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InvisibleVeritas
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The Condition My Condition is in
    #6285510 - 11/15/06 12:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Condition

1.  A mode or state of being.

2.
  a. A state of health.
  b. A state of readiness or physical fitness.

3. A disease or physical ailment: a heart condition.

4. Social position; rank.

5. One that is indispensable to the appearance or occurrence of another; prerequisite.

6. One that restricts or modifies another; a qualification.

7. (conditions) Existing circumstances.




The discussion regarding unconditional love in Basilides' "Just Want to Say" thread inspired me to consider the conditions under which unconditional love is possible.  :wink:

It seem to me that both conditional AND unconditional love actually arise from the same (and sole) condition:  our "mode  or state of being."

When our state of being is centered externally, focused on blaming or praising outside circumstances for our own condition, we experience conditional love for ourself AND others.

When our state of being is centered internally, focused on taking 100% responsibility for the way we experience our outside circumstances and create our condition, we may experience unconditional love and acceptance of ourself AND others.

If we ask ourselves where we are centered, and examine the consequences (preferable and non-preferable) of that state of being, we may decide that a shift is in order.  If we experiment with shifting back and forth, and take careful (scientific) note of the results, IMO it becomes obvious that we are creating our experience.

What condition is YOUR condition in?  I just dropped in to find out...

:wink:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6285550 - 11/15/06 12:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

All true. I used to not believe in unconditional love. Now that I have the personal power to understand what it is I can say that one has no hope of lasting happiness without it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285593 - 11/15/06 12:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with both of the above posts. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Icelander]
    #6285822 - 11/15/06 01:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

what about unconditional healing.
this radiant effort need not be conditioned
nor need it be clouded with concepts about love,

peel that back and see more light.
good music.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6285960 - 11/15/06 02:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I use unconditional acceptance.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6286037 - 11/15/06 02:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Me, conditioned to break conditions.
I really don't like them at all, but unfortunately I am consumed a lot by their necessity.

Condition human.

{feel free to ignore. I think I am just crossing over again :grin:}


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6286187 - 11/15/06 03:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Being "centered internally" is a condition.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6286383 - 11/15/06 05:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, this is my point:

Quote:

It seem to me that both conditional AND unconditional love actually arise from the same (and sole) condition: our "mode or state of being."




I'm glad we agree!  :smile:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6286666 - 11/15/06 06:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm confused. You're saying unconditional love is conditional?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6287076 - 11/15/06 08:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I'm saying that both unconditional AND conditional love depend upon an internal condition.  Conditional love appears to depend upon external conditions (personal qualities of the other, kind actions of the other towards you, absence of objectionable behaviors by the other), but, in fact, is is dependent upon your state of being.

Unconditional love, by contrast, is clearly not motivated by external conditions, and cannot be practiced unless one has centered their state of being within.  As long as we are blaming other people for our reactions to them, and believe that our circumstances create our experience, we cannot love ourself or others unconditionally.  This is the prerequisite (condition) for the state of being (condition) in which one can love unconditionally.  :grin:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6287427 - 11/15/06 10:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

dont cute kids have unconditional love for their parents
it is conditioned but offered without conditions
i.i. after imprinting the chicks love mommy without checking the contract for what they get in return.

hence conditioned but unconditional


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6288754 - 11/16/06 10:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Could be, or this could be semi-conditional attachment, which is the more-innocent version of the conditional attachment we call romantic love. 

Primate babies are a bit more picky than chicks, and do not imprint the first thing that moves.  If they are not cuddled and fed and changed, they do not attach.  (After that, the story gets very ugly, but that's a topic for another thread. :tongue:)

Usually, though, the baby attaches to their caregiver (care = condition for attachment), and idolizes her (or more rarely, him).  The adult attaches to the projected image of a loveable human (loveable qualities = condition), and idolizes him or her. 

The baby usually manages to maintain this idolatry for 13 or 14 years.  The adult manages it for 6 months, tops, and then begins to secretly detest the attachment object.

From there, the individuals involved may undertake the formation of a real (honest, open, conflicted, constantly fluctuating) relationship with one another.

They may also leave in a huff, feeling betrayed by the disillusionment they have experienced.


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6289141 - 11/16/06 12:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i think i read that about ten times and i hear its message but how many times?


--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6289214 - 11/16/06 12:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:... The adult manages it for 6 months, tops, and then begins to secretly detest the attachment object.



I am with current wife 16 years
it still feels like early in month number 3, honest.
maybe I get another 20 yrs before it degenerates into devenerated objects.


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6289338 - 11/16/06 01:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Or maybe it is not conditional attachment, aka infatuation, but actual LOVE.  :heart: :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6289348 - 11/16/06 01:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

or unconditional infatuation?


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6289555 - 11/16/06 02:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Infatuation seems to be induced by a combination of novelty and idealization.  The chemical "high" continues for approximately 6 months. It is possible that you could experience infatuation if you continued to idealize your partner, but few of us are capable of maintaining the illusion of perfection for very long.  :wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6289565 - 11/16/06 02:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

maybe I am an irregular verb
also I take medicine to assist in illusions


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6290109 - 11/16/06 04:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ah ha!  Conditioning your condition!  Thus, an infatuated worm.  :wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6290274 - 11/16/06 05:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

fatty


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6290817 - 11/16/06 07:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I am infatuated with fats.  :tongue:  Cheese, ice cream, cake, egg nog...sigh.  I wish the novelty would wear off the way it does with human infatuations.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6291071 - 11/16/06 08:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I only clicked this thread to find more references to The Big Lebowski, and, upon finding no more, to call immediate attention to the initial reference to The Big Lebowski.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291089 - 11/16/06 09:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

It is not a reference to the Big Lebowski, young one, but a reference to a song that was popular prior to your birth.  :smirk:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6291128 - 11/16/06 09:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ahh, but The Big Lebowski featured the tune, and thus the perspective that the thread title is a reference to The Big Lebowski is a valid one, through the song's relationship with The Big Lebowski.

Also, all "The Big Lebowski's" should have been italicized. This and the previous off-topic response was merely my way of presenting that I agree with your points and had nothing more to add! :thumbup:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291145 - 11/16/06 09:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ohhhh, very subtle.  I would never have imagined that you were agreeing with me.  :wink:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6291188 - 11/16/06 09:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

True fact - I petitioned Ythan for an "In Agreement With Veritas" mood, as it would represent it being a continual state of being for me. The idea was dropped after technical difficulties involving the corresponding emoticon - the artist that was commissioned for the project was unfortunately caught in a burning car ignited by a gang of German nihlists with machetes and a marmot. Their cruel laughter and taunts of "Vi believe in nothing" framed his last moment... :frown:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291193 - 11/16/06 09:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Also, I never got my hug. :frown:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291215 - 11/16/06 09:25 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Awww, bubbe!  :hug:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6291241 - 11/16/06 09:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Tusen takk. :wink:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6293524 - 11/17/06 12:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:rofl:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlineshroom_me
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6294319 - 11/17/06 05:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

unconditional love if possible would also then include your spouse to be free to do what they want and youd still have to love them. so say you wife is fucking some guy in your bed, "oh i love you unconditionally baby" seems kinda inpractical, or possible in my opinion. :wink:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: shroom_me]
    #6294404 - 11/17/06 06:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There's no "have to" about it.  Unconditional love is offered without strings, and is entirely volitional.  In your example, the spouse who prefers a monogamous relationship could certainly say "I no longer want to be married to you, as your behavior is offensive and hurtful to me."  Does this mean that they withdraw their love?  Perhaps they do.  If they were loving for the other person's sake, rather than their own, they may decide that their spouse no longer deserves to be loved.  This is, of course, NOT unconditional love.

If it is their practice to remain openhearted and loving for their own sake, in support of their own beliefs, they may set boundaries around the way they want to be treated, but they will not feel the need to become hardened and cold towards those who violate those boundaries.  They will forgive the actions, choose the path of action which supports their values, and stay centered in Love.  They may also file for divorce, decide not to see their former spouse for a time, seek counseling for their shock and disappointment, curl up in bed and cry themselves to sleep, or do any number of things which a "normal" lover would do after a betrayal.  What they will not do is betray themselves.  :heart:


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Offlineshroom_me
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Re: The Condition My Condition is in [Re: Veritas]
    #6295871 - 11/18/06 02:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

excellent point i must say, very well put. :thumbup:


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