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 BristolRob
Stranger
Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 12
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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 Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? 
#6183420 - 10/18/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Of course, I don't expect anyone to convincingly answer the question because it's practically impossible to know the answer.
It is theoretically possible to conduct a survey of individuals that have had near death experiences, look at those that have taken psychedelics and see whether their new death experience was qualitatively different to someone who has not taken psychedelics.
Some might argue that the psychedelic experience is actually a near death experience i.e., qualitatively and perhaps biologically related to the actual processes that occur leading up to death.
Essentially, I posted this topic to ask whether anyone had ever heard this "myth" "tale" "scare story" whatever you want to call it - that taking psychedelics denies you the experience of divinity and heavenly bliss upon death. I post this from personal experience also as my first LSD experience was defined by the hollow fealing that I had somehow "sold my soul" that my soul was now lost and I would not be allowed to experience the wonders of heaven upon death... It was a scary idea but something I was convinced of at the time
Let me know your thoughts,
Cheers,
Rob
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Paramemetic
Emergent
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 167
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6183426 - 10/18/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't believe so, but then, I don't know exactly what you mean by a "divine experience upon death." I don't know any active proscriptions in the Catholic church against psychedelics ... or even with the Mormons. I'm unsure. The Islamists would (I believe) say it's an intoxication that would be sinful, but it may not deny whatever afterlife. I'm unsure how things work from that perspective.
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"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48
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Viveka
refutation bias
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6183434 - 10/18/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did you find you were robbed of a divine experience upon taking your second trip?
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Jackenobi
Hermes
Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6183446 - 10/18/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BristolRob said:
Of course, I don't expect anyone to convincingly answer the question because it's practically impossible to know the answer.
It is theoretically possible to conduct a survey of individuals that have had near death experiences, look at those that have taken psychedelics and see whether their new death experience was qualitatively different to someone who has not taken psychedelics.
Some might argue that the psychedelic experience is actually a near death experience i.e., qualitatively and perhaps biologically related to the actual processes that occur leading up to death.
Essentially, I posted this topic to ask whether anyone had ever heard this "myth" "tale" "scare story" whatever you want to call it - that taking psychedelics denies you the experience of divinity and heavenly bliss upon death. I post this from personal experience also as my first LSD experience was defined by the hollow fealing that I had somehow "sold my soul" that my soul was now lost and I would not be allowed to experience the wonders of heaven upon death... It was a scary idea but something I was convinced of at the time
Let me know your thoughts,
Cheers,
Rob
dark
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read books
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 Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6183447 - 10/18/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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As far as anyone knows the only thing awaiting you after death is an eternity of non-existence. The whole notion of life after death is fear based assumptions as far as anyone can know. Worry about creating your divine experience here and now.....not after you die. Talk about backwards priorities....
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6183466 - 10/18/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I mostly agree here but I'm not sure that all notions of life after death are fear based. Many are for sure.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Icelander]
#6183484 - 10/18/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why hope for the unknown. I am happy now.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Icelander]
#6183499 - 10/18/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I mostly agree here but I'm not sure that all notions of life after death are fear based. Many are for sure.
The concepts of life after death that are fear-based are usually denoted with moving the biggest chunk of the hardest, longest-lasting (preferably shiny or smooth) object in the area to the spot where one will be laid to rest and trying to live on through it by trying to encode one's identity in it.
Either that, or by realizing that it is ashes to ashes and dust to dust, but to still distinguish one's ashes from the ashes and one's dust from the dust by encapsulating one's ashes and one's dust in a container.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6184587 - 10/18/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
As far as anyone knows the only thing awaiting you after death is an eternity of non-existence. The whole notion of life after death is fear based assumptions as far as anyone can know. Worry about creating your divine experience here and now.....not after you die. Talk about backwards priorities....
i'm getting tired of hearing this ridiculous argument. by your logic, i could claim the whole notion of non existence after death is a fear based assumption as far as anyone can know. afterall, the idea of existing forever and not being able to stop is far more frightening to some people (myself included) than non existence. i could go into more detail on the reasons one might believe in life after death but i dont think this this debate is really the subject of this thread.
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mrEdude
enemy of the state
Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 231
Loc: Canada
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Deviate]
#6184758 - 10/19/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Psychedelics do not rob you of a divine experience after death.
You'll probably 'get it' more than the mindless mystified masses, having experienced eternity already yourself, but just because it isn't a surprise doesn't make it less beautiful.
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: mrEdude]
#6184838 - 10/19/06 01:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is more to life than you see here. This is just one single tiny fraction of the multitudes of the universe. When you die your consciousness goes into oneness and from oneness spawns all consciousness(es) but its not dividable into "you's" and "me's" in oneness, only in realities, so remembering, or actually seeing death for your personal self is by this definition impossible.
I have also had the conviction of destroying my entire life, and robbing myself of the afterlife - being stuck in this life forever, because I was unable to avoid eating the fruit of knowledge.
Its just lower levels of onion-layered-brainwashing being shred. Its just in your mind, deep down. 
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
 
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BristolRob
Stranger
Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 12
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: slaphappy]
#6185087 - 10/19/06 04:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, I suppose its the ultimate scare story for someone with a religious upbringing - if you ask me whether I still believe it, all I could say is I don't know.
I think nowadays my concept of God had changed dramatically. I now envisage religion as essentially something felt - rather than being based on a particular culture and indoctrination. It's the same with my concept of God, I no longer see him/her/it in a bodily form but rather something everwhere and in everything - I think perhaps God is just life or/and love. I actually think the idea of giving God a context isnt useful.
If asked do I believe in God now, I would say I believe in a feeling
Edited by BristolRob (10/19/06 04:21 AM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6186104 - 10/19/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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the near death experience is a real psychological experience, like dreaming.
I am not aware of any evidence suggesting that psychedelic drug use is either positively or negatively correlated with the likelihood of having a near death experience.
Current research seems to indicate that EVERYONE has a near death experience while dying, but not everyone who comes back can recall it, again like dreaming. (we all have them, we dont all remember them)
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Moonshoe]
#6186128 - 10/19/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah the NDE. The final dream of the dying brain. Like shock in the captured prey, it's often merciful. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Icelander]
#6186240 - 10/19/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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looking at the near death experience, one pattern becomes clear. The content of the NDE is almost universally soothing, to an extraordinary degree. In fact, the whole process seems like a carefully planned psychotherapeutic experience designed to ease the transition out of the physical life we have known.
People review their lives content in the presence of a loving and forgiving being of light.
They are met by "greeters" who are basically whoever the person most wants to see... a parent who has died before, a lover, a family pet...
I draw no conclusions as of yet... but i find it all very intriguing.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Deviate]
#6188055 - 10/19/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"i'm getting tired of hearing this ridiculous argument."
My logic is sound. The argument you present has no basis in fact. My argument is based in the fact that there is zero indication of life after death...which is sound science as well as logical.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Maitereya
bohemian
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 120
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6188978 - 10/20/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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moonshoe: "People review their lives content in the presence of a loving and forgiving being of light.
They are met by "greeters" who are basically whoever the person most wants to see... a parent who has died before, a lover, a family pet..."
i have actually heard this before from a few sources. its a nice idea but idk what to believe about after death as of yet, honestly i try not to think about it too much. just accept it,
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phish_head_wi
Stranger
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6189052 - 10/20/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BristolRob said:
Yes, I suppose its the ultimate scare story for someone with a religious upbringing
This scare story...who told you this? Was it a parent, a priest, or is it just your intuition?
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Zogby
This is Sussudio
Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 125
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: phish_head_wi]
#6189062 - 10/20/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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the closest i ever came to God was 20 Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. Will never do that again
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"We know where they (Weapons of Mass Destruction) are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
-Donald Rumsfeld
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landsnorkler
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Montana
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Re: Do psychedelic rob you of a divine experience upon death? [Re: BristolRob]
#6189117 - 10/20/06 12:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do psychedelics rob you of a divine experience upon death?
No, of course not. They make the dying process a little bit more understandable.
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