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Offlinesacred_mushroom
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America: Freedom to Fascism
    #6275688 - 11/12/06 04:54 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Uploaded in it's entirety for the first time last month. I havn't seen the whole thing yet but I'm watching right now.

:thumbup: :thumbup: So far!!

Check it out if you haven’t already!!

[url=
&q=AMERICA%3A+FREEDOM+TO+FASCISM&hl=en]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=AMERICA%3A+FREEDOM+TO+FASCISM&hl=en[/url]


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Wild mushrooms have the power to increase ones awareness of reality, promote critical thought on the ways of mankind, and encourage people to THINK!! THINK OUT OF THE BOX!! ..These are gifts given directly to you and me from the living soils of our planet, a road map provided by the Earth which may - or may not make possible for one to break the chains from evil powers in our world that have successfully immobilized the souls of masses, given the illusion of freedom, and repressed revolution of the human spirit - The tools provided by the Earth tell us to "WAKE UP! REMOVE YOUR MIND FROM THE DELUSIONAL BOX OF CONSUMERIST PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT, LIVE FREE, DEFY AUTHORITY! AND NEVER ABANDON THE QUEST FOR ULTIMATE TRUTH!"


Edited by sacred_mushroom (11/12/06 05:04 PM)


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: sacred_mushroom]
    #6275879 - 11/12/06 05:54 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

IMNSHO..this film misses the mark because it spends too much time misrepresenting the progressive income tax and falsely asserting that the income tax is illegal ..while there might not be a congressional statute that expressly authourizes the income tax as such..congress does have the power to delegate the assessment and collection of taxes.. and the enforcement thereof.. to the executive branch (theres no act of congress that says you cant snort cocaine either)...moreover..the lack of a graduated income tax is one of the main reasons fascists have taken over since its absence promotes the growth of economic inequality.. and economic power inevitably becomes political power...

F2F is correct in implicating the FRB and the fiat currency system..but they dont develop this point enough...fiat currency virtually makes fascism not only inevitable..but necessary as well..since it pushes us into a choice between low wages and high prices.. the former creating a disparity of wealth that quickly corrodes democracy and the latter creating the conditions that brought in hitler and mussolini in europe...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6277922 - 11/13/06 05:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
fiat currency virtually makes fascism not only inevitable..but necessary as well..since it pushes us into a choice between low wages and high prices..



Where do you get any of this from?

How on earth does fiat currency force us into anything?  This doesn't make sense at all.

Milton Friedman, one of the greatest defenders of freedom the world has ever seen, and, coincidentally, a Nobel-Price winning economist, has often advocated fiat money, both in his published works, and in his interviews.  In fact, he's even gone so far as to put together works that prove pegged currency is every bit as faulty as fiat currency, and often more so (check out http://www.amazon.com/Money-Mischief-Episodes-Monetary-History/dp/015661930X ).

Do you have anything to back this up?

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
the former creating a disparity of wealth that quickly corrodes democracy and the latter creating the conditions that brought in hitler and mussolini in europe...



You know it's funny, but I'm pretty sure promises of "equality of wealth" corrode democracy a lot more quickly than disparity of wealth.  Or maybe we should ask the People's Republic of China what they feel about democracy.

Hyperinflation has also ushered in a wonderful field of nutso-socialists in South America, but I'm going to guess that as a liberal you probably don't disagree with them too much.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6283395 - 11/14/06 07:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

it does force us into that kind of a choice because of the simple problem of too many paper dollars chasing after too few goods..which is not a problem with hard currency...the only way to avoid this is to use whatever force is necessary to absolutely maximize productivity per dollar spent...and no matter how much technology can help..it always means forcing ppl to work multiple jobs and still have to borrow money to pay the rent.. or better yet..wage a bogus war in order to exploit the "enemy combatants" in a gulag system...

the fun doesnt stop there either..because another direct consequence of too many paper dollars chasing after too few goods is that the costs of social services..such as a trial-by-jury for those accused of a crime..also become inflationary...the war on terror.. the PATRIOT and MCA acts.. etc all make alot more sense when this is taken into consideration along with the above...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6283625 - 11/14/06 09:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
it does force us into that kind of a choice because of the simple problem of too many paper dollars chasing after too few goods..which is not a problem with hard currency...



If this isn't a problem of hard currency, why have we had lower inflation in the past 15 years than we ever have in our history?
(source: http://www.digitalnpq.org/archive/2006_winter/friedman.html )

If too many dollars chasing too few goods wasn't a problem with hard currency, then inflation when we were on the gold standard should have been WAY below the inflation we experience today, not the other way around.

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
the only way to avoid this is to use whatever force is necessary to absolutely maximize productivity per dollar spent...



No...

The easiest way to avoid this is to moderate increases to the money supply, something the Federal Reserve is very good at, hence the historically low inflation.

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
and no matter how much technology can help..it always means forcing ppl to work multiple jobs and still have to borrow money to pay the rent.. or better yet..wage a bogus war in order to exploit the "enemy combatants" in a gulag system...



I'm going to recommend a book to answer most of this bit.  Check out Financing the American Dream by Lendol Calder.
Amazon Link )

The short of it is that people borrow as much and as often today as they ever did.  People were "borrowing to pay the rent" well before the US left the gold standard.  So, no, fiat currency does not have anything to do with that at all.

As for the war and the "gulag system" I have no idea what you're talking about.  Can you provide some evidence of "slave labor" that's somehow effecting the American economy?

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
the fun doesnt stop there either..because another direct consequence of too many paper dollars chasing after too few goods is that the costs of social services..such as a trial-by-jury for those accused of a crime..also become inflationary...the war on terror.. the PATRIOT and MCA acts.. etc all make alot more sense when this is taken into consideration along with the above...



I don't understand any of this.

As I've already pointed out, inflation is at an all-time low, so we don't have "too many dollars chasing too few goods".

Even if we did, I can't see how hyperinflation, in and of itself, would lead to any of that.  Can you provide something to back it up?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6284480 - 11/15/06 12:59 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So you don't have any problems with the Federal Reserve in its current form? Such as the fact that private banks constitute the creation of money in America, private banks that are separate from the government and unaccountable to the people?

It's funny that the most intelligent and influential of the Founding Fathers of this country, the people who wrote our rights and the way our government should operate into the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, vehemently opposed a central bank because they knew it would take away economic and social rights from the people. Jefferson wasn't short-sighted when he said:

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

Wow, he was way off!


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Ravus]
    #6284774 - 11/15/06 03:03 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

To begin with, the Federal Reserve most certainly IS accountable to the people of the United States via congress. Someone's been lying to you if you think otherwise.

Examples of this include the Humphrey Hawkins act of 1978, which required that the goals of the Federal Reserve become subservient to those stated by the President.

This lead to the EXTREMELY inefficient system of setting money-supply targets (M1, M2) by the Fed, as was immediately required by the President.

Furthermore, we're VERY lucky that the US hasn't placed the central bank more under the "will of the people". That's the surest path to hyperinflation, and you can look at South America for some perfect examples. When a nation's central bank becomes politicized it is not very long before people begin running on tickets to "print more money" which always ends in disaster.

The current system has provided the US with the lowest inflation in history, and economic growth that consistantly outpaces the rest of the developed world.

As for Thomas Jefferson, he also believed in slavery, and was quoted saying that armed rebellion was a good thing every 20 years or so. Thus, he was clearly wrong about many things.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6284807 - 11/15/06 03:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

[Jefferson] was quoted saying that armed rebellion was a good thing every 20 years or so.

Can you provide a quote please?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: zorbman]
    #6284815 - 11/15/06 03:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Sure

Quote:

God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.




Jefferson's Letter to William S. Smith, 1787

He's pretty clear about the "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion," I've quoted the rest just to prove that it's armed conflict and not some other form of "rebellion" to which he's refering.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6284947 - 11/15/06 06:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Freedom to Fascism was a great movie, but I still prefer "Money Masters"

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money%20masters


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6285809 - 11/15/06 01:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The current system has provided the US with the lowest inflation in history, and economic growth that consistantly outpaces the rest of the developed world.




thats when inflation is measured in terms of the CPI...you would get a very different result if the decline in wages.. benefits.. and social expenditures (not the least being the loss of trial-by-jury) is taken into account..especially with the GDP growing so rapidly...a better measure of inflation is to add the increase in the GDP to the decline in median wages ..


[source ..epinet.org]...

if you do that..then inflation becomes 22% for 2005 according to the chart..which still doesnt account for cutbacks in social services...


Edited by Annapurna1 (11/15/06 02:02 PM)


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6286776 - 11/15/06 07:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Just out of curiosity, what is your idea for properly running the US currency system?


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6286996 - 11/15/06 08:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Annapurna, we've had this discussion before. It is completely nonsensical to compare wage growth to productivity gains, which is exactly what you're trying to do with the "add the GDP growth" business.

I'll ask you the same question I asked last time, and to the best of my knowledge never got a response:

I work for a company and can turn 5 screws a day. One day my boss gives me an automatic screwdriver that lets me turn 10 screws a day. My productivity has increased by 100%, but my total skill set, hours worked, and base productivity have remained the same (i.e. without the automatic screwdriver I would be back to 5 a day).

Now according to you, by my boss handing me an automatic screwdriver, I have suddenly become 50% poorer, unless my wage has grown 100% to match the gains I made from the automatic screwdriver.

How is this justifiable at all?

Why does my boss giving me an automatic screwdriver make me poorer? What can I no longer buy that I was able to buy beforehand? And why should my boss pay me 100% more, when it takes no additional skill to operated the automatic screwdriver? (it may even take less skill, since I no longer need upper-arm strength)

This is exactly why CPI or the PCE Deflator are used as measures of inflation, and not GDP gains.

Because, simply put, if I pick up an automatic screwdriver, I have clearly not become automatically poorer.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6287028 - 11/15/06 08:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If anything, increased productivity would increase buying power, correct? With everything else help constant, this increased output per employee would decrease prices for consumers.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: kotik]
    #6288245 - 11/16/06 02:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Freedom to Fascism was a great movie, but I still prefer "Money Masters"

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money%20masters




Quote:

why does the govt tell us that inflation is low..when the buying power of our paychecks is declining at an alarming rate??...
[00:01:09-16]





--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6288252 - 11/16/06 02:37 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Buying power of my paycheck isnt declining at an alarming rate. Prices for me are nearly the same as 7 years ago when I started paying my own bills. I still buy a loaf of french bread for .99, gallon of purified water still .25, quarter oz of cheap weed still $20.

My needs are easily paid for.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: kotik]
    #6288480 - 11/16/06 05:13 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Freedom to Fascism was a great movie, but I still prefer "Money Masters"

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money%20masters




That was an incredibly good documentary.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6290646 - 11/16/06 07:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

very good, very long. some of the BEST footage (archived video) i've ever seen on the topic. Plus the guy that hosts is in a million videos.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6294329 - 11/17/06 05:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Annapurna, the graph you posted yourself in this thread shows that real wages (i.e. inflation adjusted) haven't declined.

Thus, you've rebutted your own point.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: America: Freedom to Fascism [Re: Economist]
    #6294472 - 11/17/06 06:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

the chart shows a decline since 2004..and would show a larger decline if it went back further...


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