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OfflineTrancedShroom
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Diverse mushroom species
    #6174792 - 10/16/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

How are psilocybe crossed to make new types? Is it achievable from home?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #6174822 - 10/16/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Do a search for protoplast fusion.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6175067 - 10/16/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Seems like there has always been a lot of interest in this area. Perhaps someone should make a FAQ or TEK or guide. I know you've done a lot of work in the area RR. Some links to the work Workman has done would also be very good. His work with albino x PE is quite interesting and shows genetic principles behind things.

Protoplast fusion is not doable at home, unless you happen to have a small lab in your house. It's not incredibly hard, but you would need a flow hood, pressure cooker, a filtration apparatus, an edelbach, a handful of glassware, the proper media, a witches brew of enzymes, and a couple hundred petri dishes. And it would be useful to have a centrifuge.

A beginners guide would be pretty educational I would think. Discuss F1, F2, independent assortment of chromosomes, recombination, mating types/compatibility, etc.

It's a complex subject and it would be good to teach the basics and steer people away from thinking they can throw two strains together and call it a new strain or race. Or that they can combine different species without extensive work involved. (e.g. protoplast fusion)


-FF

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: fastfred]
    #6175114 - 10/16/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Here's an article by a good friend of mine, Dr John Holliday, who is also a member here, although not still active. http://www.nwbotanicals.org/nwb/lexicon/hybridcordyceps.htm
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflinemyCo_psyCo
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: fastfred]
    #6175179 - 10/16/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Seems like there has always been a lot of interest in this area. Perhaps someone should make a FAQ or TEK or guide. I know you've done a lot of work in the area RR. Some links to the work Workman has done would also be very good. His work with albino x PE is quite interesting and shows genetic principles behind things.

Protoplast fusion is not doable at home, unless you happen to have a small lab in your house. It's not incredibly hard, but you would need a flow hood, pressure cooker, a filtration apparatus, an edelbach, a handful of glassware, the proper media, a witches brew of enzymes, and a couple hundred petri dishes. And it would be useful to have a centrifuge.

A beginners guide would be pretty educational I would think. Discuss F1, F2, independent assortment of chromosomes, recombination, mating types/compatibility, etc.

It's a complex subject and it would be good to teach the basics and steer people away from thinking they can throw two strains together and call it a new strain or race. Or that they can combine different species without extensive work involved. (e.g. protoplast fusion)


-FF




are there any good books that you would suggest that go in to detail of this?


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: myCo_psyCo]
    #6175360 - 10/16/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yes!  I'm glad you asked.  There is a good book called "Genetics and Breeding of Edible Mushrooms" by A.C. Chang.

http://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Breeding-Edible-Mushrooms-Chang/dp/2881245617

However it is a very advanced book.  It doesn't cover any of the basics.  It's similar to what you'd expect at a scientific conference, which is what it's based from.  It deals a lot with breeding programs and advanced experiments like protoplast fusions.

There are better texts that would teach you a lot more, unless you already have a very good understanding of the basics.

I can't remember any good texts of the top of my head, but one thing to remember is that basic genetics is the same with respect to all organisms that reproduce sexually.  So reading a basic genetics text or any text on breeding will teach you a lot.  It does teach quite a bit about mating types and sexual compatibility though, which taught me quite a bit about (the specifics of) fungal breeding.

Some topics to really look at in any text are independent assortment, recombination, F1 vs F2 generations, re-expression of parental phenotypes, the breeders equation, selection pressure, Mendel's square, genotypic and phenotypic ratios, continuous vs discontinuous traits, etc.

If you learn a little bit about each of those topics you will have a good understanding of breeding and genetics.


Awesome link RR!  Snake venom to induce hydridization!  Wow, I'd never heard of that!  Now all I need is to get my hands on a rattlesnake!  Luckily I already actually probably might have a source!


-FF

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: fastfred]
    #6175689 - 10/16/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Or, do what I did and get it already milked, purified, and powdered, ready to use. It's a few times the street price of cocaine, so have your bank account stuffed when you order. You also get to go through a screening process where at least three different law enforcement agencies have to clear you to make the purchase. It helps to have a certified lab. Because of the lethal toxicity, they won't ship to a residence.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6177372 - 10/17/06 02:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Naw... If I'm going to pay the street price of cocaine or more, it's probably going to be for some F'in cocaine!

I have a friend that keeps a couple species of poisonous snakes. He has over a dozen snakes, so I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't have a rattler or two. I wonder if any other types of snake venom would work?


-FF

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OfflinemyCo_psyCo
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Re: Diverse mushroom species [Re: fastfred]
    #6178276 - 10/17/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

btw thank you fred for the link, idk if im ready for something like that yet but when i am ill definatly keep it in mind :cool:


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