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OfflineGNIOM1498
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The Salts..
    #6231676 - 10/31/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

For example take Mescaline. Now if one was to do a liquid-liquid extraction or make a drink, am I correct in assuming you want your mixture if you were to consume, higher in the pH range. I understand you want the salts for storage, but for consumption you want the freebase. So, NH2HCL ----------> NH2. So even having your stomach acid less acidic adding a buffer, Tums, etc. would increase absorption?

Also for extraction of mescaline, when adding the Sodium Hydroxide you want the solution very cold to avoid cleaving of the methoxy groups right?


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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: The Salts.. [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #6232075 - 10/31/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

at neutral ph, they'll generally form salts, and will definitely form salts when they're ingested through the stomach. There's really no reason not to consume alkaloids as salts unless you need a lower vaporization temperature, in which case you're probably either smoking meth, crack, or DMT.

And as far as I can tell, no, reasonable changes in temperature do not effect yield when adding NaOH to cactus.


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: The Salts.. [Re: Mezcal]
    #6235632 - 11/01/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes I know, but for absorption taking an antacid and lowering the pH of your stomach acid will increase the rate of absorbance into your system and thus will have a stronger and faster affect. Im guessing this is true for all amine groups. Adderall I know does this and contains a amine group, if i can pull this out of my head, 1-phenyl ethan-2-amine or propan...What I think at work here is the amine group. I believe most drugs contain and amine group somewhere in the structure. I.E. Take tums before consumption.


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Offlinewietstocker
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: The Salts.. [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #6236266 - 11/01/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Mescaline is orally active in the salt form. It is the only way that it will be water soluble and enter the system. Although eating freebase mescaline would probably be converted to the salt due to the stomach's acidity, why bother at all? Salts are incredibly stable, and good for storage.

Also, if you are basifying (for whatever reason), MeO- groups are not good leaving groups at all. They are far too basic and would rather hang onto that phenyl ring. They are great nucleophiles however, which may be what you are confusing them with. (Let me guess, you're taking organic right now?)

Mescaline is very stable. I believe that it has even been isolated from ancient peyote found at archaelogical digs.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Salts.. [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #6236385 - 11/01/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NH2HCL ----------> NH2




For clarity you should note alkyl groups with R and aromatic rings with Ar and use a point between the amine and the proton acid like so:

R-NH2.HCl
Ar-NH2.HCl

People can then fill in the alkyl and aryl themselves.
A dialkylamine with differing branches (like MDMA) gets one of ' these guys to designate the one from the other, and if it is any hydrogen halide the letter X will substitute for a halogen:

RR'NH.HX

Metals get abbreviated M when they're approached generically so that
M-Cl is a metal chloride and
M-X is a metal halide.

Just a bit of chemical shorthand to help you along!


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