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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: demiu5]
#6180405 - 10/17/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
demius said: just as cancers eat away at animals, did you ever think that maybe we are a cancer eating away at the "earth organism", grown so rampant it is unable to contain us until either it destroys itself or we take it down, in turn taking us down?
Concerning the morality, it is culture. How it developed, I do not know, but there is no constant morality.
I used to think we were a cancer - now I'm not so sure. We are definitely an organism though, for better of for worse. And as for constant morality - who are we to say? I personally suspect that the universe has a strong preference for Joy, Love, and Compassion for all things.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Icelander]
#6186385 - 10/19/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently learned about Hegel's (man, I would love to go back in time and dose that guy, but that's another topic in itself ) theory of thesis-negative synthesis. It really got me thinking about the implicit order we can find behind the evolution of planetary biology and, more recently (more importantly?), the synthesis of human culture.
A thought occurred to me in a discussion with a friend last night: Darwinism offers its theory of how life could have begun spontaneously out of a 'primordial soup' - but nowhere does it explain how organisms could be coded so that their primary goal is reproduction. Their argument is that it is logical, but why? Why does one organism exist to perpetuate its genetic material, if its going to the dirt anyway? This is a mechanism which cannot be explained by random causality, and it is the catalyst for the continuation of life itself across vast spans of time.
I remember watching a show about dolphins. They can refer to one another in the third person, coordinate complex group maneuvers by vocalizing, etc. But what really fascinated me was a story about a man and a dolphin which he befriended. This man would go out every day to the same reef with his snorkel and fins, and eventually developed a relationship with a dolphin based purely on play. He brought objects with him like shiny balls and spent hours in a play-dance with the dolphin. One day he found himself face to face with a 12-ft. hammerhead. The dolphin, which was well out of harm's way, swam at full speed and headbutted the hammerhead to the ground - it risked its own life for a play partner - not even a biological mother-child instinct or territorial dispute. To me this demonstrated Ideal Compassion - compassion worthy of putting one's life on the line. This was only sweetened by the nature of the two organisms' relationship - it was a purely aesthetic relationship. Tim Leary once said that the highest goal of man is to live in aesthetic life based on the dance. So perhaps hard-wired into evolution is the movement not only toward Compassion, but toward Play. To quote Terence McKenna quoting Heraclitus: "The Aeon is a child at play with rubber balls."
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Veritas]
#6186942 - 10/19/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
how organisms could be coded so that their primary goal is reproduction
Turn the question around: would an organism which was not primarily focused on reproduction avoid becoming extinct? Apparently not, since the organisms which manage to survive and be studied by science all prioritize reproduction. 
If a random genetic mutation either aids survival or does not interfere with survival, it will have a chance at being passed on to another generation. If it interferes with survival enough to reduce or eliminate passing on the genetic trait, then that mutation will not continue to be expressed.
This seems fairly simple & straightforward to me.
Right. What I'm asking is, how do individual life-forms become coded for the survival of the species? At what point in the primordial soup was a mechanism formed in the basic building blocks of life which created the impulse to create more life? This is a broad philosophical question, I realize, but is something I think secular science overlooks: there is no inherent reason to exist if one life is confined between two infinities of non-existent, yet all life-forms prefer the future existence of their kind, despite their own imminent demise, over the demise of their species altogether.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Lion]
#6186986 - 10/19/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I realize how convoluted this post is - I just woke up from a nap, so cut me some slack. Basically, I get that walruses want there to be more walruses in the future, but evolutionary theorists have never explained why in terms of the origins of life. It's a black hole in the theory, the universal (or planetary, at least) law that says creatures want there to be more creatures like them after they're dead.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step [Re: Icelander]
#6187082 - 10/19/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Isn't that like asking what's the meaning of life? Nobody can answer such questions with certainty.
Hah, true! I guess I'm just bothered that science has kind of brushed the question off as incidental.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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