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InvisibleIcelander
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Death fear = prime motivator
    #6257027 - 11/07/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I propose that the vast majority of all human action is the result of death fear and avoidance of the realization that one will die.

It is initially hardwired in with instinct and then compounded by our consciousness of our own deaths.

I also propose that the way we deal with this prime motivator will determine if in our lives we ever experience reality not colored by fear of death.

Few people are really conscious of their fear of death and act mostly unconsciously or asleep to relieve themselves of death anxiety believing there actions are motivated by other things. Only one who has become aware of death and how it motivates us and culture can begin to challenge this motivation with any hope of success.

What are your thoughts here?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257046 - 11/07/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you Icelander. :thumbup: :grin:


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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257084 - 11/07/06 11:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

fear of the unknown, death.

fear of certainty?

perhaps this would explain why we keep moving, doing, building, aiming to progress, in fear of standing still and facing the unconceivable..

hmmmmm... interesting thread ice, i'll keep an eye on this. :photographer:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257085 - 11/07/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I propose that the vast majority of all human action is the result of death fear and avoidance of the realization that one will die.

It is initially hardwired in with instinct and then compounded by our consciousness of our own deaths.

I also propose that the way we deal with this prime motivator will determine if in our lives we ever experience reality not colored by fear of death. 

Few people are really conscious of their fear of death and act mostly unconsciously or asleep to relieve themselves of death anxiety believing there actions are motivated by other things. Only one who has become aware of death and how it motivates us and culture can begin to challenge this motivation with any hope of success.

What are your thoughts here?




i definently agree with you too. took me a couple bad mushroom trips to really become "aware" as you state it. now my real learning has begun  :thumbup:


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: SoY]
    #6257089 - 11/07/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Looking at and accepting personal death accept very abstractly is very uncomfortable and seems impossible for many. The fear, conscious and unconscious is too great.

Don Juan suggested using death as an adviser and said we cannot take looking into the idea of our personal death far enough. He also stated that fear is the first enemy of a man of knowledge. I think these two things are intimately tied and he was fully aware of it.

In my experience it takes a lot of time to penetrate the barriers of our denial so we can really begin to acknowledge that we are going to die. I am currently working on this as you all may have noticed. :grin: The Dali Lama said that his primary purpose these days was to prepare for death. I think that is a profound statement. To prepare for death one must acknowledge that one is going to die at any moment and then realize that one is not dead yet. Then begin to live fully not believing we have time to realize our dreams in some future time or to think something will save us down the road. There is no down the road for sure. That is a challenge to really grasp and act on.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFatBath
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257105 - 11/07/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm led myself to think that 'ego' death is far more terrifing than physical death, and that seems to be what is fortifying my cowardice and allowing me to leisurly stroll around in the sleepwalking zombie gait. A close encounter with the reaper sounds like quite an invigorating experience, but seems foolish to seek out purposefully.

To me the prospect of ego death seems wonderful and desireable, but the requirements of achieving that are disheartening and I reteain this stubborness that is grounded in fear.

My lie(this is a typo...but maybe not) is motivated by a fear. Fear that something terrible will come about because of the negativity I harbor, so I confess my darkness. Fear of going to hell, so I stop jerking off. Seems to only dig deeper. Fear of death is fear of life, perhaps. I certaily ain't livin!

Not sure if I can tell the difference between acting out of love and out of fear. I may be begining to, but it's rather dim and cloudy out now. Would there ever be a sense of desperate urgency when acting out of love? I can tell that when I'm trying to motivate myself with fear I want to rebel against that feeling of desperation and ugency and just let it be... but then I get the self-abusing, "you don't even care do you, jackass!"

Love is a form of death I hear. I don't think life and death are opposite, just complimentary. On my way over to the library here I had Jello telling me, "You've got a lot of nerve to call yourself a pioneer when you're too goddamn conservative to take REAL chances."

Edited by FatBath (11/07/06 11:29 AM)

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InvisibleClean
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257106 - 11/07/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I totally agree, in fact I think I made a thread on this a while back...

I find this to be a profound realization that bears repeating

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: FatBath]
    #6257130 - 11/07/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm led myself to think that 'ego' death is far more terrifing than physical death,

Yes. It is the personality structure that thinks about and fears it's non-existance.

Very honest post by the way. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/07/06 11:34 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Clean]
    #6257153 - 11/07/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
I totally agree, in fact I think I made a thread on this a while back...

I find this to be a profound realization that bears repeating




I read it. Very good. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257753 - 11/07/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree. Awareness of ones death is a splendid motivator. Yet I would like to bring to awareness two things I find interesting.

One is an unhealthy obsession over death, which is what I believe CC's Don Juan warned about too. To be aware of the fact of ones death while making plans and decisions is a good thing. To constantly brood over it and then becoming depressed about it serves no useful purpose (unless ones profession is one of an existential writer and philosopher). I know. I do it all the time.  :runaway:

The other thing that I find more important is something Stanislav Grof found out and described in the last chapter of his book Beyond the Brain. Grof noticed that when his patients - through LSD psychotherapy - reached and moved through the final stage of  'ego death', they no longer felt motivated by the awareness of their imminent death. It meant nothing to them. They were finally at peace with themselves, others, the world and all existence. They've come to see death as a natural part of everlasting Life. I wish Grof was my therapist.  :chillpill:


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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #6257774 - 11/07/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Excellent post. To obsess about death IMO is just another form of avoidance. You are trying to frantically find a way to fix what cannot be fixed.

Moving beyond fear of death is a warriors accomplishment and worth the effort IMO.

Grof is your therapist. :wink: He can't do the work for you though and his being in the chair still will not exempt you from facing yourself. :heart: :mushroom2: You da man. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/07/06 02:51 PM)

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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257943 - 11/07/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Grof is your therapist.  :wink:

:mushroom2:  :grin:


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6257999 - 11/07/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Death is and should be a great motivator. The knowledge of our mortality is the single most important fact in our lives. This is as it should be.

Quote:

"Death is the only wise adviser that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.'"




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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6258025 - 11/07/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Death is and should be a great motivator. The knowledge of our mortality is the single most important fact in our lives. This is as it should be.

Quote:

"Death is the only wise adviser that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.'"







I agree and would only add that we be conscious that it is motivating us and how it is motivating us.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6258063 - 11/07/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Of course.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineBluFiyah
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6258147 - 11/07/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"There is a continuity of existence not interrupted by physical death" This rids my fear of death and at one time in my life (when I was like 15) made me obsessed with death. Although now for me death is a great motivator. I feel I was given life to live and enjoy this world while visiting the other (on mushrooms or meditation). I met someone from mexico who told me they gave him a very exact amount of snake venom- to the point where he was almost dead and there everything was clear and learned alot (knowing the ledge) and now he lives life to very fullest. Great post Icelander.


--------------------
My Brain will only fry when Knowledge is neglected- so I love the ledge- and knowing it

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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #6259202 - 11/07/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I lost my fear of death while in Jamaica on an strong hit of acid reading Be Here Now. At least I seem to have convinced myself of that. I've accepted the fact that I'm going to die at at some point, be it today or tommorrow, and the only thing that makes sense to me is to be in a fully consciouss state at every waking moment. I was able to apply this knowledge directly as well. You see I really hated flying in planes and in the past would get extreme anxiety before flying and during the flight even worse. After my experience in Jamaica especially on the flight home I stayed calm the entire flight and was able to keep my fear in total check. It can be done.

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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #6259215 - 11/07/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And I also want to add this is a great thread, there's an important message to be made on the subject and I think everyone's done a good job of presenting it. :laugh:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6259289 - 11/07/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

On October 10, 1960, I was 7 years old and I had my tonsils removed. My parents left me alone at the hospital I was born in - Newark, New Jersey's Beth Israel Hospital. I remember having gone there earlier to have a blood count, and I saw bottles upon bottles of dead human embryos and fetuses on display! The day I arrived for my tonsilectomy, I saw out-of-control Black kids literally jumping off the walls, off of hospital bedboards, throwing pillows, going nuts.

They gave me a shot and I was too nervous to even cry. It must have been a tranquilizer because when they wheeled me on the gurney to the operating room, and they left me outside in the hall for a bit, I remember a pretty nurse smiled at me and I rather liked that. I also remember that I was experiencing curiosity at that moment rather than anxiety. Clearly, I was high. My physician who delivered me and my brother and six of my cousins - Dr. Morris Berlin - and everyone in the OR had on greem nylon-looking gowns and green masks. Dr. Berlin picked me up from the gurney and laid me on the table. They placed what looked like a mesh juice strainer stuffed with cotton over my nose and mouth and someone told me to breath deeply. The anaesthesiologist began to pour ethyl ether into the cotton. My eyes were open and the vapors burned them. Then suddenly I could not breath! "I can't breath you shit!" I yelled, as the room of doctors and nurses chuckled at the terrified 7 year old who was losing consciousness, blackness filled with brightly colored moving geometric forms in my mind's eye. Then blackness. Next thing I knew there was throat pain. At one point a cold object was placed against my genitals and a female voice said "go ahead," so I peed. I even remember the image of the object that I imagined - like one of those machine-lathed sand-filled aluminum cigarette ashtray receptacles outside of elevators in professional buildings (back in the day). It was probably an enamelled bed pan.

That was my second near-death experience. My first was the birth trauma which I relived on acid just before my 20th birthday.

Skip through 34 years of Psychedelic Experiences to three nights ago with my Lady and another Shroomerite couple. At one point, all of us sitting on the floor of my darkened den listening to a Dick's Picks Dead show and I emerge from the Garcia guitar riff and the electric atomic visionary state to proclaim: "How about that...we all had group sex without so much as touching one another." The 'Eros' that I was referring to in my crude way was Plato's Divine Eros - the yearning for Union - a Higher Union than one afforded by second chakra peak experience. It was a 6th chakra merger. It WAS a Unitary Experience. It was FEARLESS and the corollary to FEARLESSNESS is ECSTASIS. The Opposite of Thanatos (Death) is Eros (Life) - the Opposite of FEAR [of Death - the Mother of Fear/Anxiety] is Ecstasy. Yet another way of putting it is that in the complete absence of fear, consciousness is ECSTATIC, and on somewhere between 300 and 400 (possibly 600 for one of our party!) micrograms, one is so filled with non-fearful awareness of energy, that ecstasy is the resultant state.

THAT is why I strive for physical death in the right state of mind. I want to go out of this life in a state of fearlessness, which might be peacefulness, but at this juncture I can't help but want to exit this life in a state similar to a hyper-pranic state of Psychedelic Ecstasis. I want to die in ECSTASY, which incidentally means standing outside of oneself.

Peace and Love,
Mark[ostheGnostic]


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Death fear = prime motivator [Re: Icelander]
    #6259308 - 11/07/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly, I don't think most people think about death that much. In fact, I think if people contemplated death more often, we might have a more enlightened society.


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