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InvisibleMoonshoe
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The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step
    #6178055 - 10/17/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)



Hey amigos.

So i dont know about you, but im a very curious person. Im curious about what my place in life is, what it means to be a human, what it means to be an earthling, where im going, where my species is going.

Thinking on these topics, i had a few ideas that helped shift my perspective on our current global situation.

One thing that always worried me as an adolescent was the way that humans have desecrated earth's natural biospheres and its supporting environment.

Humans are consuming 80% of all the world's resources and wiping out thousands of other beautifull species.

This used to bother me alot.

However, since then i have begun to study the Gaia hypothesis.

The gaia hypothesis is something i believe everyone should check out.

Basically, it goes like this: your own body, your human body, is composed of billions upon billions of single cellular organisms. All of these organisms function independently of one another. All of them strive to preserve their own individual homeostasis, and all of them have some extremely reduced form of individual awareness.

When thousands of like single celled organisms get together, they form tissues, and then organs. These tissues, despite being made of billions of disparate organisms, function as a unified whole.

Somehow, miraculously, at the very top of the line, you as a human being are able to have a single, unified, collective awareness. Despite being a multitude onto yourself, you have a greater awareness that is singular.

The gaia hypothesis arises from studying the intricate systems that sustain life on earth. When you study environmental science, you realize that the earth has a "cardiac system" that functions to distribute minerals and nutrients to various "tissues" on the planets surface. You realize it has a "respiratory system" that allows it to purify and recycle its oxygen. it has countless other systems that fufill more or less biological functions.

The idea is that the planet is in fact one super-massive organism and just as we somehow develop an "emergent conciousness" composed of the billions of tiny conciousnesses in our cells, so does earth or Gaia possess a massive, unifying and sentient planet conciousness composed of the trillions of life forms and life systems it contains.

This idea ties in somewhat with the idea that evolution is in some way a purposefull process.

I repeat: evolution is a purposefull process.

What i mean is that it seems clear to me that the natural tendency of non-life is to organize into life, and the natural tendency of life is to evolve into more complex forms.

When i was studying how life evolved on earth, i thought it was fascinating how all life stems from INORGANIC compounds.

Non living molecules of carbon and other materials began spontaneously self organizing, and over millions of years the first simple biotic creatures existed.

Think about that... something "not alive" SELF organized into something alive...

strange.

But it doesnt stop there. Once the evolutionary ball was set in motion, we see the symphony of life, the parade of life unfold. And of course we all know how the first squiggly jellies crawled out of the sea and as the parade rolls on we find the evolution of creatures such as dolphins, orangutangs, ultimatly people, with there culture, there music, there love, dancing and religion.



So what is my point? my point is that human kind could never have understood or predicted or created the processes that led to our arisal on this planet. Something, some mind vastly greater than ours is at work.

Now, consider the industrial revolution and the explosion of human population on earth. In the last few centuries, humankind has risen to dominate the biological sphere on earth.

At one point this seemed to me a huge problem. Now i realize this is just one more page in the book of life, one more directed change on the behalf of the overarching Gaia or God conciousness.

Bear with me. Consider for a moment the evolution of the human being.

Looking at fossil records, we can see a point in human evolution of massive significance, namely the first development of the frontal lobe, the part of the brain capable of personality, speech, all things we consider important and human.

When this anomalous brain structure first appeared in primates, it was very small. Almost instantly, the species underwent a massive change, and in a very short time the frontal lobe had swelled to many times it original size.

Why? because the underlying or overarching intelligence at work recognized in the frontal lobe something of massive importance.

Now, compare this to the explosion of humanity. If the planet is aware, then it is my belief that when humans arose, the planetary intelligence saw there something of massive import. Thus, it allowed massive stores of biomass and energy to be funneled into the proliferation and development of this new kind of life.

Just as early monkey's used most of their food and sugar energy to support the growth of this new and amazing frontal lobe and the conciousness it makes possible, so i believe Gaia or God mind has purposefully let humankind run rampant because it recognizes in human kind the next step in its long and purposefull plan, and its Gaia's way to let less complex biomass be consumed to support more complex biomass, showing once again Life's tendency towards increasing levels of organization.

:smile:

Anyways. The next thing i wanted to talk about was morality. Morality, roughly speaking, is a manner of conduct, a system of ideas pertaining to right and wrong, and generally the idea that right is desirable.

I have alot of problems with morality and the way it has evolved. But i do notice something significant.

In all of the animal kingdom, only a handfull of creatures display even the most basic forms of morality.

These animals are the dolphin, the orangutang, the chimp, the gorilla, the elephant and the human.

All of these animals display some form of morality, some form of altruism, some capacity to put the other before the self.

All of these animals also have the most developed brains on the planet.

This to me is a clear indicator that morality is an emergent property of evolution

this has staggering implications.

Firstly, it means that anyone who denies morality utterly, denies his evolutionary heritage and voluntary reduces himself to the level of the lower mammal, the reptile.

Secondly, it indicates that seen in its entirety (up to the present) the natural course of the universe is to go from

No life to simple life, from simple life to complex life, and from complex life to MORAL AND SPIRITUAL LIFE.

From these various pieces and parts a pattern emerges.

That the world is aware, that the universe is guided by a grand and progressive intelligence, that life is evolving towards a teleological goal, and that that goal is at least in part the development of first moral and  eventually spiritual conciousness.

This adds a new dimension to the traditional theistic idea that god created men as companions for him. It seems to me now that god created not only men but all life to EVENTUALLY EVOLVE TO A STATE IN WHICH KNOWLEDGE OF THE CREATOR WOULD BE POSSIBLE.

Amazingly, YOU know find yourself in such a state.

YOU stand at the pinnacle of this multi trillion year process.

for some reason Gaia wants humans  right now.

So now the ball is in our court. We are here to do something, to fufill some vital role in this cosmic process.

So let us all buckle down, figure out what we need to do as individuals and as a species, and get to work.

Love



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/17/06 10:42 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6178142 - 10/17/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Firstly, it means that anyone who denies morality utterly, denies his evolutionary heritage and voluntary reduces himself to the level of the lower mammal, the reptile.

Ya think? I deny morality. Oops! :monkeydance:

Well, maybe it depends on what you mean by morality? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/17/06 11:19 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Icelander]
    #6178149 - 10/17/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I do think parts of this hypothesis may be valid though. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6178585 - 10/17/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

About the first part I agree wholeheartedly. much much :thumbup:

The second part I have to reread, as I don't think morality necessarily stems from a 'complex' mind.
"All of these animals display some form of morality, some form of altruism, some capacity to put the other before the self."
What about ants, or bees ? And dolphins are not really soo cute. They can act quite violent on 'outsiders' (even from 'within' their group) or other cases I forgot at the moment :crazy:
Morality seems to originally stem from some universal principle, beginning with the smallest self, then concerning the immediate surroundings, and then further outgoing and outranging interaction-areas which might be in concern.
The range of this concern is relative. Ants are small but they concern many individuals as hive. Bees too, but they concern a much larger area as they can fly.
Humans are a bit bigger and their brain is more complex, but is their 'care' for their enlarged surrounding (hopefully their self, their family, society, enlarged on their environment, the planet, the universe) is qualitatively any different then the ant caring about the hive ??
:smile:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMaitereya
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6178654 - 10/17/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

its not so much denying morality. its accepting spirituality, then morality comes as a kind of after affect.

we are all small organisms in the 'collective unconsciousness'.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Maitereya]
    #6178665 - 10/17/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think if we used the word ethics instead of morality, (as in personal ethics) I wouldn't get edgy about this discussion


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6180261 - 10/17/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think Gaia is pretty self-evident if you really think about it. Every ecosystem has its own digestive system, immune system, etc. And an ecosystem in one part of the world affects ecosystems in other parts. For example, the Amazon rainforest takes in a lot of carbon dioxide and prevents the world from warming too much(though we're doing a lot now to undermine that). It kind of makes you think about how we are a multitude of organisms as well. It's interesting how the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts.

Quote:

I repeat: evolution is a purposefull process.



Hard to prove, but I agree. This is one problem I have with neo-Darwinists like Richard Dawkins. They've been adamant in repeating that evolution is "purposeless," to the point that High School text books say that. Such a claim is not falsifiable, and as such should not be taught as science.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Silversoul]
    #6180314 - 10/17/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

My question would be, is earth conscious in a way that we can relate to.

I have read about the way cells connect to form more complex systems. I have sat on a mountain side on five grams of shrooms and looked down on the interconnecting lights of the city miles away and been reminded of this. Could the earth be using us to form a more complex consciousness for herself?  Me sits and me wonders. :cool:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Icelander]
    #6180365 - 10/17/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

are you guys saying that the earth is aware in another way besides our awareness?


Edited by TameMe (10/17/06 08:32 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: TameMe]
    #6180373 - 10/17/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It would be unlikely that the earth would be aware in exactly the same way we are. Still I would hope for some similarities. She must, I think, be of a higher order than man. Lets hope so for her sake. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6180395 - 10/17/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

just as cancers eat away at animals, did you ever think that maybe we are a cancer eating away at the "earth organism", grown so rampant it is unable to contain us until either it destroys itself or we take it down, in turn taking us down?

Concerning the morality, it is culture. How it developed, I do not know, but there is no constant morality.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineLion
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: demiu5]
    #6180405 - 10/17/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
just as cancers eat away at animals, did you ever think that maybe we are a cancer eating away at the "earth organism", grown so rampant it is unable to contain us until either it destroys itself or we take it down, in turn taking us down?

Concerning the morality, it is culture. How it developed, I do not know, but there is no constant morality.


I used to think we were a cancer - now I'm not so sure. We are definitely an organism though, for better of for worse. And as for constant morality - who are we to say? I personally suspect that the universe has a strong preference for Joy, Love, and Compassion for all things.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineTrippinNinjaBuddha
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6180566 - 10/17/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I believe some dolphins have been known to rape and/or kill other dolphins.  This, however, would seem to support this whole morality argument.  Why would all the animals accept morality except for human beings?  There must be some dolphins or elephants who are total dicks.  Think Scar from the Lion King.

:laugh:


--------------------
Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #6181169 - 10/18/06 01:38 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I like this theory. Ethics and morality is something inevitable if a population grows above a certain number and has to cooperate to avoid extinction. Spirituality comes from recognizing our/its/their own existence, imho. So yes, the complexity grows and creates spirituality and morality. However the cancer starts in society, more specifically: This society, which supresses our spirituality, and regress into devolution by forcing its people to work hard to consume everything in its way, brainwash them into thinking its the right way to evolution or progress. The thing is that we have split ourselves up, divided ourselves, conquered ourselves...because we think, somehow, it'll fix itself.

It wont. We'll suddenly wake up and realize ... but that won't be enough ... we have to actually *realize*, i.e. make the awakening *real*, and not just press "snooze" and go back to sleep for another decade. We as a population, as a whole, must wake up, and force ourselves to go to actual work. Which is whatever which will sustain and clean up the mess we've made of this planet.

Its another page in the book, yes, but the turning point is about to come along and no matter how sad and exhausting the book is, we will be unable to put it down if we want to save ourselves - as a population, or as a planet, or as a consciousness. Peace :smile:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineWasteland
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6181206 - 10/18/06 02:19 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You say that Earth functions much like an organism.

I believe that this statement is merely an error in observation. The Earth itself is just thermal, kinectic and potential energy acting in traditional physical manners.

To say that it is alive, is to say I am drinking Coca-Cola Zero from a container made of solidified blood (aluminium).

You say that the prefontal lobes of apes where suddenly boosted by an unknown entity.

I prefer to think of the chaos of the universe as the main factor in this achievement.

I would have read all of your post, and commented as so, but I am very tired at the moment and I still have much to do before I rest.


--------------------
The Mad Shroomer said:
People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver. :frown:


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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: slaphappy]
    #6181218 - 10/18/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I like the sound of the Hypothesis. Much of it makes sense to me. Thank you for sharing.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #6181219 - 10/18/06 02:29 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TacticalBongRip said:
I like the sound of the Hypothesis. Much of it makes sense to me. Thank you for sharing.




:1up:


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #6182280 - 10/18/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

TNB and slaphappy, yes, good points. Perhaps I thought too fast :thumbup:

Do simpler organisms really don't have any relation to morality other than in our minds ?
processing...

Hmmm...perhaps yes. They do moral things, but without knowing about them...
...processing...
:laugh:
...
perhaps they are simply limited on their choice about morality :smile:
...processing...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Icelander]
    #6182401 - 10/18/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

When i talk about the evolution of morality, i see it beginning first with an actual recognition that whatever it is we value in the self is actually present in the other...

Basically im refering to a shift in conciousness from simple self-gratification to a state of being where one can actually "care" in some basic way about the other.

When i talked about monkeys, the example is simple. If one monkey drops something, another monkey that is closer will pick it up and hand it to the other monkey, simply to save it a few seconds and some effort. This action was neither nescesary for the survival of the community nor was it beneficial to the helping monkey individually.

it was simply a kind act. It demonstrates consideration for the other.

And to answer another posters question, yes i think this differs very significantly from the actions of a bee in blind service to the hive.

I think this is the first real emergence of the seeds of a true spiritual morality.

Of course i dont mean morality in its discriminative, divisive or repressive functions. I mean morality simply as recognition of the value of the other, even to the extent that one can put other before self.

"Could the earth be using us to form a more complex consciousness for herself?"

Ahhh... exactly what i was wondering

:smile:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6182721 - 10/18/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

In that example, how would you differentiate morality from cooperation and/or empathy?

Does the ape help another ape because he believes it is right, or because (generations earlier) un-cooperative, non-empathic ape's genetic lines were less likely to be continued? (You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, we'll all still be alive to procreate.)

How can we truly say that cooperative/empathic behavior is not related to survival, and thus a selected trait? Perhaps picking up someone else's dropped food & handing it to them does not immediately impact the ape's survival, but the overall tendency to cooperate could mean that one band of apes survives a food scarcity & another does not.


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