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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6238450 - 11/02/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Because you know what that does. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Amethyst]
    #6238561 - 11/02/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Amethyst said:
Just a few days ago we rescued four 2 week old kittens in a rubbish dump. Now even tho they will never understand what "faith" means, they had faith in their wee hearts, faith that nature will keep em alive, and so they hung on for dear life. The tinny cutes pulled through, were granted a chance to see another day and to explore the beauty of this world.

The faith within our hearts will lead us to truth.



Do you ever find it odd to attribute your own values and cognitive abilities to other creatures for which you (presumably) have very little evidence of similar cognitive development?


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop


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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: cloudtop]
    #6241428 - 11/02/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cloudtop said:
Do you ever find it odd to attribute your own values and cognitive abilities to other creatures for which you (presumably) have very little evidence of similar cognitive development?




Odd yes if you assumed my point had to do with faith being a cognitive construct of the mind, because I can not comprehend what was going through their minds, if much at all.

My emphasis was on the heart and the subconscious (unconscious maybe) connection that we form with our parents and mother nature at birth, we FULLY put our faith in everything around us, due to our desperate helplessness. If the Kitty's have little intelligence to understand faith, then what did they have that made em survive? You could call it instinct, or just straight out luck...I prefer to believe it was a trust that came from deep within.


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"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Amethyst]
    #6241462 - 11/02/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

what did they have that made em survive?




Why does their survival have to go beyond their physical capabilities? If they had been found a day or two later, they would have been dead. It is not instinct which keeps a helpless animal alive...instinct would help them hunt for food when they were a little older, or make them wary of larger predators. Without food and water, exposed to the elements, their death was just a matter of time.

There is no need to add faith (or the animal equivalent) to this equation.

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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Veritas]
    #6241679 - 11/02/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:

Why does their survival have to go beyond their physical capabilities?





Because they didn't have any physical capabilities to survive on their "own", so help was needed beyond that....I agree instinct had no role here, and simple cause and effect would of lead to death. Tho what I was trying to get at it, is even these little unaware beings required something within themselves to keep their conscious alive, other than their body's alone. Faith that their mum would come back to feed em, and even a deeper force within them, that gave meaning to why they should even bother with this harsh reality in the first place.


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Amethyst]
    #6241719 - 11/02/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds a little anthropomorphic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Icelander]
    #6241829 - 11/02/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

hehe well we were once helpless little beings too, something has got us this far! :smile:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Amethyst]
    #6242855 - 11/03/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

even these little unaware beings required something within themselves to keep their conscious alive, other than their body's alone. Faith that their mum would come back to feed em, and even a deeper force within them, that gave meaning to why they should even bother with this harsh reality in the first place.




You state this as if it is fact. Why do they need something other than their physical capacity to survive? Why do you assume that they survived despite having no physical ability to survive? This does not make sense. They lived because they could physically survive the conditions they were in.

While meaning certainly makes life more interesting, it is not necessarily intrinsic, and is more likely a complete invention of our human cognition. What makes you believe that 2-week-old kittens would live because they saw meaning in life, and die if they did not?

Quote:

we were once helpless little beings too, something has got us this far!




Yes, when I was born, my mother cleaned, cuddled & nursed me. She continued to care for my physical needs until I was able to take over caring for myself. If she had not done for me when I was helpless, and no one else had stepped in to take her place, I would not have survived. (No matter how much/little faith I might have had.)

I continue to survive now because I work to feed, clothe & shelter myself. If I stopped doing this, I would not survive for long. (And not due to my lack of faith.)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Veritas]
    #6244528 - 11/03/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thinking critically. :thumbup:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Icelander]
    #6244580 - 11/03/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yes...Ass + You + Me My drill sergeant in basic training told me this before I heard it anywhere.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleKerbouchardS
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6244638 - 11/03/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's a little different when you consider a babies mind( or animals, or rocks) might not even be CAPABLE of having faith.
Thus,. like a child or newborn animal, there is no faith in it. Only the faith the caregiver provides.
Once a baby matures enough to know what faith is( even if they can't place a name top the concept) they become their own faith keepers.
People can care for, and have faith for you all your life... but if you don't establish faith early on in life, it may be a more difficult road that need be.
I am living testament that faith can move mountains, and that the power of God is a real entity.


--------------------
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Kerbouchard]
    #6247082 - 11/04/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No one could know. But I think that each living being is born with that what we call 'faith'.
Maybe it is only a neurological function in our brains.
It is only a little 'stronger' than 'assumption' and quite similar to 'believe' or even 'trust', as I see this.

One faith may replace another.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (11/04/06 12:56 PM)

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OfflineFelinor
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8195139 - 03/26/08 02:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Do animals have faith? Do plants? Do even us humans truly have faith? Does this require having faith in what faith is?


--------------------
The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineMr_Spliff
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8195724 - 03/26/08 09:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is another one of my posts, it has to do with belief, or faith, believe they are about the same :wink:

Quote:

Mr_Spliff said:
Hell yeah. Loved reading those lyrics.

I think theres a reason they are called Magic Mushrooms, watch harry potter on shrooms. WOW. Shrooms are like a catalyst, rocketing us into our home. Like befor the law of man was the law of magic, but since belief concures all, the laws of man over rided the old laws. And madern materialism was born, and the elves and wizards and hobits all had to leave on a big boat to a "far" away land.

I once read that as scientists are researching in new cutting edge areas of science, thier intentions actually affect the outcome. Meaning thier deep seated feeling desires and beliefes are molding the "Laws" of physics. Like how memory is illusory and cannot be claimed. Laws are not Laws except by the law of belief, (faith, intention what have you)

I think there are others out there. Practicing, developing, and awakening thier own faverit forms of "concious spooky mamipulation at a distance" in like words of Einstein.

The Seat of conciousness lies in the quantum or planck scale of things, so far out when I feel it, the truth of it all, I just laugh in this insanity i am covered in. The truth is unspeakable, sizeless, spacless, timeless, and yet look around. We are attached to this world, this picture image which is a part of God except it has become insane with these new Laws and has started to feed off fear, but we are bringers if love, infinity, from the other side.



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Offlineallisthesame
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8196899 - 03/26/08 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Eh... think for yourself... question authority and respect it if you will... and draw your own conclusions on a conscious level... then sleep and repeat as necessary.


--------------------
Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: allisthesame]
    #8196945 - 03/26/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

When science proves spirituality which it is already doing (oneness/interconnectedness) then the people who dislike this oneness consciousness so much will probably turn on science.

Humans will be casually astrally traveling and the "proovers" will still disbelieve.

Cynicism is cynicism, it is a trap of doubt, those that doubt will always doubt. Theyre minds are trapped in an faith of cyniscism & doubt, not truth seeking, but faith in doubt, he who seeks truth & has faith in the truth revealing itself finds it, every single time.
He who seeks doubt, finds doubt, because there will always be room for doubt!

If miracles are performed before theyre eyes, they are simply magic tricks.

The thief who meets god, sees only his pockets.

To quote a quote.


--------------------

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OfflineMr_Spliff
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Chronic7]
    #8197011 - 03/26/08 03:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"Cynicism is cynicism, it is a trap of doubt, those that doubt will always doubt. Theyre minds are trapped in an faith of cyniscism & doubt, not truth seeking, but faith in doubt, he who seeks truth & has faith in the truth revealing itself finds it, every single time."

Beutifull use of the english language. IMO people are not trapped forever, only till they experience something else. Thats what psychedelics are for, imo. Or long grueling Koans, and swift slapps up the side of the head.

Once the person stops IDing with there ego they can see that there view of the world is a framework, that can be molded. A paradigm I guess. And that their no self gets filtered threw this framework and then you get what you get, be it doubt, love of truth, orwhat ever. This is why christians wear that braclet WWJD, to align their framework with what their framework tells them jesus is like, so as to make their framework more like jesus (thier framework of jesus) so as you can see its all really stupid unless you get in touch with your no-self.

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Mr_Spliff]
    #8197043 - 03/26/08 03:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes it was a bit of a sweeping statement to say they will always doubt, we're all on the same path...all doubts become clear eventually, although some do deny truth prooved, although what is proof anyway?

Can anything be prooved beyond a shadow of a doubt when quantum mechanics has already shattered our perception of reality?


--------------------

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Chronic7]
    #8197076 - 03/26/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

'Can anything be prooved beyond a shadow of a doubt when quantum mechanics has already shattered our perception of reality?'

Might you expand on this statement??


--------------------

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OfflineMr_Spliff
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Re: Life without Faith is impossible [Re: Chronic7]
    #8197098 - 03/26/08 03:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Exactamundo, Fuck it, its all a picture image anyway. And its goal is to make us believe its real, so go figure, itll go to anylength to keep someone to believe it. I sometimes think, It, can hop into people like in the matrix.

I went a year with no triping, on my first trip back to psychedelia, I wound up throwing my grow operation in the dumster. I thought God was filling my glass and if god filled my glass I would dissapear in a twinkling, and my family would be left looking for me, So I figured the shrooms were evil and that I should not give them to my friends, because this world was this world, worldly, the way it should be, not godly. I was haveing muscle convulsion and gritting my teeth and stomping around my house like a mad man, in this angered stat. 200 years ago I would have been said to be possessed, wether by the shrooms or IT (the worldly, or satan maybe) is up to each his own. I figured why would IT want me, a part of IT, going around freeing people.

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