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Dimmy
Josephacetious
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 903
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Honey water in substrate?
#5583789 - 05/02/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok, so heres what i've been thinking.
I read about LC techniques and, how one would be able to grow mycelium in a honey solution. The mycelium grows off the nutrients from the honey directly in the solution, this we all know.
heres my thought: Would there be any beneficial effects from using this same type of honey solution in substrate? Say when useing the PF, Instead of using straight water, one could substitute the honey solution and as a result, introduce even more nutrients into the substrate and, therefore help the grow?
what are your about the idea, i'm pretty new to growing so i'm not sure if it would help the mushies or raise the possibility of contam. Input is appreciated.
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StainBlue
Da Man
Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Dimmy]
#5584006 - 05/02/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the only thing that I see to cause an issue would be the fact all teks for pf cakes indicate to PC for an hour and all the LC teks ( most of them anyway)advise to not PC for more than thirty minutes. The reason being if the honey is PCed for too long it will carmelize, or maybe im thinking of KARO WATER, Hmm I dont know.
But in any case because of the different processes you might have to sacrifice proper sterilization in order to keep the honey/karo water viable for mycelial growth. On the the other hand if you didnt sacrifice sterilization then the honey/karo might carmelize and would then serve as no real benefit for mycelial growth. For those two very reasons I see the only way it would help would be to sacrifice sterilization which we all know doesnt help anything.
So IMO I say its not worth the time.
But then again Like I said i could be wrong about the whole length of time to sterilize honey water. If you can sterilize it for an hour without it carmelizing the honey it might be worth an experiment.
Thats just my .02 though.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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StainBlue
Da Man
Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: StainBlue]
#5584074 - 05/02/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually I just checked the time frame for honey water sterilization and all indicators say no longer than 30 minutes. So yeah, I dont see any real benefit of using honey water in a pf cake.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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Dimmy
Josephacetious
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 903
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: StainBlue]
#5584084 - 05/02/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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well with both the LC and the PF cakes you dont have to PC. You could Steam sterilize them both. this way you wouldn't caramelize anything and wouldn't compromise the sterility. therefore, my question still stands.
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StainBlue
Da Man
Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Dimmy]
#5584124 - 05/02/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess your right, you can do that. I dont know. I guess really the only thing you can do is try a controlled experiment, like some jars with and some without and monitor the difference in performance.
As far as your other concern about being more susceptible to contams, I dont think that would be a huge issue if you have properly sterilized.
I dont know give it shot and keep every one updated with the progress.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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Dimmy
Josephacetious
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 903
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: StainBlue]
#5584144 - 05/02/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah, i'd like to give it a shot but it is still gonna be at least a month before i'll have the chance.
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Psilocyan
Humble Voyager
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 224
Loc: Atlanta...USA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Dimmy]
#5584203 - 05/02/06 11:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dimmy said: yeah, i'd like to give it a shot but it is still gonna be at least a month before i'll have the chance.
I know. I'm getting antsy.
-------------------- I Psilocybe weilii... "I think of going to the grave without ever having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex." -McKenna
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HorusTh3Chrous
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 955
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Psilocyan]
#5584269 - 05/03/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good idea man, and yes your question did stand! Try it, i might here now...
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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steaming sugar for an hour will carmelize it. theres other stuff you can add in kelp or blood meal. or just mix poo into your brf cakes. poo cakes are great. plus you don't need aged poo just leech it. all the potency of spawning to poo and you don't have to have a pc to do grains to spawn to it.
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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StainBlue
Da Man
Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: skeletor]
#5584305 - 05/03/06 12:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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see I had a feeling it didnt matter whether you steamed or PCed. High heat with sugar for an extended period of time is not good, thats what ive always thought but what the hell, I dont mess with LC's too much so I have no real frame of reference anyhow. LOL
It just sounded like he wanted someone to tell him it would work and make dramatic improvements so I gave up trying to discuss the issue.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: StainBlue]
#5584906 - 05/03/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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comments:
-thick honeywater will prevent spores from germinating (betcha don't want that!) thin honeywater like in the ratios used for an LC would work, but at that level honey in your substrate is gonna be near pointless. you're adding such a tiny bit of extra nutrients its not worth the hassle of cleaning out a sticky bowl, sticky tools, possibly screwing up the consistency of your mix. honey is made of sugars, so its not even all that nutritionally balanced to really help anything anyway. you're adding a miniscule amount of extra carbs to your mix on the order of a tiny pinch of extra brf. nice thought, good to see you theorizing just starting off here, that's how you learn - but don't bother with this one.
-skeletor: steaming for an hour aint gonna carmelize honey. honey is a mixture of sugars, none of which will carmelize at 210F, ever. boil it all day long it aint gonna carmelize... fructose is the lowest temp carmellizing sugar, and does so at 230, so it happens in a PC. other sugars don't carmelize until up over 300. but, the amount of fructose in honey is in the 30% range, so even in a PC, only a third of the sugars in honey will begin to carmelize, which isn't very detrimental anyway. karo will carmelize to an even smaller extent because it contains less fructose (but even there its gonna be well over 90% glucose, which has a carmelization point of 320F.) this has nothing to do with the mystical science of mycology, go pick up a dessert cook book and you'll see that same exact info staring back at you. dunno why everybody thinks all sorts of carmelization is happening in their LCs... even when it does theres plenty of sugar content that doesnt... no biggie!
Edited by creamcorn (05/03/06 09:41 AM)
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Cerebro
Spawnmaster C
Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Cocytus
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Dimmy]
#6227054 - 10/30/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it is a great idea. And I came up with the idea myself independently; that's why I responded. I just haven't done it yet. It might even suppress any possible contams. I don't just think in terms of being sterile(PC etc.) but maintaining sterility. Sterility in jars is most important. I was reading that LC's usually remain sterile even under nastier conditions; likely due to the honey. I also noticed that LC's grow a ton faster than the jars. My friend gets contams and I don't. I think it is because I use honey & he doesn't. But it could be because I cap off my jar's better whether it be LC's or mason jars.
Edited by Cerebro (10/30/06 06:31 PM)
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Cerebro
Spawnmaster C
Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Cocytus
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Dimmy]
#6248249 - 11/04/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just did it. It helps with growth and reduces contams. Try it.
Edited by Cerebro (11/04/06 07:47 PM)
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elduque
Major LeagueInfidel
Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 246
Loc: Eastern AL.
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Cerebro]
#6248320 - 11/04/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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i always combine tek ideas here and there, like i soaked my popcorn overnight in water with yeast and karo. right now i got about 8 jars that i used different combinations of stuff on just to see which is going better than which. right now my pcorn kernals with yeast and karo water are in the lead. thats over my rye with honey and gypsum. my brf/hpoo/verm/yeast/karo cake (this ones in 2nd place) some other notables are the rye/gypsum/yeast and the brf/cracked corn/verm cake. the majority of my stuff is perfectly normal tek...but i like to try new stuff.
-------------------- We have a little war going on here. I just heard an ambulance go around the corner. what will it be tonight? the son who kicked his mother down the stairs? the father who beat his wife to death with the telephone? the baby who got forgotten by his mother because the drugs were really good today? you never know. you never know and you never get to know unless it's you, and if its you, well, you dont want to know. ~Henry Rollins "Art To Choke Hearts"
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djInfctdMushroom
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 128
Loc: seattle WA
Last seen: 11 months, 10 days
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: elduque]
#6248517 - 11/04/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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sounds like a good one
-------------------- po box'x and bowling alleys are a growers best freind No statements made in any post or message by any persons and/or parties should be constructed to concieve means or measures that I am now, or have ever been, involved in or considering participation or involvement in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction and thats a fact. dunking tek video knock substrate tek video rye grain knock tek video i asian.. self explanitory right
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Cerebro
Spawnmaster C
Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Cocytus
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: elduque]
#6248523 - 11/04/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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So did you use brewers yeast?
Edited by Cerebro (11/06/06 02:58 AM)
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Cerebro
Spawnmaster C
Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Cocytus
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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I just read that like 5 minutes ago that cytokinins occur in some fungi. Maybe kinetin could influence growth?
Edited by Cerebro (01/17/07 04:16 PM)
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elduque
Major LeagueInfidel
Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 246
Loc: Eastern AL.
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Honey water in substrate? [Re: Cerebro]
#6249526 - 11/05/06 08:33 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah i used brewers yeast
-------------------- We have a little war going on here. I just heard an ambulance go around the corner. what will it be tonight? the son who kicked his mother down the stairs? the father who beat his wife to death with the telephone? the baby who got forgotten by his mother because the drugs were really good today? you never know. you never know and you never get to know unless it's you, and if its you, well, you dont want to know. ~Henry Rollins "Art To Choke Hearts"
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