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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Unable to Trip Anymore 
#617405 - 04/24/02 01:37 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have never had a bad trip on mushrooms (though I ODed 20 years ago on tainted hashish which nearly killed me! - so that fearful memory is always with me), yet a recent minor excursion (2.5g) into the fungal fugue, revealed to me that my tripping days are completely over.
I didn't go deep at all, not even a visual or auditory distortion, but every cell in my body screamed for the journey to stop. It was not panic or freaking out, but more like my being was saying loud and clear that this is not my way. Whether my psyche has changed or my "spirit" is telling me to return to the yogic path, I do not know.
I am not saddened or disappointed. Perhaps it is middle-age or just the dropping away of something no longer useful to me. I just know that this particular door has been closed gently, but firmly.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 AbstractSoul
member
Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 172
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617416 - 04/24/02 01:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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but is the door locked? if so, maybe one day you will find the key...
will you continue to grow?
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house is a spiritual thing
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617418 - 04/24/02 02:00 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe the mushrooms saw your inability to think outside the lines of logic and absolute refusal to, and so they rejected themselves inside your body
Mushrooms are a very spiritual thing.
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617420 - 04/24/02 02:03 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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You haven't turned 'born again' have you?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617422 - 04/24/02 02:04 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Could be the Insectoids didn't want me to come over and fuck with them in their playground 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617425 - 04/24/02 02:05 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sacred even. If one rejects all notions of a spiritual world outside the rules of logic and science, where the mushroom consciousness exists.. it is no wonder your body reacted the way it did. The mushrooms tried to impart their wisdom and you would have nothing to do with it because it wasn't logical enough.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617427 - 04/24/02 02:07 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I used to be all fucked on drugs; now I am all fucked up on the Lord!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617430 - 04/24/02 02:11 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I only posted this so that you could have a field day with me and work out all your frustrations. Get it all off your chest and you will feel much better. I can handle being the "whipping boy of the hour".
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617444 - 04/24/02 02:30 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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This has nothing to do with my frustrations or your wanting to be a whipping boy so badly. This is about your inability to accept any other view than one that agrees with your own very rigid stance. The mushroom requires a great deal of flexibility in the avenue of consciousness, and of course your body will reject it when it is trying so hardly to defend its version of reality after taking a mushroom whose sole purpose is to expand that view of reality. There are some things that you need to let go, just let it go.
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617447 - 04/24/02 02:34 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Welcome to true enlightenment, brother Swami. You have passed the threshold.
The next step will be mastering the meditation principles of T'plana-Hath. Please remember her wise counsel which will serve our species on our next evolutionary step away from the current abyss of internecine conflicts based on blind acceptance and blind obedience, "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide."
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Anonymous
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617451 - 04/24/02 02:40 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am only trying to give you some good advice, as you so often do with others around here. Unless you were lying about this experience just to get a rise out of me or someone else (which I highly doubt), then I feel you are looking for an answer as to why something like this would have occured. I have seen very similar things happen to several people, and they all shared a common trait. The steadfast and stubborn holding onto of their precious logic. Obviously your body rejected the mushrooms. This either means the mushroom did not want to have anything to do with such an unwavering thought process, or you rejected the mushroom's attempt to help you see that all things are not logic and science. I am leaning more towards the latter. There is nothing logical or rational about a mushroom trip. It thrives on creative abstract thinking, and the realm of the spiritual. Hallucinations that the mushrooms bring are certainly not explained by science. There is a lesson in all of this.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617461 - 04/24/02 02:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami, check out my post in "mush and the spirit". Dont worry, i have spent my fair share of time in the fetal position. lol 
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Catalysis]
#617468 - 04/24/02 03:00 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I just did. The feeling you descibed is exactly the same!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617474 - 04/24/02 03:06 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have seen very similar things happen to several people, and they all shared a common trait. The steadfast and stubborn holding onto of their precious logic.
Could be, except that I have been logical most of my life. Probably more of the fact that I have been avoiding dealing with major issues in my life and this was another escape attempt.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: ]
#617476 - 04/24/02 03:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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This has nothing to do with my frustrations ...
Didn't you know that I only tease the people that I love?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Help on the Way
Slipknot420
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 2,893
Loc: Another World
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617480 - 04/24/02 03:12 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can't eat mushrooms anymore either
i just can't see the point anymore
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 *Divine Moments of Truth*
"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon
"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead
"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Care to elaborate? What did you get from them in the past that you no longer find useful / enjoyable?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617521 - 04/24/02 03:53 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmm...fascinating captain...could be you've got a bit more steadfast in your views as you've aged tho...perhaps at 2.5 grams your ego was still able to function and tried to fight off the shrooms.
Did you go into it with any purpose in mind? Or was it simply to get high?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617537 - 04/24/02 04:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have found intelligent and logical thinking to be crucial in my personal experimentation, although it must be applied in a rather unconventional manner.
I have had some success by trying to seperate and analyze each aspect of my thoughts and how they interact. This is sometimes done by associating different aspects of thinkning with external objects or patterns and then trying to objectively meditate upon them. The idea being that after you have put your thought process into perspective, you now have a greater overall control of the mind and this way it becomes easier to use thoughts according to your will (which can sometimes be difficult on mush). but then again there are many other methods.
And i cant stress enough the importance of purposeful movement while tripping.
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617544 - 04/24/02 04:15 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami, can you give a logical proof that you had a bad experience? You say this but is there any scientific evidence that it was so? If you cannot provide a logical proof, we cannot believe your report.
You say "every cell screamed". Scientifically cells have no vocal chords and therefore cannot scream. You must have been mistaken.
You mention your psyche or your spirit - please provide logical evidence for these things.
You say a door has been closed? Once again, we need more logical proof of this. In what way has a "door" been closed?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (04/24/02 04:19 PM)
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Xlea321]
#617573 - 04/24/02 04:45 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I, too, know what you are talking about. Although I have not yet reached a state where the shroom does nothing for me, my usage has tapered substantially (I think it has been a few months since my last trip... just thought of an interesting dialog, I'll save it for later though).
A little background...
I didn't first start tripping until I was 18 (summer, freshman year of college). It was more of a rebellious act- I didn't know where I was going for sure in life and it was a sort of desperate destructive act...
Which brings up...
I had also been told by my parents since I was in the 4th grade to stay away from "little paper stamps" (acid... duh) because I was allergic to the drug on them. This whole "allergy" myth came about because I had a mole removed (my mother was a hypochondriac- "It's cancer!! Oh God!!"). They doctors used Ketalar (aka Ketamine) as an anesthetic (in addition to something else). Apparently my parents misunderstood what the doctor had said and they thought that I had a severe allergic reaction or some crap. Later, just before my first trip.. the night of, I looked at my medical records to see exactly what happened. I forget the actual wording, but basically I was somewhat sensitive (not allergic) to the drug and I was treated with plain ol' ordinary OXYGEN. I was a little pissed when I found out, because I had tons of opportunities in high school to try LSD (my buddy was a frickin' dealer). Maybe I was better off taking it later, yeah, probably.
So I tripped. It was beautiful (kinda weak looking back on it, but at the time... superb). The next day I was an emotional wreck. The next few months I took acid every weekend (around the same people, same location for the most part... basically, the same set and setting). I tripped ten times in close succession... I learned alot about myself.
Then I wanted to get away from the drug buying/selling scene... it always made me feel uncomfortable. I turned to shrooms. I first tried growing them... then I found the fields... then I grew some again and hit the fields every summer anyways... then I found 5-meo-dipt... ran out, but didn't care cause I still had shrooms.... Now I'm up to present.
I tripped around 40 times (I have it written down- # times per drug- but I don't feel like looking for my journal). I think I started out tripping once every week, then it went to once every two weeks (strong doses kept me happy at the two week interval), then it went to once a month, then once every two months, then once every three months, now I think it has been close to five months (I'm due for a healthy dose real soon)...
But the reason for why the intervals between trips is getting longer is because the whole psychedelic experience was becoming less significant (not that my drug tolerance was increasing, the drug just didn't really change my mindset all that much).
I look at it this way...
When you have a somewhat rigid system and you throw in a shitload of randomness, the system is totally overwhelmed and the change the ensues is quite significant. As this rigid system is bombarded, it adapts...
After so many sessions of random bombardment and adaptation, the system is highly adaptable. So now, when the system is bombarded, there is little change, because the system can adapt so quickly.
This is why I let so much time pass between trips. I wait until my system has enough rigidity or fragmentation so as to not waste my time bombarding it.
BTW, I have an interesting theory of REM sleep, well, it's how I often look at it... basically our brains are defragmenting during REM, that's why our dreams are so fucked up (and also maybe why we can't remember them... severed connections- remember, our brain is a parallel distributed processor).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Tao_Shin_Li
newbie
Registered: 10/27/01
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617595 - 04/24/02 05:00 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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that sound like shroomeisms analogy of brains being like computer as found in this thread http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum11&Number=611408&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart= i think it make good sense of computer as brain and backwards.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617605 - 04/24/02 05:14 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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(I think it has been a few months since my last trip... just thought of an interesting dialog, I'll save it for later though).
You remind of going to Catholic confession as a youth. "Father, it has been 3 months since my last trip..." Heh heh.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Tao_Shin_Li]
#617606 - 04/24/02 05:15 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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A computer is a closed system.
I posit that the brain is not.
That analogy is over 100 years old (Charles Babbage's Analytical Engine, 1830s I think).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617608 - 04/24/02 05:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Father, it has been 3 months since my last trip..."
That was the dialog!!!!
You must have your shortwave set to the same frequency.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617616 - 04/24/02 05:29 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Please don't tell anyone that I am psychic, else it will be difficult to retain my hard-nosed skeptic reputation.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Swami]
#617648 - 04/24/02 05:57 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think you have to worry about that... reputations (perceptions?) seem to never change in here.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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MentalHygene
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617692 - 04/24/02 06:56 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami: I feel the same way. I made a post a few months back entitled; DONE WITH MUSHROOMS?
Sclorch: Computers are no longer a closed system. They get input every single day just as our brains do.
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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: MentalHygene]
#617700 - 04/24/02 07:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's not what I mean by closed system...
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617787 - 04/24/02 09:29 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think you have to worry about that... reputations (perceptions?) seem to never change in here.
True. With all the posting about no past or future, just the present moment; there is a great deal of emotionalism (baggage) that some "NOW" proponents carry forward into each new discussion.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MentalHygene
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#617845 - 04/24/02 10:41 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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What did you mean?
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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"
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JustFootsteps
newbie
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 Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: Sclorch]
#618033 - 04/25/02 03:03 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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i've had a few periods where my psych use was pretty frequent... each ended with my becoming stuck in the Beat for a while, acting crazy and messing up relationships because i couldn't interact calmly with the square world. i'm a firm believer in aldous huxley's suggestion that you trip twice a year, and in terrance mckenna's that you take a heroic dose as nothing less will clear out the clutter in the third eye and get you chuggin'. i only need to remember the Seed; a nibble's enough, gobblin' is greed. hehe that sucked
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in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: Unable to Trip Anymore [Re: MentalHygene]
#618236 - 04/25/02 09:31 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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MentalHygene-
Well, it isn't a short conversation or explanation.
Basically, philosophers interested in the mind are also interested in Artificial Intelligence (I find this field quite fascinating as well). Most of these philosophers agree that the human mind is a Parallel Distributed Processor (information is not localized, it is distributed across the whole)... I like this idea. They also tend to think that the brain is a deterministic system, which is where we part ways. Most of the arguments for determinism center on direct comparison of the human brain to a computer (not the kind I'm typing on... a PDP computer). (Goddamn this is gonna take forever...)
I tell you what, if you really want to duke it out on this matter, I can't really explain 500 pages in a short post (you wouldn't want to read it that way either). So, check out these books:
"The Mind's I" by Douglas R. Hofstadter (author of Godel, Escher, Bach...)
"The Philosophy of Artificial Intelligence" by Margaret A. Boden
"Artificial Intelligence" by Jack Copeland
Try the Hofstadter first (he's more entertaining).
They are all determinists, unfortunately. I see determinism as the easy way out... thinking for myself seems too real to just chalk it up to "illusion". So, read up on AI (it isn't really about building robots... it's more about learning about how thoughts and brains work- it is not hard reading).
I'm really not side-stepping your question. The computer is a system of logic gates... the brain is loosely similar to this, but it is capable of pattern recognition. Computers can only recognize the patterns they were programmed to recognize (the driving force behind thinking is not present in a computer either)... they are not nearly as adaptable (as humans) in environments that we easily negotiate everyday. This is why computers are closed systems (and why we are not).
Once you get into this field, you realize how much we take for granted (even simple thinking like "if I jump off this building, I'll die. I don't want to jump off this building.").
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Strain? [Re: Sclorch]
#621962 - 04/29/02 03:19 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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It was recently mentioned to me that my high anxiety may have been due to the strain of mushroom, rather than my attitude. I know that this has been much discussed elsewhere, but worth re-opening the case.
On this particular occasion, I had a mix, but they were mostly deformed popcorn-like Kai Somais from Thailand.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LOBO
Vagabond
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Re: Strain? [Re: Swami]
#622038 - 04/29/02 07:15 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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There could be several reasons.
One is that maybe you were doing it to often, and you need to take a brake.
The other one could be the setting, were do you usually do it?
And yes it could be that for now you don't need it, just fallow what your body says.
But if you wana give it another try I will recommend taking it with Syrian rue, it works very good for me.
Good luck
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Cow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher
Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
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Re: Strain? [Re: LOBO]
#622040 - 04/29/02 07:22 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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i'm not sure of the direct source of the information, but a wise traveler told me a story. Back in the 60s, someone went around with alot of acid and upon giving a shaman/monk a rather large dose of the LSD, the shaman replied. 'I get much higher off of meditation. The drugs have no effect.'
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_______________________________________
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JustFootsteps
newbie
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super-cool...
i had a meditation teacher who (i'm told by a fellow student) once took acid from Tim Leary himself. she reported no effect. *grin* that must be an interesting place to keep your brain
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in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Strain? [Re: LOBO]
#622079 - 04/29/02 08:55 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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One is that maybe you were doing it to often, and you need to take a brake.
The other one could be the setting, were do you usually do it?
4 times in 20 years is probably not too frequently.
The other one could be the setting, were do you usually do it?
Home alone with my keyboards and no possible disturbances is as safe an environment as one could get.
And yes it could be that for now you don't need it, just fallow what your body says.
Could be...
But if you wana give it another try I will recommend taking it with Syrian rue, it works very good for me.
Don't doubt your experience, but have also read of negative experiences with rue on Erowid.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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It was Ram Daas/Richard Alpert. Not sure whether any of it was true - he said a holy man materialised in front of him and he gave the guru LSD and he just sat there "twinkling", then he mysteriously vanished into the air and was never seen again.
Sounds like horseshit to me.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Strain? [Re: Swami]
#622197 - 04/29/02 11:48 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Swami, i dont know if you have tried this but i used to have trouble altering my consiousness on shrroms and this has helped alot.
Try eating only one or two small shrooms and wait about 45-60min until you can feel the slight effect. then eat as you normally would.
i have found that the sudden, unwilled impact of an experiance can be so confusing as to blind one from the higher possibilities of the shroom. Being able to ease into it has helped me considerably in transcending normal conciousess.
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Edited by Catalysis (04/29/02 11:51 AM)
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