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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6257413 - 11/07/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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besides the internet
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Asante
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6257666 - 11/07/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
but what has it really done to benefit us?
Something as trivial as the Industrial Revolution. Seriously, you'd be chasing a goat for its milk now if we hadn't borrowed our society from fossile fuels. The departure from renewable energy in the early 1800s ushered in an era of unprecedented growth for a large segment of the world population.
Let me return the question: what would happen if you took non-renewable primary energy away? Billions would die, that's what!
How about your washing machine and vacuum cleaner? Thats five hours of manual labor in your household right there. Oops, there goes the fridge, the freezer and the electric oven! Looks like you got to shop daily because food doesn't keep anymore. And on foot, because your car is gone too. Nobody can call you and you can't put on radio or TV, so you'll hear Aunt E got ill only a week or two after she got better.
Remove all plastic items, because these are offsprings of the petrochemical industry. Oh and take away anything you own that is mass produced. Your shirt is linen, but the dye is petrochemical. Your father's medication would not exist too, so he'd throw an epileptic fit every other week because valerian root just isn't enough, and his false teeth are petrochemical too so he'll have to run his meals through the meat grinder and eat the puree with a spoon.
If you realize what Primary Energy does for us, you'll see that this really is the only thing separating 2006 society from 1506 society.
We need cheap high-yield solar power, and we need to master deuterium fusion. We need it both, the rest is just auxiliary energy, and solar power is far less important than lighting a Deuterium star here on earth.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: Asante]
#6257800 - 11/07/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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all these things have given free time, but now we are bored and kill the extra time. washing clothes doesn't take 5 hours when you only have one set.
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: Asante]
#6257832 - 11/07/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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we should just do the work that we have to rather then let Oil do it for us. work is good for us, like most people believe. everyone says work is good but we don't really do it anymore. exercise, a feeling of power and accomplishment, plus you can make everything exactly how you want it. all your hashpipes can have awesome little carvings if you want because you went out and found the block of wood or shaped the clay and built a fire to make it hard. i'm not saying to do away with technology. isn't the best use of technology that which improves our life the most? if we were using technology to make us happy, then we should be 1000 times happier than those people before the industrial revolution because our technology is 1000 times better. i can never speak for you, only myself, but i would feel like a King if i grew all my own food/shrooms/pot/ made hemp clothing, and built a comfortable little hobbit hole, or at least specialized in one area and trade for things that someone else had made by hand instead of buying a pair of boxer shorts that were made in a factory thousands of miles away with oil (and which are a little too big, and the smaller size is too small). thats all i need. we've made work easier but really now we spend most of our time creating work to do because work is good and all the necessary and fulfilling work is done by oil. not to say that everyone is unfulfilled, its just that we don't get fulfillment from work anymore, but from eachother, from talking, sex, etc. not good or bad, but i like feeling that my work is perfect
Edited by sleepy (11/07/06 03:20 PM)
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Asante
Mage


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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6258311 - 11/07/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
i can never speak for you, only myself, but i would feel like a King if i grew all my own food/shrooms/pot/ made hemp clothing, and built a comfortable little hobbit hole
What if you need an MRI scan or a pacemaker?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Diploid
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: Asante]
#6258372 - 11/07/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or a computer, or wanted to communicate with a friend living a year's horse ride away, or even wanted to visit that friend? How will you keep all that food you grew from spoiling without refrigeration? What would you do, other than work your ass off 16 hours a day to keep from starving, for entertainment without movies, or CDs, or radio?
Subsistence living is a quaint thing to take a two week vacation in the wilderness somewhere doing, but there's a reason technology was invented: because people 500 years ago lived miserable lives of nothing but darkness and subsistence backbreaking hard work, and death from diseases we cure today with a single pill.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Annom
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6258375 - 11/07/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sleepy said: all these things have given free time, but now we are bored and kill the extra time.
Free time is the best invention since sliced bread! It's when you can do everything you want and are not forced to find food or protect yourself. Some people kill it, but free time is the last thing I want to loose.
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ProoN
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6258724 - 11/07/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yar, but the general public can't use fusion to their advantage as of yet, and I doubt we'll be able to anytime in the ~mildly~ near future.
-------------------- A human being is part of a whole, called by us, the "Universe", a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: ProoN]
#6259061 - 11/07/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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you all are talking like addicts. every addiction can be beaten, and is a means to an end. we just could change the means, that's all i mean. heh we USED to be content without dvds... what happened? maybe when i make my farm and have a house, beer, weed, food, and tons of free time, i wont be happy, but maybe not. and i will have free time. http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC14/Fukuoka.htm
we can be smart. i know how to live comfortably on 20 hrs a week with many luxuries like spices and plenty of good food
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: Asante]
#6259255 - 11/07/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
I think we need more doomsday technology. You can never go wrong with a doomsday device.
Build a 10 gigaton hydrogen bomb (this is a building structure, it doesn't have to go anywhere) and cover it from all sides with bags of Cobalt(II)iodide.
The explosion will create a huge neutron flux, this will turn the CoI2 into highly radioactive Cobalt and Iodine which in a column of hot fallout will be taken tens of kilometers into the atmosphere, and will rain down across the earth. The Cobalt and Iodine will be readily assimilated by organisms, accumulating in and specifically destroying thyroids and neurons. Radioactivity will be intense for several hundred years.
Basically, the original Doomsday Device of the Dr Strangelove movie. It can be real, and like the movie alleges: "is in the realm of capabilities of even the smallest nuclear power".
Delightful!
But I'd much rather just blow the planet to peices. I don't want to take any chances about people escaping the doom.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Diploid
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6259297 - 11/07/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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i know how to live comfortably on 20 hrs a week with many luxuries like spices and plenty of good food
Do you have ANY idea how many acres of land you'd have to plow, sow, and harvest by hand to feed ONE person for a year without technology?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6259387 - 11/07/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm with Diploid on this. Fusion FTW!
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: Silversoul]
#6259410 - 11/07/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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not sure but i'm really digging this idea. i'm sure technology would help. maybe i'll set up solar powered TV and watch during the day!
Edited by sleepy (11/07/06 09:15 PM)
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6259470 - 11/07/06 09:19 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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just what is fusion anyway? we don't really need it. we can make everything we need now. the proof is in the pudding. 90% of the population does NOT make food, or make anything for that matter.
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Konnrade
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6260420 - 11/08/06 02:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sleepy said: just what is fusion anyway? we don't really need it. we can make everything we need now. the proof is in the pudding. 90% of the population does NOT make food, or make anything for that matter.
And that lifestyle cannot be indefinitely maintained.
Our energy systems are based primarily on fuels that are used faster than they are replenished. It's not hard to see the problem with that. Eventually, things run out... and if we don't have a plan B, then we're stuck with a catastrophic energy shortage until we develop an alternative.
With fusion there lies an opportunity to make efficient use of fuels present in abundance all over the earth and all over the galaxy in order to produce significant amounts of energy.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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trendal
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6260890 - 11/08/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your asking 90% of the people on earth to give up their life.
In 1800 there was just a billion humans on earth. There's 6.5 billion today.
That's the Industrial Revolution.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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sleepy
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: trendal]
#6261705 - 11/08/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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i'm not saying that at all. i'm just saying that most people don't work.
the argument is always that "to produce our own food is like going back to the dark ages and we would spend all our time just barely surviving"
when in fact about 2 percent (this is a statistic from memory, i can't find it on google) of the population in the US works on farms. then you have the people to ship it, but the total is probably under 10 percent that makes food for 100 percent.
just what is your life? "you are not your job" -fight club
i dont know if that is true. i also don't know what i am trying to say except that Oil does all our work for us and is killing us like a bad habit. why couldn't you have a good life on a farm? i'm honestly asking, what is the difference? what do you do for work? office buildings are full of people doing various things and interacting with eachother- same as on a farm. and living without oil would not be difficult physically, it just requires intelligence and the use of the mind to be smart about our work, instead of thinking about ourselves all the time, or whatever you all think about. working together cooperatively, we really don't know how it would be, because it's never been tried before. i think it would be about 20hrs/week
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DocPsilocybin
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6261785 - 11/08/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ugh, sleepy although I do approve of your simplistic outlook the fact of the matter is we've come to expect a certain standard of living.
Going back in time in regards to how we live does not equate to happier people or less polution/enviromental destruction. Fact of the matter is huge farms ARE good at doing what they do and a single person cannot compete with that efficiency. If we all were to start farming/hunting for our own needs we'd end up destroying more land in the long run.
And I doubt you have any experience working on a farm for that matter. you make it seem all very idealistic, like with only a few hours a day of work we could supply our own needs? Work on a small farm for awhile without a tractor or iron tools and tell me how many hours a day you work. It's from sun-up to sun-down.
If you want to foresake technology yourself go for it. Those are your views and I have no problem with them. But for myself, and maybe a few others, I agree with diploid--we need a good source of energy.
Oil is a great energy storage medium but it is creating global problems. The unfortunate part is we need it for more than just energy needs we also use it as a component for manufacturing plastics, etc. So as a society we're addicted to oil. Solving this problem isn't going to be as simple as finding a new energy source.
We all have an expected standard of living and solving our pollution problem doesn't have to change those standards. I like having push button heat and a computer.
Ahhh I'm just ranting. We'll solve this problem! We just need the public to push for it more and put pressure on the government and big business. Simple fact of the matter is change costs and it's not 'feasible' for most people pay to convert their car to 'eco friendly love fuel'.
-------------------- You can't hold a man down without staying down with him. -- Booker T. Washington
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Darkcloud
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6264064 - 11/09/06 01:45 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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1) The ability to filter out estrogen and pharmaceuticals from out of our drinking water. 2) Deep space travel. 3) Telescopes capable of visually finding planets in other solar systems. 4) Genetically modified plants that can adapt to harsh climates (I.E. food for Africa, although GM plants have a ton of political resistance from Europe). 5) The ability to "create" water inexpensively and easily (pending there is plenty of H and O). 6) Something to help fix the holes in the ozone layer. 7) "Helpful" viruses that are programmed by humans to attack cancerous cells (we are getting there).
There are many more, I just can't think of them at the moment.
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Charles
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Re: What technology do we lack? [Re: sleepy]
#6264936 - 11/09/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, we're now on the cusp of some very interesting technologies.
Nano-tubes will revolutionize everything from plastics to cancer treatments. But they're still in their infancy, even though there have been some exciting advancements in the field already.
Also, fusion is a long way off from being viable, if it can ever be. For near term large-scale energy needs what we need is a better general understanding of nuclear reactors, not the "OMG ATOMS!" reaction you get from most people. The modern pebble-bed reactor is literally incapable of critical failure, and with thorium reactors right on the horizon what little waste is produced can be turned right back into fuel.
But as far as the technologies that I think we're missing? I have to agree wholeheartedly with Ythan on the batteries. We definitely need improvements in portable energy storage. That along with more efficient electric motors would be a huge step towards cutting back on fossil fuel consumption.
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