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 bent
bent1
Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 204
Loc: ny
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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 Casing Incubation... Necessary? 
#5408991 - 03/16/06 03:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've read in a few posts some people just put they're casings into their grow chamber right after making it with no incubation time. Is there anyone that has done this and what were the results? I'm wondering if it's even neccesary.
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 cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: bent]
#5409037 - 03/16/06 03:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Man your ratings suck. What's your problem?
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Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.
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Limelight_Liver
rushing on
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 26
Loc: outside the guilded cage
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: cappa]
#5409047 - 03/16/06 03:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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A friend of mine (really, a friend of mine, not AFOAF) said it wasn't, he's been doing this for a while so I trust him.
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Delinquentes
TIMMMAYYYYYYY
 
Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Hidin' in a bowl of rice
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: cappa]
#5409054 - 03/16/06 03:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I noticed that too and wondered if bad karma was sliding in to town.
Casings muse be incubated for the mycelium to recover from being crushed, grated, broken up or otherwise accosted while preparing it for the casing itself.
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"The price of meat has just gone up,
and your old lady has just gone down!" ~~ Zappa
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: Delinquentes]
#5409983 - 03/16/06 07:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Heres the thing guys once you put the casing into the FC myc will start to so down mainly because of the temp drop. The myc doesn't see any light yet and fresh air isn't a factor down deep in that casing layer be it 1/4" or 1". Now during the prepinning stage you want the casing to stay in the vegetative state this is more than just a time saving factor it also allows you to use the coincidence of all your pinning triggers together which gives you the best bang for the buck without a doubt! I will say casing thicknesses running under 1/2" can often be cased and fruited at the same time without sacrificing pin count to a great extent. I often case and fruit fast running strains without any problems as far as yield is concerned. Bottom line it doesn't hurt and non-incubating coir casings can actually be quite beneficial IMO.
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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal 
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: hyphae]
#5410029 - 03/16/06 08:05 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you saying that it's okay to 'fast fruit'(no incubation time after casing) is only benefitial when dealing with shallow substrate and casing layer? I read what you posted several times and I'm still confused. Can you clarify a little please Hyphae?
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Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.
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kungpow
SeasonedPsychonaut
Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 1,669
Loc: AaAaAaAa
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: cappa]
#5410075 - 03/16/06 08:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok so if I am putting a 1/2" 60/40 verm/coir casing on top of my monotub with a 5" substrate depth do I need to incubate it. I usually incubate untill I see even myc coming through. Should I stop incubating when I place the casing layer on, and just place it out in the light? Will this give me better results.
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Monotub #3 - check out my best grow to date!!!!
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: cappa]
#5410077 - 03/16/06 08:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have cased and fruited aggressive substrains the same day but I usually like to incubate for a few days with everything else. Incubation after casing is considered prepinning where prepinning parameters should be followed. Casing depth is the biggest key factor reguardless of substrate depth.
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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: hyphae]
#5410351 - 03/16/06 09:43 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for clarifying! 
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Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 16 years, 19 days
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: cappa]
#5410383 - 03/16/06 09:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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this is really interesting
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as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one);
a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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Cenebite
Closet CaseShroomer
Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 348
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: DaCultivater]
#6271658 - 11/11/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Excellent post! Just spawned WBS to Coir, let colonize for 4-5 days, then cased. I normally have issues with overlay, so I only let the casing incubate for 24 hours before fruiting (after casing layer applied) we'll test this theory now won't we!
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: Cenebite]
#6271671 - 11/11/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I usually case and than wait a day or so,patch and put in the greenhouse
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Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: Blutjager]
#6271797 - 11/11/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I spawn.... wait 10 days.
case... wait 3 days
patch... Then place in Fc.
I get this!
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 Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
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4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: Oatman2000]
#6272353 - 11/11/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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i don't necessarily "incubate" them at all... at least not in the sense of keeping them warm.
after casing i'll cover and wait, to keep CO2 up and light exposure down. you want to draw mycelium into the casing layer so that its partially colonized, as this brings the best pinsets.
you want to get it looking something like this, just prior to the point where pins start to show:
so by careful timing we're helping nature along and trying to coordinate that even partial colonization right with the mycelium's schedule of producing pins. that "half and half" look of mycelium/casing material will yield excellent pinsets, we're keeping the humid microclimate but plenty of mycelium is also being exposed to FAE and light... but its balanced between the two. too much or too little mycelium up at the surface, both results in diminished pinsets.
so basically do what it takes to coordinate that timing. realize that vegetative growth continues a few days once in fruiting... and in some cases those few days is all it needs. in other cases, we need to keep covered and block light & fae (aka incubating your casing) to lengthen the mycelium's "schedule" as mentioned above, so you have a chance to grow into the casing layer more before its time to produce pins.
so short or no "incubation" period conditions... times you can get away with or maybe even desire the "fast fruiting" (and this should help clarify the point hyphae was making too):
1. more nutritive than normal casing layer (high coir content for example)
2. thin casing layer
3. substrain known to pin quickly
4. (hasnt been mentioned yet) you waited too long to apply your casing layer - substrate was 100% for a few days and YOU were running late, but your mycelium is still on its schedule in these situations use a thin layer and fruit ASAP
conditions when you want to incubate the casing, to delay pinning, and to give the mycelium more time to draw into the casing layer (these are basically the opposite of some of above):
1. low nutrition (peat/verm) or no nutrition casing (verm)
2. thicker casing layers
typically for best results, let the mycelium be the boss! at least with the methods i've come to use, i incubate the casing regardless, and peek to see how things are coming along. i let my casing tell me when its time to get it into the FC - the basic "wait until mycelium is poking through" trick. sometimes they seem eager and i get to fruiting only 24h later, sometimes i keep them covered up for as many as 5 or 6 days. some remaining factor that hasnt been mentioned is the moisture content of your casing material, this will also change how quickly the mycelium will colonize into it... so as if its not confusing enough that's one more thing to monitor... of course incorect application of pH buffers can also slow growth (if you're buffered too far up it will really hinder growth) but again, learn to listen to your casings... with practice simply observing your grow will give you the answers you need about what to do, when. 
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: creamcorn]
#6274749 - 11/12/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Incubating simply allows the momentum of growth to be carried on into the casing run there by saving more energy for primordia formation if properly done of course. Those who still insist on coir casing layers I do not recommend incubating as you will need to work against the myc inherented aggression to consume more substrate (coir) which in all reality you are working against yourself and IMHO does not make alot of mycosense.
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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Primate
former addict
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 855
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: creamcorn]
#6275354 - 11/12/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said:
some remaining factor that hasnt been mentioned is the moisture content of your casing material, this will also change how quickly the mycelium will colonize into it... so as if its not confusing enough that's one more thing to monitor...
Is "near saturation" ideal for myc penetrating your casing layer? or a bit drier?
-Prim
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"Power to the peaceful"
-Micheal Franti and Spearhead
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: Primate]
#6277993 - 11/13/06 05:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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When bringing a casing layer to near saturation is the point you don't go beyond immediately after it starts evaporating so it is indeed slightly drier but remember myc thrives in this nearly saturated environment where there is evaporation occurring also. In other words misting to near saturation and allowing it to evaporate for a few hours before bringing it up to near saturation again is a cycle that the myc thrives in.
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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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SeaOfGreen
Stoned
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 155
Loc: North Carolina
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: hyphae]
#6278008 - 11/13/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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hi all, this is som really great info. hyphae i would love it if you would list some of the better known faster fruiting strains. all this talk about aggressive substrains gives me motivation to work with agar. like thatll happen.
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Casing Incubation... Necessary? [Re: SeaOfGreen]
#6278111 - 11/13/06 08:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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unfortunately there can't be such a list... a "substrain" is something you'll have to come up with, either through agar isolation like you mention, through cloning, or something similar... and you'll have to grow it out and get to know it to see if it is agressive or not, and judge from there. a "strain" that you receive from a vendor is a sample of spores, and spores can combine in many sorts of random ways with random results... so we really can't make sweeping generalizations that says "xxxx is agressive"... things would be different if we could legally buy/sell/trade live cultures.
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