the ACLU would be raising hell.


:rofl2:




I don't want to derail this thread, but I brought up the ACLU for a reason. While I think the ACLU is an organization that fosters more partisan mud-slinging than it does do any good, they are so committed to the notion of civil liberty that they are willing to alienate most liberals. Who else but the ACLU would campaign specifically to ensure that neo-nazis should be allowed to hold rallies on street corners?

The ACLU has a past of defending the right to preach hate. I am simply surprised that, now that it has become a federal issue, they aren't even involved.






These group of commies, who were founded by commies, have only one true goal -- the destruction of the United States.



ACLU founder and longtime executive director Roger Baldwin's infamous quote :

"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion.

I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=243727412764090


But I will admit that they're dead on in their opposition to the War on Drugs :thumbup:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6290391 - 11/16/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It seems a ridiculous thing to me,

I blame myself for the sad state of affairs


had I been more diligent in my message, and had every free thinking socially aware and responsible person before me, we would not have a country so violently uncaring, so willing to cast aside the unalienable rights we as free people should have. A government that has forgotten what it means to be oppressed, what it means to fight for liberty and fair representation.

My message has fallen victim to life, a most inexcusable excuse. I have unknowingly, without a whit of wit played right into the hands of the enemy. I should speak out against the evils of government in favor of less government, i should rail against the left with all my heart, against the right with all mine soul and by sheer force of will alone convince the people the proper course is to teach libertarianism at a much younger age so that we will raise a generation of people who have had certain fundamental truths made a part of them that bares no breech. A generation of people who understand as long as we depend on the mother state to protect us from ourselves and others we will constantly be at the whim, for who can with any logic, with any validity rail against the hand that feeds them. is this not a an action synonymous with suicide?

i ask you what would be done when the hand has removed itself. What would be done when one is left to fend for his self?

Well, that entity would perish or prevail. Would be strengthened or made frail. Either being better than being a slave. I for one would choose to believe the human spirit we all possess capable of the very thing we would need to triumph over the hardships of orphanage. I believe we would thrive given the chance to truly pursue our visions without the ever present threat of a discontinuation of support.










blah blah blah.

remember people, the left wants your money, this means your choices. the right wants your souls. So vote for the least government as possible, for choices and soul are the same thing in words that look different.


this is my plea.

Vote Nakors Junk bag 2016

the right man for the Job, not bound by party loyalties, bound by commonsense and empathy. Bound by vision.


--------------------
Asshole

Edited by nakors_junk_bag (11/16/06 06:38 PM)

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6290581 - 11/16/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

good luck "Sideshow Bob Roberts" :wink: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideshow_Bob_Roberts

"If voting really changed anything, it would be illegal." Emma Goldman


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6290950 - 11/16/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
These group of commies, who were founded by commies, have only one true goal -- the destruction of the United States.



ACLU founder and longtime executive director Roger Baldwin's infamous quote :

"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion.

I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=243727412764090


But I will admit that they're dead on in their opposition to the War on Drugs :thumbup:




So what? They're commies. What does that have to do with this topic? Nothing.

The point is that you are wrong to worry about Federal "thought police" breaking down your door because of you speaking your mind. But don't worry, if it gets to that point I will gladly (well not gladly but willingly) die in the inevitable revolution that will follow in order to protect the rights of you and me.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6290972 - 11/16/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
good luck "Sideshow Bob Roberts" :wink: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideshow_Bob_Roberts

"If voting really changed anything, it would be illegal." Emma Goldman




psychopath, no.  sociopath, certainly.  that is my obvious advantage.

Also, running for prez baby, fuck the small time mayoral shit. i wan the world.


--------------------
Asshole

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6291180 - 11/16/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

you do realize that emma goldman was a radical anarcho-communist right?

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6291200 - 11/16/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
. If free speech really was on the line the ACLU would be raising hell.


:rofl2:




I don't want to derail this thread, but I brought up the ACLU for a reason. While I think the ACLU is an organization that fosters more partisan mud-slinging than it does do any good, they are so committed to the notion of civil liberty that they are willing to alienate most liberals. Who else but the ACLU would campaign specifically to ensure that neo-nazis should be allowed to hold rallies on street corners?

The ACLU has a past of defending the right to preach hate. I am simply surprised that, now that it has become a federal issue, they aren't even involved.






These group of commies, who were founded by commies, have only one true goal -- the destruction of the United States.



ACLU founder and longtime executive director Roger Baldwin's infamous quote :

"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion.

I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=243727412764090


But I will admit that they're dead on in their opposition to the War on Drugs :thumbup:




:rolleyes:

The destruction of the United States? Are you kidding me?

The right of people to support communism and changes to the US resulting in a more unified people is anything but destruction. It's free speech, and the entire government of the United States was originally based to change because of the people. If the ACLU really could make people communists, then it would be only a logical result for a government "By the people, of the people and for the people" to actually serve the people. And clearly, based on the issues the ACLU supports, the communism they support is free, liberal communism, not some Stalinist-era Communism of gulags and Cold Wars.

The point of the matter is that if the ACLU could create a truly communist people, the government of the United States wouldn't be necessary. It'd be a much better world, if communism actually worked. And I'm not saying that in the long-term it won't work- just that up to this point the true goals of communism have been derailed in the socialist phase by power-hungry one-party states and violent dictators. C'est la vie.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Ravus]
    #6291322 - 11/16/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:It'd be a much better world, if communism actually worked.



Thats a pretty big quantifier.

In fact I see it as circular logic, as the idea of a system "working" means that its a "better world". If any system worked it could make a better world.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: DieCommie]
    #6291395 - 11/16/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Not really. National Socialism worked great after all. They got their fill of eugenics, medical experiments and racial purity for a few years, until the rest of the world finally came crashing down on them and their little experimentation camps.

Clearly, if communism worked, it would be the most efficient and free form of life. However, the problem is going from a capitalistic society to a communist one, and that middle stage is where all the failures have happened. To say communism itself works or doesn't work would not be tested, as all parties have only reached that middle stage and failed there. Perhaps there is another route to a stateless, classless society where all humans are connected without intimidation or force? After all, if we say capitalism is the highest form of freedom, then there isn't very much freedom and nothing to strive towards in the future. Capitalism and the free market give us the illusion of economic freedoms, yet the majority of people who aren't born rich have to spend their lives trudging through jobs they hate simply to support themselves in such an expensive, consumer-based society, and often end up hating themselves or becoming depressed over it.

I don't know what the answer to this is, but it would surely be a better world if everybody could do what they love and work together to make a more successful human society doing it.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Ravus]
    #6291411 - 11/16/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, communism would be terrific if it wasn't for those silly hairless apes mucking it up.  :mad:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6291508 - 11/16/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If it weren't for those silly hairless apes, there'd nothing to strive towards anyway. :wink:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Ravus]
    #6291549 - 11/16/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Good point.  :grin:  The deer and the antelope don't seem very ambitious.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6291560 - 11/16/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps if they were hairless? :wink:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Redstorm]
    #6291572 - 11/16/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, that's the problem. They have no motivation to earn money to go shopping at the Gap.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6291587 - 11/16/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps a nice pair of trendy slim chinos would speed the evolution process for them. Paired with a stylish designer hoodie, they wouldn't need hair on their body at all!

Vote designer clothing for wild animals in '08!

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6291670 - 11/16/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think any violent crime committed against someone can be constituted a hate crime, i cant recall anyone who shot someone out of love, hate crime legislation does nothing but hold individual cases higher then other ones, its simple discrimination and i dont see how any previous legislation is obsolete.

And like Wilshire said, Crimes should be prosecuted by motive, not because a particular individual is black or a homosexual.

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6291727 - 11/16/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If the fact that a particular individual IS African American, gay, Catholic, female, etc... is the sole or primary motive for the violence perpetrated against them, then this is a different variety of hatred.

Previous legislation will not become obsolete, but it will be supplemented by additional penalties for mitigating circumstances.

This already exists in the criminal justice system. If you rob a store using a loaded gun, and you assault the clerk during the commission of your crime, you will face stiffer sentencing than you would for each of those crimes committed independent of one another.

We also consider frame of mind when we differentiate "premeditated murder" from a "crime of passion."

This is the case with Hate Crime as differentiated from other motives for violent behavior towards a stranger.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6292692 - 11/17/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
I think any violent crime committed against someone can be constituted a hate crime, i cant recall anyone who shot someone out of love, hate crime legislation does nothing but hold individual cases higher then other ones, its simple discrimination and i dont see how any previous legislation is obsolete.

And like Wilshire said, Crimes should be prosecuted by motive, not because a particular individual is black or a homosexual.




Thank you, I was wating for someone to state something so fucking obvious.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6292985 - 11/17/06 05:20 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
I think any violent crime committed against someone can be constituted a hate crime, i cant recall anyone who shot someone out of love, hate crime legislation does nothing but hold individual cases higher then other ones, its simple discrimination and i dont see how any previous legislation is obsolete.

And like Wilshire said, Crimes should be prosecuted by motive, not because a particular individual is black or a homosexual.




hate crimes are prosecuted by motive. They are "hate" crimes. Hate being the operative word. one could conceivably hold th idea that hate is a motive for which hate crimes are committed.

Still those homos who pull over and solicit boys should have the utter shit beaten out of them and all their money stoled.

Not all crimes are crimes of bigotry, and that is the issue. Your government is trying to hold that all people are equal regardless of race, gender, age, or sexual disposition. A not unworthy goal. The problem arises when too much legislation is proposed and then ratified, thus making common speech and opinions a dangerous, potentially threatening experience for the person who s communicating ideas that are biased. A most ignoble sentiment is the one that censors the civilian.

And as the house becomes more and more bleeding hearted it will become harder and harder to preserve civil liberties. let us consider the nature of the beast.

The bleeding heart is the person who feels it is their duty to champion the little dog, to protect and stand up for the downtrodden and oppressed agenda. In doing this they maintain that racial slurs and fag beating all contribute to the shriveled ego that is responsible for the mire in which the downtrodden and afflicted are stuck in.

If only we could prevent people from being mean to these people, then the with the help of real people's, people who work and fight for a living, with the help of their money and our laws we can then begin to extricate these unfortunate souls from their plight.

Thus reducing the responsible man to the role of enabler often against his will and better ability to see long term significance.

Anyways, in most states its already illegal to call someone a nigger, I think,


--------------------
Asshole

Edited by nakors_junk_bag (11/17/06 05:32 AM)

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6293210 - 11/17/06 08:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

OK, one more time and then I am giving up on this clarification as a lost cause:

This bill does not make hate speech a crime.

"Anyways, in most states its already illegal to call someone a nigger, I think"

Incorrect.  It does, however, make the individual using the term appear to be stuck in a redneck timewarp.  :smirk:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6293275 - 11/17/06 08:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
Anyways, in most states its already illegal to call someone a nigger, I think,




If this were true, then Dave Chappelle is in big trouble.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6293562 - 11/17/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Any of you heard the story of fat nick?

"Nick Minucci, who was on trial for beating a black man in Howard Beach, was sentenced to 15 years in prison. The Queens DA had charged Minucci with a hate crime when he repeatedly hit Glenn Moore with a baseball bat in June 2005, given Minucci's use of the "n-word," which sparked a discussion of what's in a word when jurors were selected. Minucci continued to deny racism motivated his actions, telling the court after being sentenced:

"I accept responsibility for my actions 100 percent. This had nothing to do with race. This had to do with me going to defend a friend. This was a hate crime because of Howard Beach." "

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/07/17/formerly_fat_ni.php

His sentence was lengthened for uttering a word during the assault.




There's a bit more to this story than his use of the "n" word.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16722500&BRD=2731&PAG=461&dept_id=574903&rfi=6

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6293602 - 11/17/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

So they were in his neighborhood to steel a car, if anything, I think fat nick did the city a service.  :smirk:

" “No,” mumbled Agostini, who is not being prosecuted for his involvement in the incident and is having a drug possession charge dropped in exchange for his cooperation with authorities and testimony against Minucci."

Wanna know what I think of Mr. Agostini's testimony against his friend?

Reading your article only makes me more upset. Did fat nick handle this the way he should have? Of course not, but if I lived in Queens and had some people in my neighborhood plotting to steel cars, I wouldn't care what race they were. If they happened to be black, so be it.

This neighborhood has a particularly bad record when it comes to whites and blacks not getting along. This case is complete bullshit.

  Agostini’s father was on hand to hear his son’s testimony, drawing scowls from Maria Minucci, Nick’s mother, with each blow Frank delivered to Minucci’s defense. She whispered back at him, “ass ,” and Nick’s grandfather mouthed the word “rat” as the younger Frank left the witness stand.

SAYS WHO??!?!?!?!

I have never seen a more creative piece of writing in my life.

Your article is a joke, and only further infuriates me.

Fat nick should not have been charged with a hate crime.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6294376 - 11/17/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Mmm, OK, I guess I know where you are coming from now.  It's perfectly fine for "Fat Nick" to take the law into his own hands & beat someone's skull in with a baseball bat because he suspects they might be a car thief, but Hate Crime legislation is a violation of our constitutional rights.

:rolleyes:

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
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Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6294493 - 11/17/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
Anyways, in most states its already illegal to call someone a nigger, I think,




If this were true, then Dave Chappelle is in big trouble.


\
No One has pressed charges you fucking idiot!


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Asshole

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Veritas]
    #6294508 - 11/17/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
OK, one more time and then I am giving up on this clarification as a lost cause:

This bill does not make hate speech a crime.

"Anyways, in most states its already illegal to call someone a nigger, I think"

Incorrect.  It does, however, make the individual using the term appear to be stuck in a redneck timewarp.  :smirk:




Incorrect you dumbasshole, it makes the persom liable unto any warrant agry fuckface wants to have scripted against him.

Grow up and live a real life. Its not all shroomery opinion!


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Asshole

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6294516 - 11/17/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Banned for three weeks for being such a potty mouth.



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Phred]
    #6294522 - 11/17/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You caught him before I could! :crankey:

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Redstorm]
    #6294535 - 11/17/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You snooze, you lose.



Phred


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Offlineelduque
Major LeagueInfidel
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Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 246
Loc: Eastern AL.
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Phred]
    #6294570 - 11/17/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

democrats make tough gun laws...therefore they suck!


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We have a little war going on here. I just heard an ambulance go around the corner. what will it be tonight? the son who kicked his mother down the stairs? the father who beat his wife to death with the telephone? the baby who got forgotten by his mother because the drugs were really good today? you never know. you never know and you never get to know unless it's you, and if its you, well, you dont want to know. ~Henry Rollins "Art To Choke Hearts"

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
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Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: Phred]
    #6294581 - 11/17/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Banned for three weeks for being such a potty mouth.



Phred




should extend his ban for his terrible grammar too.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6295008 - 11/17/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Grammar bans would result in reducing the active membership to about 15 people.  :tongue:

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: Democrat Control Means Hate Bill Will Pass [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6299067 - 11/19/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm glad the Democrats won. This way they can pull out troops from Iraq, cure cancer with stem cells and legalize weed.

The Republicans must never get power. They are right winger fascist with extreme ideas.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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