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OfflineBooby
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Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower.
    #6285029 - 11/15/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The company we keep directs our choice in the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference. True or False?
---------------------

To-day is my birthday, take the time to leave me a rating.

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OfflineVampireSlayer
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285098 - 11/15/06 07:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

This is true for the most part! there are differences in groups but I think overall it is society that really controls everything even group activity.


--------------------
I Don't come to fight flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high and low places

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285175 - 11/15/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

True and False..

Indirectly, yes..
Directly, no..

BTW: I was thinking about making a post about "group mentality", but you hit the spot!
Neat post!


"Refuse it, and 'you' will never grasp it..."
~Unknown


:happyheart::thumbup:

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Gomp]
    #6285288 - 11/15/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

in my experience it is the group at large, the nation, with all its media, politics, and other reality funnels that often direct the individual's drive,

notsomuch in smaller groups (friends, company, community,) where i find more individual power,

in my life that is.

Quote:

"Refuse it, and 'you' will never grasp it..."
~Unknown




Allow it, and 'you' shall be free from it...
~Me?

:wink:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


--------------------

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285378 - 11/15/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

True only if you allow it. Like with many things, if we don't think for ourselves, we will often default to the popular opinion/view of the culture we identify with.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285437 - 11/15/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

False. No one directs us but ourselves. Your friends do not control your mind, even if you choose to passively accept their POV as your own. The acceptance is yours, thus the direction is yours.

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OfflineLion
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6285453 - 11/15/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
False.  No one directs us but ourselves.  Your friends do not control your mind, even if you choose to passively accept their POV as your own.  The acceptance is yours, thus the direction is yours.


Last night I was sitting in a car with my friends getting reallllly stoned, and the energy in the car was negative and everyone was talking about how fucked up their lives are and how they wish they had another chance, they didn't know what they were doing with their lives, etc....  And I realized that as much as I love them and want them to be content, recently I have been taking on their worldviews as my own - some part of me, my 'shadow' if you will,  has a tremendous need to weigh itself down by perceiving burdens that I'm not even really bearing.  And when I step back and look at it I'm in a good place now, intellectually, socially, spiritually.  The mind is a trickster, and at all times we must strive to be aware of the energy it chooses to receive from the people with whom we interact.

:laugh: :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285511 - 11/15/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Man are you ever wrong. I quit being susceptible to this type of peer pressure in high school. I take full responsibility for everything that I am and every choice that I make. It is all my construction.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285575 - 11/15/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Really? Maybe this is a recent occurance for you but you have told me many times that you have bowed to peer pressure in your life. Especially in the home and with relatives.  :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Icelander]
    #6285589 - 11/15/06 10:28 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Your wrong. Not to the extent of determining my tastes and my life philosophy. Have I compromised or not revealed my true opinion...of course I have. Just because I do not reveal my opinion does not mean that I bow to anothers. What I told you was that I have hidden my true feeling on certain matters. I have always gone my own way...even in high school. If I did not I would have never chosen the path that I take.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285610 - 11/15/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

No you're wrong. :grin:

Whenever your actions change in the slightest to compensate for another, when you do not agree with their position, you are bowing to peer pressure. It's just a matter of degree. Like Jesus said. Don't go looking to judge too soon as you may be an offender yourself and not be able or willing to see it in yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Icelander]
    #6285623 - 11/15/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

No. Youre wrong.
Original post:
"The company we keep directs our choice in the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference"

If you want to be that picky, then only the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference are the issues at hand.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285644 - 11/15/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

But the thread is entitled "Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower."

If you refrain from actions which would be in alignment with your values in order to gain acceptance, then you have subverted your will to appease the "group energy."  :shrug:  It's a bummer, but it is accurate to call this "bowing to peer pressure."

I do it, at some level, on a daily basis.  :crazy:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285659 - 11/15/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
No. Youre wrong.
Original post:
"The company we keep directs our choice in the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference"

If you want to be that picky, then only the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference are the issues at hand.




Of course I want to be picky. I call it getting to the meat of the issue.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Icelander]
    #6285664 - 11/15/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

All right, all right...I'll agree if you'll just shut up about it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285686 - 11/15/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

AH HA!  Bowing to peer pressure already!  :lol:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6285687 - 11/15/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

We can save it until your therapy appointment on Friday. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6285696 - 11/15/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
False. No one directs us but ourselves. Your friends do not control your mind, even if you choose to passively accept their POV as your own. The acceptance is yours, thus the direction is yours.




Bingo. Not only that, but if the company you keep judges you based on what clothes you wear or how you speak, then they're probably not great people. Any TRUE friend will not even notice those things unless you ask them to.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: IamHungry]
    #6285712 - 11/15/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"then they're probably not great people"

That doesn't mean anything. They are just dreaming. What is "great"?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6285922 - 11/15/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

How about: We empower the State to have power over us. i.e. We give our heart to Jesus therefore Jesus has power over us. How does the conduct of a Christian differ from a Muslim. I'd be interested to hear the Muslim responses if there are any amongst us.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6286209 - 11/15/06 01:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The company we keep directs our choice in the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference. True or False?

True, in some sense. Any group you belong to influences your behavior. It doesn't always 'direct' it in an authoritarian sense - although, it can - but to believe a person can remained uninfluenced by those around him/her is naive. Some individual may react against the group conformity, but this individual is being controlled just as much as the others. Interestingly enough, it seems groups of three or four cause the most conformity and larger groups have less conformity.

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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6286869 - 11/15/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Not necessarily true. Look at mob mentalities where all individuals in effect become one.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: aelephant]
    #6287108 - 11/15/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They do not become one, they all decide to do the same thing. This is very different. Panicked humans may act like a herd, but we are not, in fact, herd animals.

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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6287126 - 11/15/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They act as one. The point is that large groups do not necessarily lead to individuals expressing uniqueness. Another example of unconscious conformity would be groupthink.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: aelephant]
    #6287146 - 11/15/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The individuals who compose a panicked mob will react similarly, but not "as one." This is not an accurate example of conformity decreasing relative to group size. A mob of ANY size will behave like a mob. A larger mob will cause more damage.

What do you mean by "groupthink," exactly? Are you asserting that humans unconsciously conform their thoughts? This is not the definition with which I am familiar.

"A mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' strivings for unanimity override their motivation to realistically appraise alternative courses of action."
~Irving Janis

This sounds completely conscious and voluntary. In what way are individual "strivings for unanimity" an example of a group acting as one?

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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6287189 - 11/15/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They lose their individual ability to rationalize and instead are led by a group mentality.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: aelephant]
    #6287262 - 11/15/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They don't lose anything. They willingly choose to abdicate their power to "something greater" :tongue: than themselves. Sound familiar. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/15/06 07:40 PM)

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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Icelander]
    #6287305 - 11/15/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Or less than.

Groupthink is cited as one of the causes of Pearl Harbor.

Symptoms of groupthink psychologist Irving Janis identified include:

1. Incomplete survey of alternatives
2. Incomplete survey of objectives
3. Failure to examine risks of preferred choice
4. Failure to re-appraise initially rejected alternatives
5. Poor information search
6. Selective bias in processing information at hand
7. Failure to work out contingency plans

It's also notable to mention that groupthink can be conscious or unconscious, meaning that the individual doesn't willingly do anything.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

Edited by aelephant (11/15/06 07:51 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: aelephant]
    #6287370 - 11/15/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

People do all those things listed every day and don't do it in a mob. That says nothing about anything IMO. I have been in mobs and when I saw something going in a direction I didn't like, I left. I did this because I wasn't that scared of what the others might think nor was I looking for a violent outlet for my frustrations, and I trusted my wits and physical skills to get me out of any jams that might be caused by my leaving the group.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Icelander]
    #6287420 - 11/15/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

More power to you! It sounds as if you are an independent thinker.
I think that we are a little off track and that my point may have been lost in this discussion of semantics.

I suppose I have two points:

1. The size of the group does not determine the extent to which one is influenced.
2. The influence of others may be unconscious.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: aelephant]
    #6287613 - 11/15/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Better put may be that we choose to let certain things be unconscious to ourselves. It's an easy out. It's still choosing. We all have a choice and always choose something. When one chooses to be asleep then choices we make seem unconscious.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6287631 - 11/15/06 09:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It definitely influences us, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it directs our will.


--------------------

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Silversoul]
    #6288360 - 11/16/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
It definitely influences us, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it directs our will.




I'm exploring a possibility that the future is predictable based on group ideology.

Is the Apocalypse and Armageddon a Christian obsession where group ideology flowers into mass crucification. AND: Should the flower of our youth be educated to avoid racial extinction.

In other words: Should we recognize the risks of ideologies, and nurture sustainable world views.

Edited by Booby (11/16/06 02:21 AM)

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Misery loves company. [Re: Booby]
    #6288406 - 11/16/06 02:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Let me go so far as to postulate that the crucification of Jesus has left an innate desire amongst the crucifiers to be crucified.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6288826 - 11/16/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
The company we keep directs our choice in the clothes we wear, the food we eat and our voting preference. True or False?
---------------------

To-day is my birthday, take the time to leave me a rating.




There are many factors that determine our decisions, not the least of which is the environment. Friends and family, plus all the people we see on a daily basis, definitely help to direct our future decisions, but they cannot necessarily control them without extreme energy expendenture on their part. Genetics is also a factor that affects our individual willpower, whether it's politically correct or not to discuss genetics' influence on the individual's personality, and therefore no environment can ever have absolute control over an organism in any one topic, except through death.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6290296 - 11/16/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said: Should we recognize the risks of ideologies, and nurture sustainable world views.




From a Christian perspective No, because the Rapture is a good thing that takes the Chosen away from this world.

Quote:

Booby said:Is the Apocalypse and Armageddon a Christian obsession where group ideology flowers into mass crucification.




again No, because all true Christians will already have been removed, leaving only the scum and who cares about them?

Quote:

Booby said:Should the flower of our youth be educated to avoid racial extinction.




You really are dense aren't you.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6290888 - 11/16/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, No Flaming!

"Rapture" is a word of Latin origin, not Hebrew or Greek, the languages of the Bible. (The earliest translation of the Bible was into Latin, and the word rapture comes from there.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

So there is a dispute whether the Rapture will ever occur.

The Tribulation (or "Great Tribulation") is an event referred to in the New Testament of the Bible at Matthew 24:21 ("For then shall be great tribulation..." - King James Version) and other passages. In the futurist view of Christian eschatology, the Tribulation is a relatively short period of time where believers will experience worldwide persecution and be purified and strengthened by it. This view was introduced to the modern church by John Nelson Darby, the father of dispensationalism, became widely accepted through the notes in the Scofield Reference Bible of 1909,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulation

Shaky, very shaky evidence.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6291024 - 11/16/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You can't flame yourself, duh. :rolleyes:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291033 - 11/16/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

He's a dumbass and you know it.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6291052 - 11/16/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It does seem to be rather self-evident, yes.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291205 - 11/16/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I hope you didn't think I was being serious. I'm just preoccupied because all I am concerned with anymore is the factor that serves as my bottom line - sales. I was probably just being grumpy. :wink:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291248 - 11/16/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hey-You're a Mod now. Got to expect some effects to your character...

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6291256 - 11/16/06 07:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Come to my store and buy a Dora's Talking Kitchen or get the fuck out. :mad:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291270 - 11/16/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The Hydra rears it's head.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6291373 - 11/16/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Come to my store and buy a Dora's Talking Kitchen or get the fuck out. :mad:





Dora is the Antichrist, and a sure sign of the coming Rapture.  Prepare!  Repent!  Accept Jesus and you shall be SAVED from eternity in the Talking Kitchen!!

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6291412 - 11/16/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

'Rears it's Head' is like sheathing a pistol only I didn't mean it that way, in case you were wondering.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Booby]
    #6291415 - 11/16/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I wasn't addressing you, I was praying to the God of Walmart.

BTW, sheathe a sword, holster a pistol.

Edited by Veritas (11/16/06 08:04 PM)

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Group Energy Directs Individual Willpower. [Re: Veritas]
    #6291424 - 11/16/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I learn something new almost every day.

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