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OfflineBrewmaster
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T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory
    #6218095 - 10/27/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Recently, I've been having a heated discussion with a colleague of mine over Terrence McKenna's "Stoned Ape Theory" which suggests that the rapid developement of the human brain, the creation of language, and the reasoning behind our social structure as a species can all be attributed to the fact that some early primates ate psilocybin containing mushrooms and the primates who did not evolve, didn't.

I'm interested to know what you all think, I figured this was the best place to get completely biased answers.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218106 - 10/27/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think it's a crackpot theory that is very thought-provoking. I don't like any form of extremism, so attributing the birth of all culture/human advancement to mushrooms on a pile of cow dung seems a little too extreme for me. I take everything McKenna says with a humongous ROCK of salt, and value it more for its metaphorical significance than being anything to be taken literally.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineSouthPArk
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6218122 - 10/27/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)



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Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218125 - 10/27/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I do not know the exact archaeological evidence for or against such a theory, although it does explain the rapid development of cognitive skills and culture. My opinion is neutral.

Graham Hancock has a new book out called Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind which discusses this topic.

Quote:

Less than 50,000 years ago mankind had no art, no religion, no sophisticated symbolism, no innovative thinking. Then, in a dramatic and electrifying change, described by scientists as "the greatest riddle in human history," all the skills and qualities that we value most highly in ourselves appeared already fully formed, as though bestowed on us by hidden powers. In Supernatural Graham Hancock sets out to investigate this mysterious "before-and-after moment" and to discover the truth about the influences that gave birth to the modern human mind.


Hancock's quest takes him on a detective journey from the stunningly beautiful painted caves of prehistoric France, Spain, and Italy to rock shelters in the mountains of South Africa, where he finds extraordinary Stone Age art. He uncovers clues that lead him to the depths of the Amazon rainforest to drink the powerful hallucinogen Ayahuasca with shamans, whose paintings contain images of "super-natural beings" identical to the animal-human hybrids depicted in prehistoric caves. Hallucinogens such as mescaline also produce visionary encounters with exactly the same beings.


Scientists at the cutting edge of consciousness research have begun to consider the possibility that such hallucinations may be real perceptions of other "dimensions." Could the "supernaturals" first depicted in the painted caves be the ancient teachers of mankind? Could it be that human evolution is not just the "meaningless" process that Darwin identified, but something more purposive and intelligent that we have barely begun to understand?





He was on coast-to-coast recently. I can upload the interview if you're interested.

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InvisibleLosAngelesGraff
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: SouthPArk]
    #6218126 - 10/27/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i agree


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:prawn::baggy::zilla:
Please help support cover-upz blog
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OfflineSilentG
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218146 - 10/27/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think McKenna's theory has possibility. He cites a lot of good evidence in "Food of the Gods" such as prehistoric fossils being found with antiobiotic mushrooms in pouches as well as the survival benefits of eating low doses of active shrooms on a the African plains.

It would take some demonstration of similar mushrooms improving the cognitive abilities of other primates to really bolster his theory though.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: LosAngelesGraff]
    #6218160 - 10/27/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Robot: That's exactly what I've been arguing. This fellow I'm conversing with keeps shooting back with things like "well the essay was co-authored by his brother, a respected neurobiologist" It's interesting to think about but, complete bollocks in my opinion.

The theory states that we evolved quicker from the aid of mushrooms in several regards; that psilocybin increases visual accuity, thereby making us better hunters, therefor eating better. Also that mushrooms increase sexual arrousal, thus populating the species quicker.

I doubt that cromagnon man, with a lifespan of maybe 25 years due to constant threats on his life from the element, fellow man and wild animals, would have found the hallucinogenic and sometimes psychotic effects of mushrooms, the least bit desirable. And to suggest that they were eating them as sustinence? I mean shrooms are 90% water with little to no nutritional value.

Also, shrooms rarely make ME horny. I dunno bout yous guys.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218167 - 10/27/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I can't take sex seriously for one second on mushrooms. The thought of it cracks me up.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218204 - 10/27/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The idea that early African hominids used mushrooms as tools is well documented. Antibiotic mushrooms have been found in the fossilized packs of prehistoric travelers. McKenna suggests that very low doses of mushrooms would have provided an evolutionary advantage, and that once a part of society higher doses would have been used for religious purposes.

Low doses of mushrooms act mostly as a stimulant which would be great for patient hunters in the Serengeti. The increased visual acuity would be a significant advantage in hunting. These low does stimulant type trips would also encourage mating. I doubt that needed encouragement though.

edit: OneMoreRobot - I actually am a big fan of sex on shrooms. At higher doses it's not something I usually do, but mid level tripping sex is simply amazing imo.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

Edited by SilentG (10/27/06 02:58 PM)

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OfflineInTheFlesh714
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6218206 - 10/27/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
I can't take sex seriously for one second on mushrooms. The thought of it cracks me up.




:thumbup: truee

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: InTheFlesh714]
    #6218212 - 10/27/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sex on LSD....that's a whole other can of worms :grin:


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6218251 - 10/27/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Another problem I have with the theory is that it suggests that mushrooms were available in all the different regions that we are finding humans to have developed in.

Also, as most of us know, there are plenty of wild shrooms that are poisonous, hundreds of which could easily be confused with psilocybe. I doubt that ancient man, possibly having seen another get sick or die from eating a mushroom, would be real quick to try eating the ones next to them. I find it hard to believe they could tell the difference, and if they could, they were probably out trying to find something to kill and eat anyways, rather than checking under woolly mamoth shit.


mmmmmmmm....mamoth shit...


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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OfflineNewbie
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6218273 - 10/27/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Sex on LSD....that's a whole other can of worms :grin:




You're telling me :lol:  I ate my girl out for 3.5 hours, so long that the next morning my face broke out in zits.  I was down there long enough to change the pH balance of my face.

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Newbie]
    #6218299 - 10/27/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Tell your girl, I'm very, very sorry. I didn't know I had it at the time. I was meaning to call her but....


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Newbie]
    #6218314 - 10/27/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the big problem with mckenna is..there isnt a great deal of fact or evidence to backup his theories. alot of it is just stuff he came up with tripping..which of course doesnt invalidate it, just read him from a very skeptical perspective. ive had some amazing theroies and revelations tripping...some similar to what he says. only problem i have a hard time remebering the exact revelations and expressing them with words. one time i ate 3 hits of blotter, had a shitload of nitrous , listening to the dead on my ipod and watching this discovery channel docu about coral reefs in High Def (1080i). there was a point that night where i understood everything, it all was soo fucking crystal clear. i understood god, religion the universe...i dont remember much though

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #6218361 - 10/27/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, and McKenna was often the first to admit that a lot of his theories were just speculation with no backing evidence. It just seems to me that in this case he was trying to further his revolutionary cause by attempting to validate the shroom experience with wild ideas of psilocybin contributing to the developement of the human brain.

What if McDonalds hired an actor to play a scientist in a t.v. commercial and say that grease may or may not cure cancer.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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OfflineAnimals
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6218384 - 10/27/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lsd = shit.

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Invisibledespisedicon
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Registered: 06/16/06
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Animals]
    #6218394 - 10/27/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

explain why you feel this way please?

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OfflineAnimals
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Animals]
    #6218402 - 10/27/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thought you may not agree with what he says you must admit the man has a gift for gab. I can listen to that man talk for hours and hours.

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OfflineAnimals
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Re: T. McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Animals]
    #6218404 - 10/27/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I will later. going out.

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