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OfflineMustNotBe
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Anti-Depressants and shrooms
    #6253545 - 11/06/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I know MAIO's boost mushrooms effects. My girlfriend is planning to trip with me on the weekend, but she takes anti-dp's and I am not sure of the dose to give her for a first time. I figured a 2 gram dose would be a good first dose for her, but how do I calculate in the MAIO's?


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"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
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OfflineThreePieceSuit
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: MustNotBe]
    #6253865 - 11/06/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Depending on the MAOI, the dose will vary from 1.5 x stronger to 2 times, from what I've heard. I haven't mush experience with this, as I don't use medication, but I'm failry confident these numbers are accurate.

I would advise having your girlfriend abstain from that medication if possible. Mixing pharms and mushrooms doesn't seem like a good combination to me, although I'm not experienced in this area.

There's probably much better advice than this, but I hope this helps anyway.


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OfflineEarthDroid
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: MustNotBe]
    #6253873 - 11/06/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I highly doubt they gave her MAIO's, probably SSRIs. SSRI's aren't suppose to diminish the experience, however they diminish the experience of LSD.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml


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OfflineThreePieceSuit
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: EarthDroid]
    #6253901 - 11/06/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, most anti-depressants are additionally MAOI's.

I don't believe there's any medicinal benefit of having the gastrointestinal acids inhibited by the medication, I think it's merely a common side effect.

I'm still not 100% on this though.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: ThreePieceSuit]
    #6254057 - 11/06/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Don't give your girlfriend a fucking MAOi if she's on anti-depressants man!
SSRI + MAOi = serotonin syndrome!

(am I reading your post correctly? are you giving her MAOis? Or is that what her pills are?)


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Know your self.
Know your substance.
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The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


Edited by ExplosiveMango (11/06/06 03:40 PM)


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Offlinededjam
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: ThreePieceSuit]
    #6254069 - 11/06/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

No, most SSRI's are not MAOI's...there would be alot of dead people.

SSRI's, which almost all new common anti-depressants fall under, are said to deminish the effect of psychedelics. This does seem to very from person to person though. I read on here about people who need insane amounts to trip. My wife is on an SSRI, and I was in the past...her now, and me while I was on it, had heightened experiences. Basicially while on the SSRI it would take less of the drug (shrooms/lsd) to get to the same level a higher dose would take us before the SSRI dose. It also helped with the anxiety and depression that would occasionally come up during a trip.


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OfflineThreePieceSuit
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: dedjam]
    #6254194 - 11/06/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gopenguins said:
No, most SSRI's are not MAOI's... had heightened experiences. Basicially while on the SSRI it would take less of the drug (shrooms/lsd) to get to the same level a higher dose would take us before the SSRI dose.




I would see that as evidence that anti depressants are MAOI's...

And why the dead people? MAOI's aren't dangerous...


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: ThreePieceSuit]
    #6254340 - 11/06/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

OK some anti depressants are MAOIs and some are SSRIs. There are probably more but thats what were talking about. Specific Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors diminish effects of any psychedelic drug. Monomine Oxides Inhibitors stop your body from destroying the chemicals you ingest leaving you completely vulnerable to its effects making the experience much more intense. MAOIs can be very dangerous when mixed with various drugs such as MDMA (hypertensive crisis) or like previously said If mixed with SSRIs will lead to serotonin syndrome which both can lead to coma and death. Id recommend starting off low and working her way up until she feels comfortable with her dose because you can always take more but never take less.


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: DeathCompany]
    #6254375 - 11/06/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Also, so you guys know, alot of prescription MAOIs are IRREVERSIBLE MAO-A and B inhibitors. In other words, they can completely take out your bodies ability to metabolize monoamines in the gut for periods of several weeks, unlike the reversible and selective MAOIs in harmala. So, simply discontinuing an irreversible MAOI for a day or two will NOT restore your body's ability to cope with these drugs.


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InvisibleSam1912
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: DeathCompany]
    #6254424 - 11/06/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

could be maoi or ssri. Most likely, though, SSRI. MAOI has diet restrictions and crap and most everyone I know with prescriptions have SSRIs.

Generally, it's hard to gauge a intensity of a trip of a normal first timers. With MAOI, I highly recommend against it. Hands down totally irresponsible dose regardless of any amount. There is no way to really accurately gauge interaction and intensification from MAOIs because each person has different metabolism and brain chemical balance including MAOs(these are enzymes that break down certain neurotransmitters and tryptamines).

In case of SSRI, I hope that consensus is that if one is not well enough to abstain from it for 5 half lives or more, then that person should not be tripping as this can lead to psychological problems from underlying issues. Sure it can help sort through, but that's a huge risk playing with someone's life for 6 hours. Each SSRI has different half lives. 5 half lives are considered to be cleaned out of system. Some are like hours, some are like weeks. Just google for "half-life <name brand>".




Erowid MAOI interaction with psychoactives

SEROTONIN-SELECTIVE ANTIDEPRESSANTS:

*Fluoxetine* (Prozac) -- even at doses of this antidepressant ranging from 2mg/day to 40 mg/day, there was an overall decrease in most effects from LSD (no matter how much acid people took), as well as a decrease in response to ketamine. There was no change in response to psilocybin. There does seem to be a decrease in the response to MDMA.

*Sertraline* (Zoloft) -- the effect with this antidepressant seems to be dose-dependent. At 50 mg/day, there was no effect on the response to LSD nor to psilocybin. However, at 100 mg/day, there was a decrease in response to both LSD and MDMA.

*Paroxetine* (Paxil) -- decrease in response to LSD.

*Trazodone* (Desyrel) -- decrease in response to LSD.

TRICYCLIC ANTIDEPRESSANTS:

*Imipramine* (Tofranil) -- increase in response to LSD.

*Desipramine* (Norpramine) -- increase in response to LSD.

*Clomipramine* (Anafranil) -- increase in response to LSD.

LITHIUM:

(*alone* or *in combination with a tricyclic antidepressant*) -- increase in response to LSD or psilocybin.

MONOAMINE OXIDASE INHIBITOR:

*Phenelzine* (Nardil) -- decrease in response to LSD
**TAKE NOTE OF THE RESPONSE TO MDMA: combining an MAO inhibitor plus MDMA has led to a hypertensive crisis and a near-fatal response in many people!!! This could be anticipated because MDMA is a substituted amphetamine, and stimulants should not be combined with an MAO inhibitor!!! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: Sam1912]
    #6254455 - 11/06/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

most sources reccomend laying off ssris for altleast 3 weeks and id do the same for maois. Also the only reversable maois are the natural ones (like dade said harmine and harmaline found in ayahausca) and not the synthetic ones found in antidepressents


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: DeathCompany]
    #6261645 - 11/08/06 12:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I forgot the name of her ADP pill. Ill find out and write it down. But all synthetic maoi's are irreversible? So you will never go back to normal?


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: ThreePieceSuit]
    #6261654 - 11/08/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ThreePieceSuit said:


I would see that as evidence that anti depressants are MAOI's...

And why the dead people? MAOI's aren't dangerous...




No. They are not in any way MAOI's. MAOI's in themselves arent dangerous, but depending on your diet and other medications they can be extremely lethal.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: Anti-Depressants and shrooms [Re: DeathCompany]
    #6261660 - 11/08/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
most sources reccomend laying off ssris for altleast 3 weeks and id do the same for maois. Also the only reversable maois are the natural ones (like dade said harmine and harmaline found in ayahausca) and not the synthetic ones found in antidepressents




Never stop the use of a perscription drug so that you can use a recreational drug. That just isnt smart at all.


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