|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
|
Re: Appearances [Re: demiu5]
#6211367 - 10/25/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Apparently any sort of expression of oneself that another individual does not view as being useful or productive, or of having practical value, then the expression is counter-productive to the one expressing it?
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
|
|
one's body is all one needs to express themselves, why use more than you have to?
Quote:
Apparently any sort of expression of oneself that another individual does not view as being useful or productive, or of having practical value, then the expression is counter-productive to the one expressing it?
If the message is not received, then it is not productive, which would then be counter-productive.
If a speaker speaks to a room full of people, and no one is able to decode the message, then was their speech productive? No. And if it wasn't productive, then would it not be counter-productive?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
|
Re: Appearances [Re: demiu5]
#6211440 - 10/25/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
demius said: one's body is all one needs to express themselves, why use more than you have to?
I'm not sure. I do not know why people use paintbrushes and paints to express themselves. I do not know why people manipulate objects to create tones that they themselves are not capable of producing with their body itself to express themselves. I'm not sure why people use tools of rock and wood to express themselves by constructing things. I simply do not know why individuals choose to express themselves by using other aspects of reality that, with just their bodies, they would not be capable of that expression.
Quote:
If the message is not received, then it is not productive, which would then be counter-productive.
And what if one simply expresses oneself for the sake of expressing themselves? You pretend to be the universal judge of that which is productive and counter-productive, and I think this portrayal of oneself does not represent the nature of reality, or the reality of nature.
Quote:
If a speaker speaks to a room full of people, and no one is able to decode the message, then was their speech productive? No. And if it wasn't productive, then would it not be counter-productive?
That's your conclusion. You may be postulating with a logical construct, but that does not mean that your premise for your conclusion is accurate, or representative of reality. I simply think that you make the choice to be biased agansit a particular form of expression.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Jackenobi
Hermes


Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6211452 - 10/25/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I mean to say that i am always aware of them, and as some posters imply they can be a detriment to (insert deeper concept here)
But there is no way around the world at large, so i am saying swim rather than sink.
We all have an image that can be presented by the aesthetic to a certain degree. I have tried to assimilate my basic truth when my aesthetic is concerned. Clothes can be weird things. A sign of schitzophrenia for example is 'dressing innappropriately'. I once went wandering through a wooded park with my loose brown linen trousers tucked into my socks, a green hemp long sleeved t-shirt about my torso. I was at something of a brink, or a gate... i wanted to represent a tree-like troubadour on my solipsistic wanderings, set to the moss and braken and bark and a wealth of minidisced music.
It was linked to my psyche.
Clothes are. They can be the benchmark of psychic, storied suggestion as you seek to begin the day, striking from a buzzing white fog, the weight of rising.
Or you can judge a persons character on them. Like the old pet peeve: people who replace personality with musical knowledge, or represent to others (cute ones, simple ones who couldn't 'see' the fraud in front of them...) Often the world seems awash with fraud, dressed to impress... a certain idea, principle or precept.... cant they see?"?!?!??!!? but there you are, its a tangled web of unneccesary thought quite frankly. Let them be, and i shall be too.
So. Because of my experience, my unneccesary (perhaps not at the time, but it used to piss me off and i am happier without the negativity, the aloof perceptions) self-programming... thats how i see it. But not any more. I am aware that i am presenting an image to the Others. But they are myself of course. I want to look how i look.
i dont know if ive followed the correct thread of thought here, im awash a little in old feelings and perceptions.
I see it now: We are Art. Hair etc, caps, rings and ear rings. All clothes. Forms of art. Any false art will offend the open minded recipient, viewer, observer or perceiver. False art of the person might seem to be recognised. I may feel i see a persons character in it and i do not find it attractive. I may see someone and be enamoured, male or female, enamoured by the truth in the art of the person.
These days i am far more likely to be enamoured. Open eyed and minded, an enamourment might lead to a seed of thought in my own construction of artifice. I learned to recognise i was not false in dressing the way the self i inhabit at this moment, any given moment, desires.
I am a construct, we are constructs. But in myself i always seek to inhabit a realm of altruism, whatever the mode of expression. In this i find fulfillment, in this i escape the bonds of jealousy or contempt. Or at least, so i try!
So fuck it, we are art and i am happy to be who i am being as long as i am true whatever i may perceive as deeper principles... altruism, compassion, faith, kinship... a thousand watt contact of the eyes...
Clothes can lead deeper into the psyche, it is a social sea. and i want to bring up am i leaf in it or a drop of water? Which is better or are they one? One is the whole, one exists up and down and still and motioned upon the waves in its prettiness of distinction. One is the sea. im rambling now and watching Misery. But anyway, have i answered any questions?
All is one if you populate image, pretence and so on with your truth of light, or altruism or whatever you hold to be.
Things may be unavoidable but who wants to avoid life's things?
-------------------- read books
|
Jackenobi
Hermes


Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Appearances [Re: demiu5]
#6211507 - 10/25/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Addendum: Goddamn those conformity crises!!!
I feel like this is an old manna of my mind, pretty cool to be grown with it and feel the peace(ableness) beyond, the open doors and new threads.
-------------------- read books
|
Jackenobi
Hermes


Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Appearances [Re: demiu5]
#6211520 - 10/25/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Addendum 2:
Pun = Serendipitous
-------------------- read books
|
demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
|
|
I totally agree with you. I mean, I know people are going to express themselves in just about any way possible they feel is appropriate at the time. But there is always a purpose for expressing onesself. Whether it be to release frustration or to get a message across.
Quote:
You pretend to be the universal judge of that which is productive and counter-productive, and I think this portrayal of oneself does not represent the nature of reality, or the reality of nature.
I don't pretend. I am the universal judge of that which is productive or counter-productive...to me. If I see something which, to me, is or is not productive, then, for me, I will label it that way. Correct, it does not necessarily make it true for everyone.
Quote:
That's your conclusion. You may be postulating with a logical construct, but that does not mean that your premise for your conclusion is accurate, or representative of reality. I simply think that you make the choice to be biased agansit a particular form of expression.
If a tree falls in the woods and there are no animals to hear it fall, does it make a sound?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6211656 - 10/25/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Self expression is very healthy. There can, however be unhealthy or inefficient reasoning behind your self expression. Don't worry about the expression itself, instead work on the inefficient attitudes. In time your self expression will change.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: Jackenobi]
#6211692 - 10/25/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
But in myself i always seek to inhabit a realm of altruism, whatever the mode of expression.
I found this to be an intriguing statement. What do you mean by inhabiting a realm of altruism and expressing it?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6211695 - 10/25/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
There can, however be unhealthy or inefficient reasoning behind your self expression.
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on what you consider to be unhealthy or ineffecient reasoning?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6211726 - 10/25/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Any behavior that causes a large expenditure of energy with little return comparatively. I would consider vanity and blind conformity among these types of emotions. By expenditure of energy I mean any effort or emotion that does not return energy. These must be evaluated individually because all people are different.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Jackenobi
Hermes


Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6211945 - 10/25/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
But in myself i always seek to inhabit a realm of altruism, whatever the mode of expression.
I found this to be an intriguing statement. What do you mean by inhabiting a realm of altruism and expressing it?
Hard to express beyond what i have said, but i think perhaps if you look in the light behind huehuecoyotl's statements you'll find what i was trying to say. He basically expressed it well, in both his posts.
Jeez my brain feels messy right now
Wait i'll try a bit harder. That which i express through appearence is that which i nurture as a kernal of light in my being, given the forum of appearence and therefore bound to my essential purpose of existence... Trying not to fool myself, or others, in that which i present as my being, clothed? That i am happy with what i express, that it is rooted in my tastes and reflects the self that will communicate with the world, that it does not represent falsely.
Though i sometimes think it would be fun to go to a very specific 'scene' type night, dressed in the uniform and spend a night as a fake. This topic is such a can of worms though. The right to call out a fake etc. Though of course if im not into the music...
Shit dude, most of my responses seem to tie with Icelanders Honesty thread, the you that is performing its existence for whatever reason is still you, it is still honest even in its fraudulence as it serves such a purpose.
I think by this point it is clear that we would all be much better off if we ran naked, made fires and beat our chests as we danced round the burning pyres. Though then of course the fire size, drum rhythms and penis sizes would be our sociatally-backdropped arena of competition...
There has been the image of a club (concorde 2 in brighton, though thats unimportant, its more or less nominal, though represents a slightly removed conceptualisation of the background, the field) pressed up against my minds eye for much of this dirge. Just saying, a little Now context.
Art is such a bitch.
But huehuecoyotl has it. Illuminated
-------------------- read books
Edited by Jackenobi (10/25/06 08:18 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6213533 - 10/26/06 10:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
On the one hand, I still harbor the idea that happiness and pleasure can be achieved through looking good and having others perceive me as looking good. On the other hand, I have a suspicion, a dim intuition, that looking good and having others perceive me as looking good is superficial and vain, and that it shouldn't really matter.
Looks are deceiving. If your inner experience is a happy one it will not matter what is going on outside. So if you don't get hooked on the notion that looks are make or break for happiness you can choose to go in "style" or look like Albert Einstein.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/26/06 10:07 AM)
|
Amber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
|
Re: Appearances (aka Conformity Crisis?) [Re: dblaney]
#6213561 - 10/26/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I mix my style from day to day.
One day I will wear lots of black and band t-shirts or other such clothing against the social norm.
Other days I will dress preppy as hell with my nice Guess shirts and Hollister jeans.
Something about switching like this makes me feel like I'm keeping people questioning. What? He dresses like a mild rivethead punk one day and a prep the next? How do I judge him? Can normal people dress abnormal? Can abnormal people dress normal?
Does it work? I don't know.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
|
Re: Appearances [Re: demiu5]
#6214992 - 10/26/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
demius said: I totally agree with you. I mean, I know people are going to express themselves in just about any way possible they feel is appropriate at the time. But there is always a purpose for expressing onesself. Whether it be to release frustration or to get a message across.
What do you mean, "but"?
Quote:
I don't pretend. I am the universal judge of that which is productive or counter-productive...to me. If I see something which, to me, is or is not productive, then, for me, I will label it that way. Correct, it does not necessarily make it true for everyone.
Exactly, but the fact remains that you did not label it that way - you did not include any mention that one's judgement only pertained to oneself and one's views. With this exclusion, unintentional as it likely was, it was presented as a universal, objective judgement, which is what I chose to take issue with.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
|
I think self expression is the pinnacle of self absorbed reality.
art is not "you", art is something bigger than you. It is a building of affinity through agreed upon reality and understanding. It is the transcendence of self and word to reach an understanding of something that words fall short of fully explaining.
|
|