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OfflineEraserhead
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My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter
    #6209988 - 10/25/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So one of my good friends came by last week, with her 11 year old and 6 year old daughter.

The 11 year old has asked her mother if I would be her verbal "godfather" whatever that means.
I accepted.

She is around 3'7" to 4' tall and weighs 110lbs. She's a big girl, so you KNOW she's getting it ROUGH in school.

She has started taking her fingernails and literally raking them down her wrists and arm from stress, leaving blood/scab trails behind.
NOT GOOD! She also eats to console herself causing even more weight gain and even more self esteem issues.

She completely despises pharmaceuticals, and doesn't want to become part of the prozac nation.
I gave her 2 00 gage ginger capsules when she was here, because her stomach was upset. Then I gave her 30 drops (1ml) of Pharma Kava liquid herbal extract, to see if it did her any good.
An hour later she was totally relaxed, and calmed down, and thinking clearly as the kava has a tendency to do.
She has severe problems sleeping at night as well, and I invested in some valerian root powder, to put in capsules and am giving them to the mother to give her 1 a half hour to an hour before bed every night to see if this helps her to sleep. She has been warned the first few days of taking it will leave her a bit groggy/disoriented in the mornings. I haven't given the caps to the mother as of yet, but I am coming here to seek advice on what I can do to help this girl dissociate her stress and keep herself calmed and relaxed.

She is around illegal drugs all the time, knows all about them, and her mother has accidentally handed her a joint before being all fucked up, and her sitting there, you know how that goes, lol. Also, she's had one of those magnetic earrings get lodged far back in her sinuses using it as a nose ring, she was taken to the emergency room, where they literally K-holed her with ketamine to get it back out. She remembers the k-hole vividly.

I'm very good at disassociating pain and emotions from myself, and keeping myself in my "happy" mindset, and am sure I can help her to learn to do the same.
Can anyone suggest any reading materials on meditation that's written so an 11 year old can comprehend, or suggest any other LEGAL herbal remedies to help her through this rough time in childhood.
Her mother is a good person at heart, but her husband seems to have bi-polar disorder, and he snaps from time to time, thinking he's "jesus christ" he's been arrested for obstructing traffic and institutionalized because he was trying to preach to people on the road wearing a bedsheet....he still snaps into jesus mode from time to time, which isn't good for her either imho.

Please, if anyone can offer me suggestions on what to do to help this girl both herbally and verbally, I'd love you forever.
I'm just totally at a loss, I hate seeing people doing this shit to themselves when it's all just shit in their head that they need to learn to work out.
Why the FUCK are kids so fucking mean to each other at school!!


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OfflineTigerMtnCrew
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210043 - 10/25/06 09:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think your best bet would be to offer counseling and some sort of mental therapy, The herbs are also a good move in my opinion as good rest helps all mental wellbeing. As for teaching her to Disassociate from her pain/emotions that is a BAD move, thats a large factor in why kids/teens kill themselves if anything she needs to talk about these things with someone to help put her at ease. At 11 years old children do not need to be taught how to repress their feelings they need to be taken care of and know that there is someone that they can talk too, and you seem like an excellent person to take this role as it seems one or more of her parents are nuttier than squirrel turds! hope It helps a little.  :smile:

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210053 - 10/25/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That is so sad.  First of all, no 11 year old should be subjected to her mother handing her a joint.  That's incredibly irresponsible and wrong.  Not trying to pass judgement on someone I don't even know, but that's really just should not happen. 

My little sister is 10, will be 11 next month, and for a while was getting it pretty bad in school.  She has a mild form of tourettes, and has a tick when she gets nervous.  It's nothing extreme, but if you watch her face you can notice it, for sure.  What shocked me more than the KIDS staring at her, were the parents.  Staring, whispering, pointing...and obviously my sister noticed all of it.  She started getting very depressed and self concious, and having issues sleeping.  It really helped to just sit down and have a talk with her.  I don't live with her, but I made it known that if she ever needs her big sister, just to call me and I'll be there, no matter what.  I tried to tell her to hold her head high and be proud of who she was, and ignore the people who would be mean, because they're not worth it anyways.  She has a core group of best friends who don't pay any attention to her tick, and I told her to spend more time with them, and focus on who her TRUE friends are right now.

That helped a lot.  When she's relaxed, she barely ticks at all. And when she gets enough sleep, she ticks less as well.  So my mother started going for bike rides or walks with her in the afternoon, and walking to pick her up from school instead of driving, to build in some extra exercise, which has not only helped her sleep, but slimmed her down a bit, too :smile:

It's so hard to watch someone you love get picked on.  I've alwaysbeen incredibly protective of my family, especially my little brother and sister.  One day, I had to pick up my little sister from play practice, and she was on stage (and nervous) and her tick was pretty pronounced.  I stood there and watched while the mothers (those who didn't know her) in the audience, pointed, whispered, and one in particular even started LAUGHING, and said "god what's wrong with her face?"  My sister heard every word, and just looked at the woman, smiled, and continued with her rehearsal.  I was so proud of her, for being a bigger person that a 30-something Mom with a bad attitude.  After the rehearsal, I walked my sister to the car, and then walked over to where the mother was standing.  I said to her "Hey, that little girl you laughed at and publically made fun of in there, she happens to be my sister."  She just sort of stammered and didn't know what to say to me.  She said "well...whats WRONG with her face"  I explained that she has a mild form of tourettes that is made worse when she's nervous (like up in front of people) and that it was involuntary.  Then I told her "Unless you want to walk down the street and have people point at your face, wondering who viciously disfigured it, I don't ever want to hear about you making her feel bad, again".  I wish I was bigger than that, and I wish I was able to just walk away, but I can't deal with how mean people can be sometimes.

I would suggest maybe spending more time with this girl, walking her to school, playing with her after school, etc.  It sounds like she doesn't have the luxury of many friends, so it would probably help a lot.  Encourage her to exercise and lose weight.  That's probably a huge part of the problem.  And even if losing weight doesn't make people stop making fun of her...she'll be healthier.  It's so much easier to lose weight when you're young, like she is...don't let her get to be 17-18 and still heavy, she'll really regret that. 

In any case, it sounds like you're on the right track.  I wish I knew more about herbs and stuff to recommend, but I usually take more of a simple approach of just being there and lending support.  Oh, and tell the mother not to feed her so much junk food, and if she's SCRATCHING lines in her arms, she needs to see a therapist.  Immediately.  Someone to talk to is key.

Good luck!!  :heart:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: TigerMtnCrew]
    #6210070 - 10/25/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

See, I learned to dissasociate at a VERY early age, my parents did nothing but fight my whole childhood, I spent most of my time in my bedroom or in the shower (it droned them out and offered a peacefull relaxing white noise). I was also a big kid in school, and took a LOT of sht for it, but I never really let it truly get me down.

Yes, her parent's are a bit on the nutty side, both her kids absolutly adore me, and I have no problems offering her an ear, and advice. The mother trusts me not to lead her daughter anymore astray then the hubby and his "jesus" fits would.... soooo....

When I meant dissasociate, I just meant when it becomes unbarable to withstand, and to learn to focus herself and turn them off. I may not have worded what I exactly meant properly.

Breathing, counting, and focusing away form the stress to happy places/thoughts was more of what I meant.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210076 - 10/25/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Also, 2 quick thoughts. My boyfriend just handed me a book that he has that he thought might be able to help.

It's called "The New Whole Foods Encyclopedia" - A comprehensive resource for healthy eating. It supposedly can help a lot of things like this. The Author is Rebecca Wood.


Also - the fact that the girls was reaching out to you and wants you to be her godfather, and be in her life, means that she trusts you. That's a big deal for an 11 year old with issues, so use that to try to help her however you can.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210095 - 10/25/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Liz said:
That is so sad. First of all, no 11 year old should be subjected to her mother handing her a joint. That's incredibly irresponsible and wrong. Not trying to pass judgement on someone I don't even know, but that's really just should not happen.




I'm in total agreement, I'm just glad her mother didn't hand her her crack pipe, and keeps that hidden from the kids. She used to have MAJOR crack problems, but now she only uses it when she's REALLY down, and she realises it just makes her problems even more worse, after the crack buzz starts to wear off.

I decided to try it with her a few days ago as she and one of her kids dads (my best friend) came over, and left the kids to play and watch movies on my PC while we went upstairs. She ended up blowing her whole paycheck, balling at the end of it trying to figure out how to explain it to her husband. I had just came across about $400 myself, so I gave her $100 and told her she didn't need to pay me back (wich she will, she's a good person at heart, she just fucks up like all of us) She thanked me, and ended up telling her husband what happened, and he promised I'd be payed back as well. It'll be 10-$20 here and there, but I really wasn't worried about it. That was my first and only crack experience, I won't repeat it, it's just not worth it at all, and comming down really does suck.

I adore both her kids, their great kids, they just have some nutjobber parents, and really need a mentor (hence her asking her mother if I'd be her godfather)

I have no problems helping this girl out of her rough spot in life, and doing anything I can to help. I totally appreciate the advice.

The parent's really really can't afford a therapist for her, and nowdays any therapist is just going to offer up pharmacuticals to "fix" the problem and zombifie the child, wich is horrible, but how things work in reality. Hence me asking about any other herbals that may offer the child some stress/anxiety relief, besides what the mind can do on it's own when trained properly.

I hate when people judge others based on phisical ailments, or social status.

I have a panhandler that comes into work all the time, and he knows me by name and I he as well. The other people where I work just laugh and point at him, it's fucking horrible and WRONG!

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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210102 - 10/25/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Liz said:
Also, 2 quick thoughts. My boyfriend just handed me a book that he has that he thought might be able to help.

It's called "The New Whole Foods Encyclopedia" - A comprehensive resource for healthy eating. It supposedly can help a lot of things like this. The Author is Rebecca Wood.


Also - the fact that the girls was reaching out to you and wants you to be her godfather, and be in her life, means that she trusts you. That's a big deal for an 11 year old with issues, so use that to try to help her however you can.




Thank you, hopefully I can find an e-book version to d/l of it although I'm not sure the parents can even afford real food.

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210193 - 10/25/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

They must have health insurance for their kid, and therapy visits would be covered by that, or the vast majority of it at least.  The mother could explain to the therapist that she'd like to avoid giving her child pills, unless absolutely necessary, and would more just like her to have someone to talk to, and maybe he can figure out the root of this.  I think it's pretty sad that she's smoking crack with her kids upstairs :frown:  It doesn't really sound like these kids have a shot at any kind of normal, happy life because of their mother's issues.  That's really unfortunate, and maybe the mother should think about getting some help so that she can be a better parent sto her children.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210203 - 10/25/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I coulden't agree more.
The kids were downstairs on my pc, watching movies and shit, I had to feed them and shit that day too, course I made the 11 year old do all the cooking while I supervised and helped a little.

The crack was kept upstairs and well away from the kids.

I'm not sure about their health insurance, or if they have government assistance, the mom works for steak and shake, not sure where the hubby works.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210209 - 10/25/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

She should either apply for state funded health insurance, or get a job that provides a family insurance plan (if they don't have insurance already). Kids NEED health insurance, especially someone like this girl who is clearly having some issues and needs professional help.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineMaverick
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210247 - 10/25/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Give her a bat and tell her to start venting by hitting the little fuckers who give her problems in school. :wink:  (j/k)

I used to cut when I was younger, it was really bad, but I had serious chemical imbalances.  As I got older, I learned more on how to deal with the stress than relieve it.  And I agree pharms won't fix emotional problems at all if there's an actual event that caused it (death in family, people being mean, etc, pharms don't cure depression for that).

Best legal herbal remedy?  11 years old, I'd say green tea. :wink:

I'd say you'll have to talk (or the mother and father will) to her about her problems, and let her know how much she's loved and supported.  Show that support daily, but don't make it seem like a crutch or pity, show that it's pride and support.  I know that things like that help anyone.

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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210252 - 10/25/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I know the mother is perscribed kolonapin, prozac, and tramadol
She has lesions in her lungs, and won't quit smoking newports, and I'm sure the fucking stem she was smoking the crack from wasn't helping in the LEAST, I kept trying to get her to use my lightbulb vaporizer instead, but whatever, she just won't listen, even tho she knows I'm almost always right.

It's just soo frustrating.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210369 - 10/25/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm prescribed tramadol and klonopin as well, but I barely take the klonopin, just to fly. When I have kids, no more drugs.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210375 - 10/25/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've been taking valiums, pretty much quit smoking weed now.
Not perscribed.. Thanks Joe.

Taking 15mg a day 5mg 3 times daily
I'm all playfull and energetic and flirty, instead of an uptight asshole now :thumbup:


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6210400 - 10/25/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Slap her in the head and tell her to get over it. America is the only place in the world where this matters. You dont find some fat kid in russia cutting up. She just needs to grow up some more. i had to go through the same shit, only i was 5"8' and only 80 lbs. skinny little fucker. she'll get over it. The fact that you're babying her is gonna make it worse in the future.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Liz]
    #6210466 - 10/25/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Most states have mandatory health plans for children under a certain age.

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InvisibleNeon
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6211736 - 10/25/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I would try some herbal adaptogens. They work by increasing or decreasing different body and brain chemicals when needed, reducing stress, anxiety, and depression. Unlike stimulants, adaptogens provide long lasting energy without crashing after the effects wear off.

Here's an example of how adaptogens work, from what I've read so far. Let's say a certain adaptogen works on the serotonin receptor. One of the chemicals in the adaptogen binds to serotonin receptors. If the brain needs more serotonin, it turns the adaptogen chemicals into serotonin. If the brain has too much serotonin, the adaptogen chemical stays in the receptor, blocking serotonin from entering it. Many adaptogens works on multiple receptors, such as serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline etc.

Two adaptogens I would suggest are rhodiola and ashwagandha. Rhodiola works quickly, effects should be felt within three days of use. Rhodiola is generally more energizing than ashwagandha. Ashwagandha takes longer to work, a good effect usually takes a week of use or more. Ashwagandha is generally more calming than rhodiola, it has been used in India to aid in meditation. I am currently using these two adaptogens on a daily basis.

I think this girl would probably benefit most from ashwagandha, it's hard to tell though. Maybe using both would be best. It would be great if you could find a doctor who uses herbs, but it is quite difficult these days. Check you PMs.

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Invisiblepaulie_walnuts1
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6213222 - 10/26/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol, stop feeding her drugs and take her for a jog. Feed her apples and oranges and shit. Maybe cut them up in funny shapes to make the whole having to eat healthy ordeal more bearable.

That harming herself shit is just what she's doing to channel that nervous energy. She needs some god damn exercise. Pretend you care and force her fat ass to start moving around, even if it's just walking. You start to stop feeling sorry for yourself the less you sit around moping about shit.

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: paulie_walnuts1]
    #6213621 - 10/26/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If this girl is fat and is eating to comfort herself, her problems are only going to get worse as she gets older. She is really going to balloon up in the next few years and the teasing and depression and self image is just going to spiral downward.

I was a little heavy in middle and high school (just a little chubby, not even that big) and it still effected me a lot. I was a nice calm guy and people never really made fun of me because I had enough self control not to give them a reaction so I didn't have that pressure on me. I never cut but I did burn myself a few times for different reasons, but it was nothing major. Anyway I think I can understand where this girl is coming from.

She needs to start eating healthy and exercising. She'll start looking better and won't be teased about being fat. She'll start feeling better because she'll actually be healthy. It will fix lots of things. Health, self imagine, confidence, discipline, etc. If you don't break her out of the cycle of being unhealthy, fat, depressed, poor self image, etc. she could end up a real wreck.

You immediately jump to giving this girl herbal drugs? It sounds like the whole family (including you) is on some sort of pharmaceutical or illegal drug. The only chance for this girl is not to depend on drugs (even if herbal, that's just getting her started on the path to pharmies).

Anyway with how dysfunctional this family sounds I doubt it's going to be easy to get the parents to start buying healthy food for the kid and a pair of jogging shoes so she can walk around the block a couple times.

Good luck to you and to this poor girl.

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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: My friends 11 year old daughter is turning into a cutter [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6218057 - 10/27/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, their medicade got canceled during a job transfer, found that out, so therapist is in the picture whenever they can get it back.  They were suppost to be mailed a form, but the government is so fucking slowheaded, and they called back and gave them a fax number, but it was the wrong fax number, it was to someones house.

working on Neon's suggestions, thanks again dude!

Found out the father (their divorced) doesn't think the kid has problems (apparently he can't see the fingernail tracks down her arm) fucking moron. He keeps her on the weekends, so getting the herbals to her on the weekend may prove dificult, but she's a smart girl and can keep that shit on the DL.
She may be getting transferred to the gifted school :thumbup: but she doesn't want to go cause some kid there that treats her good, was asking her if she's ever had a boyfriend :wink:


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