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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: landsnorkler]
    #6189264 - 10/20/06 03:35 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think so too.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6189266 - 10/20/06 03:36 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"i'm getting tired of hearing this ridiculous argument."

My logic is sound. The argument you present has no basis in fact. My argument is based in the fact that there is zero indication of life after death...which is sound science as well as logical.




there is also zero indication that there is not life after death and if you challenge this, then i challenge your assumption that there is zero indication of life after death. there may be a lack of proof or solid scientific evidence but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence. check out the website www.near-death.com for several points of evidence.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Deviate]
    #6189296 - 10/20/06 03:48 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Umm...

The divine experience upon death doesn't necessarily(hate that word) have to do with afterlife. Just a thought.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: slaphappy]
    #6189319 - 10/20/06 03:55 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i never said it did, im simply saying the idea of an after life isn't always fear based.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Deviate]
    #6189322 - 10/20/06 03:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

If the idea of afterlife is fear based, then the idea of not having an afterlife is fear based as well.

Please God let there be more to it than this.

vs.

Oh no, don't send me to theplacewhereitneverends.

:smile:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: slaphappy]
    #6189480 - 10/20/06 06:07 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

that's exactly what i was saying.


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OfflineBristolRob
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: phish_head_wi]
    #6189625 - 10/20/06 08:53 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

phish_head_wi said:
Quote:

BristolRob said:
This scare story...who told you this? Was it a parent, a priest, or is it just your intuition?




Nobody told me it, I felt it after my first LSD epxerience. I was convinced that I had done something terrible in taking LSD and that the exprience I? hah had was so intense and earth shattering that
I must have lost something as a result.

I also had this pseudo-psychotic belief that I now knew everything. I thought I could literally see the fabric of space and time and because of this I knew how the world was made and how it worked. I
thought that through attaining this I had sacrificed my soul.

In retrospect this conviction was delusional.


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Offlinephish_head_wi
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
    #6192357 - 10/20/06 09:50 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

damn dude how much did you eat or drop? that kinda creeped me out cause i can sort of understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you sold your soul. I had a dream where I was about to die, and i felt exactly how I do right when i start tripping, and right before I died I was tripping and then I woke up. It made wonder if that's what it's like when you die...prolly not but it was z crazy dream.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
    #6192426 - 10/20/06 10:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BristolRob said:
Nobody told me it, I felt it after my first LSD epxerience. I was convinced that I had done something terrible in taking LSD and that the exprience I? hah had was so intense and earth shattering that
I must have lost something as a result.

I also had this pseudo-psychotic belief that I now knew everything. I thought I could literally see the fabric of space and time and because of this I knew how the world was made and how it worked. I
thought that through attaining this I had sacrificed my soul.

In retrospect this conviction was delusional.




Interesting read. It seems that you developed some awareness and understanding in the process. :thumbup:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
    #6193060 - 10/21/06 01:42 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I am sorry that this idea assumed monsterous proportions for you. Many people manifest latent guilt after taking psychedelics. In my experience, Catholic-raised tripping partners suffered from this the most for a complex array of reasons.

Psychedelically-induced ego-death has characterized spiritual Initiation throughout history. Most of the associations to early Christian rituals have been lost (except perhaps the excavated basilica with mosaics that illustrated use of Amanita muscaria mushrooms) but the Eleusinian Mysteries using a lysergic acid beverage were practiced in pre-Christian to Christian era Greece for a thousand years. Contrary to Christian propaganda, these rites were sacred, and the advent of Christ did not render them demonic. Nevertheless, substance use has long been overlaid with associations to mere inebriation, what Christians call 'dissipation' and with vice.

Your concern sounds more like fear of divine retribution for storming the proverbial gates of heaven with psychedelics than anything else. It may occur to you to be sorcery (pharmakeia, i.e., drugs) or an evil surrogate for the Eucharist. I don't know what religion[s] you were taught or exposed to, but psychedelics, if anything, may "occasion" a mystical experience - an experience of Ultimate Reality while one is still alive and well, not in a post-mortem condition. Try to see such experiences in their psychospiritual implications and not in terms of their biological correlations.

If it's any intellectual consolation, you cannot 'lose' your soul, since you ARE a soul. Soul (Psyche in Greek) is embodied (Soma) Mind (Nous). We are a mind-body, psychosomatic, from a Biblical perspective. Language like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul?" implies a life lived for materiality, not the loss of an ethereal substance from one's body. The term spirit (Pneuma) is a third constituent but you aren't going there. I realize that the images of the devil taking our soul at death is firmly ingrained in the Collective Unconscious, but it is more important to understand the symbols and their emotional correlates than to experience fear over completely misunderstood religious notions.

Peace be with you.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/21/06 08:39 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Deviate]
    #6193260 - 10/21/06 02:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence"

Near death experiences are experiences recounted by people that DID NOT die.

I strongly feel that the afterlife hypothesis...be it reality...or myth...gives many people the impression that life is unimportant and that they have all the time in the universe to put off being who they really want to be. By accepting death as my constant companion I am always reminded that I must act, and act now. There may be no tomorrow for any of us, but right now I am very much alive and I want to be alive to the fullest extent that I can. I refuse to join the ranks of the immortals.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6193639 - 10/21/06 08:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence"

Near death experiences are experiences recounted by people that DID NOT die.




you obviously didn't review all of the points of evidence, since they weren't all based on NDEs. furthermore, how do you define death? some people who have had NDE actually did techinically die (by certain medical definitions) and then were brought back, i believe. but i really don't want to get into a drawn out debate over the evidence for life after death. you may not accept the evidence, you may not the think there is any good evidence but the point is there is not "zero indication" of life after death as you claimed. it's a matter of interpretation and what one considers "indication".

Quote:


I strongly feel that the afterlife hypothesis...be it reality...or myth...gives many people the impression that life is unimportant and that they have all the time in the universe to put off being who they really want to be.




i strongly feel that the no afterlife hypothesis...be it reality or myth... gives many people the impression that life is unimportant because no matter what they do they are going to die anyway and it won't really matter in the end.

Quote:

By accepting death as my constant companion I am always reminded that I must act, and act now. There may be no tomorrow for any of us, but right now I am very much alive and I want to be alive to the fullest extent that I can. I refuse to join the ranks of the immortals.




by accepting life as my constant companion, i am always reminded that i cannot escape the consequences of my actions, not now and not even in death. thus, i must act and act now.


first of all, i posted those responses to show that whether or not one believes in an afterlife, it needn't necessarily have any bearing on how much they procrastinate. there are people who believe in no afterlife who spend their lives doing as little as possible, always being lazy and never living up to their potential never feeling truly alive and not even caring and then there are people who believe in infinite lives who are some of the most alive, motivated and effective people you'll ever meet.

so what you posted above may work just fine for you, but don't assume it applies to all people. and either way, its irrevelant to your original assumption that the idea of an afterlife is always fear based.


Edited by Deviate (10/21/06 08:14 AM)


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? *DELETED* [Re: BristolRob]
    #6194220 - 10/21/06 02:53 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: soulcircus]
    #6194428 - 10/21/06 04:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: finally.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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