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Offlinefeza4
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Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
First time grower....
    #6228324 - 10/30/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Alrighty people,
As the title so blatantly states... this will be my first time growing. This post is really really long basically outlining my entire plan of action for this idea. Decided to embark on this journey about a month ago and since then I've been reading absolutely EVERY peice of info and looked at EVERY picture I can get my fingers and computer to. Just wanted to introduces myself and say hi in that I'll now be venturing into the forums more often now.

Should be getting the spore syringe tom via UPS and plan on inoculating tomorrow asap. (Been anxious as hell to start this already, but no worries, all possible sterile precedures will be watched closely, no rushing past the most important steps). Plan on using the PF jar method being that it seems to be the best foundation for a beginner. I have a PC which i plan to use for about 1.5 hours for the jars. Getting only one B+ syringe tom (looking back i think I shoudl have gotten two, but It'll do for now). I have a really nice clean room/closet set-up. About 3ft deep, 3.5 feet across and about 8ft tall with 2 larger rubbermaids for the water heating with a smalled tub inside to hold the inoculated jars. A dozen 1/2 pints with a verm/BR mix/coffee water.

Tons of bleach and air cleaner for the room and me include chlorine bleach, ozium air cleaner, lysol air/surface cleaner, and tons of the alcohol base hand sanitizer, dusk masks, and hats. Along with all this i duct taped all the posible open parts of the room. Alogn with all this I put weather stripping along the whole inside of the door and put a piece of wood nailed to the floor on the inside right in the door jam with the weather stripping so basically when the door is closed the entire room is sealed. Every day I've been spraying the air in the room with the ozium and the lysol to start cutting down on the airborns. The carpet outside the room has had alcohol/water mix sprayed on it before opening the door, along with ozium in the air all around the room leading to the closet. (Call it OCD but I'm just being really really nerotic about the contams)

Question 1. The inoculation techniques seem to be all over the place here. Between the oven method, the alcohol swab over the needle at all times, and the flaming in between each jar... it can be a little internal debate about what should be done. I'm planning on using the alcohol swab over the needle the whole time. As much as everyone here says not to venture off into our own "ideas", i was thinking of soaking two sets of alcohol swabs and put both sets over the holes of the jars the second the tinfoil comes off of them. and just inocculating right through the swabs so when i take the needle out, the alcohol swab is still covering the hole. When i go to put the tinfoil back on i can quickly remove the swabs and throw on the tinfoil, minimizing the air near the open holes and hopefully minimizing the contamination. Input????

Question number 2. I originally bought whole brown rice grains and wanted to know if putting it in a blender and making a finer grain would work. Its not as fine as a flour, (which i can readily get if this wont work)I just wanted to know if it's worth it to go for that walk to the store (sorta lazy about walking down there and just curious on any input... wouldnt be surprised to get a litle flamed for the stupidity of the question).

When the jars are fully colonized i was going to do the "cold bath" in the fridge and finish with a wash before putting them into the fruiting chamber. I wanted to try both methods of just letting the PF cakes fruit themselfs as well as breaking up the cakes and doing the wet verm layer, substrate layer, and dry verm layer and let the whole thing fruit. If I should just wait and do the cakes I'll do that. Read up on the larger yields and instantly thought that was the best idea, which I very quickly realized wasnt the best choice being this is my first time.

Wow, such a long post but i wanted to outline my plan of action and get absolutely ANY feedback you all can offer. Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing.

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OfflineMycoGlowFlow
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228456 - 10/30/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

the alcohol swab over the innoc holes seems kind of unnecessary.


and yes i would recommend grinding the rice. the more surface area you have the faster and more thouroughly the mycilium will grow on it.


--------------------
(the key-strokes that have completed everything ever typed on this user name have been a random coincidence, except for the words in this notation)

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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: MycoGlowFlow]
    #6228496 - 10/30/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i like to hold a towel soaked in alcohol around the needle as i stick it into the inoc. hole.


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OfflineMightyCelt
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228529 - 10/30/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

As far as innoculating goes, I'll shed what light I can.  My friend just recently started his first grow, and he has had zero contam problems.  He works in a pharmaceuticals clean lab, and is trained on proper aseptic technique, sterile fields, etc.  If you can get access to a pack of a dozen or so needles (individually packed, sterile) then you could do like he did, and change needles twice a jar.  It takes a lil bit longer, and goes through a lot of needles, but by putting on a completely sterile needle every other time you enter a jar, you greatly reduce your chaces of contams.  Also, building even a rudimentary glove box will help DRASTICALLY.  A box of any sort with one open side works fine.  cover as much of the inside as you can with saran, and cover the open side witha curtain of saran, or a plastic sheet of visqueen-type material with holes cut for your arms.  Place your jars inside, and thouroughy wet all surfaces with 70% IPA (isopropyl alcohol aka rubing alcohol).  Allow surfaces to dry (it is the drying action that causes the cells of microorganisms to burst and die).  Wear latex gloves, or rubber cleaning gloves.  As far as actually innoculating them, heres what he did.  He marked on the top surface of the foil with a marker where the holes in the metal lids were.  Then instead of lifting the foil, he just stabbed the needle right through the foil, then taped over the hole with electrical tape as soon as the syringe came out.

As far as flour goes, he ground his own in a coffee grinder, and it worked fine.  Not sure how a blender would do, but theres one sure way to find out :smile: 

regarding the cakes vs. casing question, you could always do what my friend did.  He is fruiting his first 5 or 6 cakes as cakes, then plans on using the rest of his batch of a dozen to making casings out of.  That way he gets the experience of doing both methods, and can see for himself which works best for him. 

Damn, I don't talk much in person, but I get fucking WORDY when I get on this bulletin board, huh?

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InvisibleToTheExtreme, LOL
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #6228531 - 10/30/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I flame it, then wipe it with alc.


--------------------

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OfflineMycoGlowFlow
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: ToTheExtreme, LOL]
    #6228549 - 10/30/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i do the same


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(the key-strokes that have completed everything ever typed on this user name have been a random coincidence, except for the words in this notation)

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: MightyCelt]
    #6228588 - 10/30/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MightyCelt said:
As far as innoculating goes, I'll shed what light I can.  My friend just recently started his first grow, and he has had zero contam problems.  He works in a pharmaceuticals clean lab, and is trained on proper aseptic technique, sterile fields, etc.  If you can get access to a pack of a dozen or so needles (individually packed, sterile) then you could do like he did, and change needles twice a jar.




holy freekin hell man 2 needles per jar?  ive done 2 dozen straight before (LC fed from a 60cc syringe)... with an old pre-used needle! just wipe with alcohol between jars, keep covered inbetween inoculations.

anyway, advice to orginal poster: relax.  sterile procedure is important... but almost everybody goes extremely overboard their first few times.  use common sense but don't break your back cleaning every nook and cranny and choke yourself to death on various cleaning fumes. 

work quickly, work intelligently, use clean hands, clean work surface, draft-free room, don't breathe on your work, and voila, 95+% success rates.  i wipe my work area down with soapy water, and i wash my hands, and that's about it.  dont even own a can of lysol or oust or whatever.  its been months and dozens of jars since the last random fluke contaminate in one of them...  a needle is an awful small surface for contaminates to land on, especially if you work quickly and keep it covered when not in use.  easy.

and if you decide to case anything, you got a bit more reading to do.  (well i guess you got plenty of time for that yet huh?)... just a hint, you certainly got some of that mixed up - namely the "dry" verm part. :wink:

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228815 - 10/30/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

haha. Thanks for all the responses and all the info/recommendations.

As for the dozen needles, that seems a little over for my patience and budget, but definitely a good idea to keep on mind.

Creamcorn- figured a first timer would over-do it at first as im sure most of you experienced growers did. As for the working quickly, I think I'll be able to do that being that my roomate will be assisting me in accomplishing this. We both know that a spray down with cleaner and and a quick shower before hand will be done along with a dusk mask and hats. And I knew I had something mixed up the second I posted with the casing method. I have a really basic idea about it and you can count on me asking tons of random questions concerning it (after fully investigating it of course).

Thanks again guys, appreciate everything youve given and lookin forward to just learning as much as possible.
Rock on peoples.

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6228835 - 10/30/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

actually, the roommate thing would be a major blow to sterile procedure. :wink:

as mushroom cultivators, it is the cultivator themselves who are the biggest source of contamination.... i'd definitely suggest keeping it a one person job... its a too many hands in the pot spoils the soup sorta thing...

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228901 - 10/30/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I used to go overboard until my glovebox went up in flames and my arms went up in flames with it.Than I switched to bleach solution and I have had hardly no contamination issues since.Strangely enough when I was dousing the whole room in Lysol and oust I had contamination on nearly everything

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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6228928 - 10/30/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I sent you a PM

I would def go with a GB
The reason you see so many teks is that different procedures work for different people
Don't ask why, they just do
You got to find out what works for you and that can only happen thru experience

GL growing

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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: creamcorn]
    #6228985 - 10/30/06 10:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with most of what CC said, The cultivator themselves who are the biggest source of contamination.
Unless you are both 110% sure in what you are doing.
I have a friend that helps me harvest,clean & dry shrooms. But at this point sterility is less important.

And holey shit man so many needles so many chemicals.

I looked at the PF thing but went straight to using WBS spawn to coir(I have no poo :sad:)
My first ever grow was Z-strain casings. Using grain or WBS
with 1 syringe/needle, Rubbing alcohol, glen20(ethanol),bleach.
Even this amount of chems made me feel sick sometimes, If you breath in to much bleach, aerosol ethanol whatever your lungs will start to melt.

With a bit more reading you should be able to do cased PF cakes or better still using grain or Wild Bird Seed, It's cheap too.


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Edited by UnderNose (10/30/06 10:24 PM)

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: UnderNose]
    #6229353 - 10/30/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Wowers... so many responses to the newb... thanks.

Im building a glove box first thing in the a.m. and its taking every ounce of sense in me to not get up right now and do it... actually i think I'm about to do just that, we'll see.

And a bottle of bleach/water is definitley in the works. Tomorrow I should be getting the spore syringe in the mail and I plan to have the jars all PC'ed by then so HOPEFULLY I'll be able to open te tube and take the syringe into my clean room and inoculate on the spot. Ahhh getting pumped.

Just b/c I'm sorta lazy and most of you probably know it by heart, whats the amt of verm,BRF, and water going into each of my 1/2 pint jars? Sorry to inconvenience anyone but just not really in the mood to click the search button...laziness.

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229410 - 10/31/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Please for the love of all things holy don't do pf tek,despite what anyone says it is actually more difficult than using grain and you will be so disappointed in the yield,You wont realize that you are because if you haven't grown before you will be excited to just have grown anything but after you move on you will be so mad that you wasted your time and energy on something so futile and useless.Do this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4577994 trust me,you will be so happy you did.Remember my words when I say pf tek= :suicide:  :slitwrist:  :suicide:  :slitwrist: Best of luck to you,Happy Halloween

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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6229470 - 10/31/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:yesnod:
What he said.


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:dna::dna:

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6229485 - 10/31/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Umm... wow. That is a complete change in the original game plan... although I wouldn;t mind mixing thigs up. OHHHH and if you were to do it like this, I can make less jars to begin from the syringe and then inoculate multiple other jars of grain.

And this is suppossed to be EASIER?? than doing the pf tek method? I only ask cause this is the "recommended" method for starters. But if I get enough of a push in this direction I might as well do it like this. But is the full 24 hours completely necassary? Was sorta looking forward to innoculating tomorrow before my midterm... but I can wait for after (830ish) or even wednesday at like 10am. Ive been all antsy in the pantsy to get this show on the road. Sorry... still a newb here... just anxious, but willing to do it right the first time instead of "leanring from my mistakes".

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InvisibleDihnekis
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229598 - 10/31/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do grains. So easy.

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6229898 - 10/31/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

feza4 said:
Umm... wow. That is a complete change in the original game plan... although I wouldn;t mind mixing thigs up. OHHHH and if you were to do it like this, I can make less jars to begin from the syringe and then inoculate multiple other jars of grain.

And this is suppossed to be EASIER?? than doing the pf tek method? I only ask cause this is the "recommended" method for starters. But if I get enough of a push in this direction I might as well do it like this. But is the full 24 hours completely necassary? Was sorta looking forward to innoculating tomorrow before my midterm... but I can wait for after (830ish) or even wednesday at like 10am. Ive been all antsy in the pantsy to get this show on the road. Sorry... still a newb here... just anxious, but willing to do it right the first time instead of "leanring from my mistakes".



Yes it is actually easier,and yes you should soak for at least 24 hrs do germinate the nasties so they die in the PC,you are going to be antsy with anticipation but just Be patient and you will be more than glad you did :thumbup:

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Blutjager]
    #6230978 - 10/31/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Alrighty... update time. Got back from my local health food store and am very sad to say that they dont carry rye anything. Nothing to be seen. Just wondering if this method can be done simply with a diffterent medium. I read corn somewhere ( please dont flame me for this, I just remember reading it somewhere). Anything that can replace rye....?

In some better news, I just finished building my glove box. For those who recommended them along the way... wow, so easy to throw together if your not a complete dumb-ass. And if your sitting there contemplating whether to build one or not... definitely do it. For the 30 minutes I put in, it seems like it was completely worth it. A cardboard box, some layers of saran wrap, and some duct tape later... we have a glove box.

Thanks for all the help concerning my newb questions and concerns. Any advice or help is always appreciated.

-Rock on guys.

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6231471 - 10/31/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Somebody please. I'm sorry to push this but if theres another grain I can use besides rye I'll have to soak it so I'd have to do that tonight into tomorrow and I wanted to innoc. today... so I'm already delaying it. Went back and found the corn thing to be Popcorn. Anything else. The irdseed i read somewhere??

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6231550 - 10/31/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My 2 cents...

I just started, and I chose to do the PF tek simply to learn the lifecycle of the shroom... And to actually see the stuff live and in person. It's easy as pie and you will almost certainly get shrooms... plus, you will learn patience.

Your sterile practices look good, too much maybe... But you seem very impatient. That will cancel out ALL sterile practices, as PATIENCE is very, VERY important. Excitement is fine, but it must be controlled.

It's REALLY exciting to see the myc growing for the first time, but you have to leave it alone!

Good Luck, and welcome!

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6231656 - 10/31/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My sterile techniques i know are over the edge but I dont feel like not doing something and THAT being the reason for any contam. My impatoence can def be contained... I just want to innoc. already. I have everything needed for the PK tek, but someone told me that for the effort id be putting in its not worth it. Maybe I'll do half the syringe on that way and then just save the syringe for another good casing method. I mean, It is possible to case with the PF tek method... itll just take much longer than I would want to wait....

just decided... Innoculating 6 PF jars tonight and then later on this week I'll wbs it. Probably a waste and not a good idea... but the show needs to get on the road... and the PF method will be a good lesson to me about the full life cycle of the mushroom.

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OfflineMranderson
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6231729 - 10/31/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)


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OfflineQuake3
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Mranderson]
    #6231837 - 10/31/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If you have a pressure cooker, do use grain. If you already have all the materials for PF tek, you might as well do a few jars. It wouldn't hurt. After the jars colonize, just dunk them, put them in a ziplock bag and crumble them up, give them a day or two (or none) and then just spawn them to a bulk substrate. When they colonize, case them.

Instead of rye you can use wild bird seed, which doesn't fruit as good as rye, so it should be used as a spawn.

As for the glovebox, be careful. Don't cause an explosion by spraying Lysol and using alcohol everywhere right before you flame sterilize the needle.

If you want horse shit just check out Craigslist.

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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: Quake3]
    #6231896 - 10/31/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yea... thats basically everything I figured so thank you for confirming. When the cakes are crumbled is the spaning to bulk substrate an absolute neccessity or can i just case from there (probably will work with substantially smaller yields so would be pointless but just checking).

Thank you for the advice about the explosions that might occur... as that is something stupid I could do hahaha. I will be very careful about that though. Could cause some problems. I was thinking about horseshit but this is a first time grow so I'll keep it as simple as possible... although that in itself is an oxymoron.

Thanks alot for the info.

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OfflineCosmicFunGuy
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6232238 - 10/31/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

you can just case a crumbled cake without spawning to anything. I think a cheap option and valuable too... would be make an LC with you're first bit of solution they are easy to make fast and it'll make your syringe worth 100x as much as it originally was. You can still inoculate your jars too. Once the LC has had some time to grow and your jars will have had time to colonize, you can crumble and case your cakes... casing seems fairly complicated to some. like  with the 50/50+ casing people have troubles with ph or whatever. Why not try to order casing premade form a sponser, would make your first time way easy and premade casing is fairly cheap (16 dollars @  Mycopath , our other sponsers are great too... and they can all be reached here on the shroomery :thumbup:). After you case you have to leave them be for a few days, so the mycellium can recover and poke through the casing layer. during this few day period, try this... get a clean syringe and needle... some rye (i have some if you can't find it, that i'll send free of charge if you pay shipping)... and quart jars. first day the casing is incubating soak the grain, second day simmer and pc, third day inoculate jars. After the jars are inoculated it might be a good time to peak in on ye olde casings.... and continue from there by watching them and fruiting when appropriate. By the time the casings are done fruiting, your first grain grow (second grow) will have been cased and on it way into fruiting ready to go in just a few days...  go score some tyvek envelopes from the fedex or the the post office, or buy it if you'd like (its cheap as hell on ebay) for a filter on your rye jars.... and always remember don't touch unless you have too....

have a happy and safe halloween everybody...


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Offlinefeza4
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Re: First time grower.... [Re: CosmicFunGuy]
    #6233173 - 10/31/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Oh wow. Buying a sacing premade might be a good idea. Although being the first time I personally think I'd take more from the experience if I did it myself... even if the whole thing contamed it would be a good learning experience.

Right now I'm in the middle of PCing 3 PF jars with the grf and verm mix. After reading through the forums for many more hours than I should be (being dead center in the middle of midterms and all) I decided it's something that should be done, but I dont want to base my whole grow around it. Figured 3 jars would give me a good idea ofwhats happening with that. And with my cleanliness OCD I dont think contam will be a problem *knocks on wood*.

Along with these three jars I'm making a honey/water mix to innoc and hopefully grow some mycellum to use as mentioned by many of you. Found a good tek for it and just following it word for word. Going to go from this to a grain(not sure which one quiet yet) and spawn as large as I can. Figure I'll try every aspect of this shroomering from the get go and learn as much as possible.

Simmering with the cover on right now. Only about 30 minutes left on the PCing and both are going to sit there covered until after my 8am midterm. So figure innoc. at 10am. Got the room finally all cleaned and "sterile". Set it all up for the morning with the glove box and all set up waiting for me right where I need it. I plan to move the PC and the covered pot into the clean room all cooled down and spray the shit outa everything. While everything settles and cleans I'll take a nice hot shower, new cloths... gloves... hat... dusk mask... spray the shit of the outside room with the air cleener and sanitize the carpet outside with alcohol/water mix. Enter quickly and close the door. Open the pots... move everything into the glove box (where the syringe, lighter, and alcohol bottle with swabs will be happily waiting). and... well yea, from what i said you should be able to figure it all out. And then put the jars into my water heated tub. Theres only three yea.... but these three could be the first of dozens if not hundreds should it work out. The start to my Mushroom Era begins tomorrow and its looking brighter and brighter as it comes closer and closer...





or it could go horribly dissasterous and i either blow myself up the second i light the lighter or everything becomes contamed within the first week. In which case try number 2 comes around...

Rock on peoples and thank you for the advice up to now.

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Offlinefeza4
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Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 45
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: First time grower.... [Re: feza4]
    #6233588 - 10/31/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

just to ask cause ive been wondering. people say that after the PF cakes are spent you can bury them outside. I saw this tek that explained something along th elines of:
-dig a hole
-layer hpoo
-crumble in lotta spent cakes
-layer hpoo
-layer soaked hay
-layer mixed hpoo, hay, and crumbled cakes and cover with loose hay
I know its very very very broad and vague but something along those lines.
-And in due time mushrooms will grow in... dont know if this is true, but the reason of my asking is this. My location is curently undergoing the natural process that some people enjoy calling mid-fall, and soon it will be renamed as winter. If I should do this process within, lets say a month, when the first snow will have been down and it snows on top of this, when the spring and summer come around will I be able to look outside one random nice afternoon and see some mushrooms sitting in the corner of my yard. I'd have a peice of plywoood on top of it so its not like snow would be directly on top of it... but will the underground/underpoo substrate survive the winter blasts? My location gets mad cold.

Rock on pimps

p.s. sorry to keep bumping my own thread, figure better than making a whole new one for one question....

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