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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6192006 - 10/20/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your God? YOU have your very own God? Cool. :cool:

Do you smoke after you talk with God? :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6192148 - 10/20/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Do you smoke after you talk with God? :grin:




Or beforehand? :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6192161 - 10/20/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do you smoke after you talk with God?

I don't know, baby, I never looked!
--Austin Powers

:grin:

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6196550 - 10/22/06 03:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not trying to convince anyone that their "path" is wrong. I'm trying to convince people that all paths are all wrong.

Peheheh. I dunno.

I guess its more like trying to convince myself that there is more to it than this. If we're alone, I see no point in living the lives we live. Collectively.

The whole "path" thing seems overly selfish to me. Its hard to accept my tiny insignificant life to be of purpose, to be mapped out by higher forces, when it is up to no good whatsoever.

Personally, I'm to a certain extent satisfied with my own life, in comparison to many other less fortunate souls. But seeing as we're supposed to be tricked into having free will, the power of intention, positive thinking, and all that sheit, I think we (including me) can do better.

If there really is a God, it's no wonder it's disappointed. If there isn't a God, its our responsibility to be disappointed.

No matter what, God will obviously do jack shit about starving africans, or slaughtered tibetans or homeless children or <insert terrible fate here>. Perhaps we're supposed to?

I think we should live as it were no God, and as life was our responsibility. And not just my life, my life and my situations has worked out just fine. But my life could work out even better if we worked out others as well.

I think that the mere idea of a happy population with enough food to survive, and the ability to think about alternative ways to live(not struggling for food/work/pay/rent/drugs/stuff, but rather striving for a real life in harmony with ourselves)...would make me a million times happier.

God won't cut it anymore. Unless its his will that 90% of the planet just dies and leaves the bits and pieces to the survivors. Could be.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: slaphappy]
    #6197105 - 10/22/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Its hard to accept my tiny insignificant life to be of purpose,

Then you don't understand what you are. You are no more or no less important than anything else. Not insignificant, and no one knows IMO anything about higher forces or powers so that doesn't come into play here. A path is something you choose to do with your time here. It is of no importance to anyone but you.  So.. all paths are right/equal and not important. Get it? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/22/06 10:38 AM)

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6197158 - 10/22/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A path is something you choose to do with your time here. It is of no importance to anyone but you. So.. all paths are right and not important. Get it?




Not all paths are a good choice. For example, while walking yesterday I got off the obvious trail into what would have been a short cut and appeared to be a trail at first. I knew I would be turning around shortly but kept going a while at least until trail disappeared into poison oak.

Sure, I could have kept going across the poison oak, gotten it all over my shoes and pants and later on my skin and paid the price. But why?

I didn't choose the path less traveled on, and that made all the difference...

In a larger sense when we take "poison oak paths" we can pay the price with more than itching.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6197181 - 10/22/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You never know. Had you taken that path you might have gotten a bad case of poison oak and found a paper bag with $10,000 dollars in it.

Then the mafia might have hunted you down and killed you, saving you from the most painful death at the hands of some insanely painful disease etc.

All the experiences in our life are good in the sense that we are here to learn and they are learning experiences. You can judge them good or bad but IMO you will never really know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/22/06 11:01 AM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6197537 - 10/22/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no god no peace, know god know peace


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Basilides]
    #6197550 - 10/22/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Speak for yourself silly boy. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6197568 - 10/22/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's very polarized


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Basilides]
    #6197580 - 10/22/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

As in sunglasses.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6197596 - 10/22/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Gnosis pierces the sun  :cool:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: the god delusion [Re: daytripper23]
    #6201240 - 10/23/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
first of all I mean we live in a world where all you can REALLY sure in is what you feel. Based on your sensations. Who knows if the world you see really even exhists... :smirk:

I mean with the subjective you rely only on your senses and emotions. You just feel it.

With the objective your relying on more than one opinion of a sensation. In that case These sensations must be translated to language. Youve gone from the subjective, which is uncorrupted, to a mere symbol to symbol exchange. That does not ever do complete justice to what one actually feels.

o yea and that is also why science is bunk :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2:




First and foremost, the subjective is based upon sensations which are not infallible.  Secondly, your feeble attempts at explaining the background processes of cognition leave a great deal of confusion as to whether you allow for man to make any assertions at all.

Science is bunk?  Is that a joke?  Do we really need to take away your computer, phone line, pressure cooker, man-made glass jars, etc?


Quote:

porcupine said:
absense of evidence isn't evidence of absense.



And what does this have to do with any of what has been communicated in this thread?  Specifically people have asserted it is impossible to deny the existence of a god.  What is not impossible, however, is to assert that no individual is capable of rationally supporting their belief and must therefore have their logical foundations for all other actions questioned.  If an individual is willing to live a duplicitous life of both logic and non-logic (or rather a life whereby they think logically and simultaneously utilize their logic to delude themselves it is impossible to think without logic), then their logic must be called into question.


Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't think it's very important at all. It gets much too much discussion IMO.

You may be thinking something can be resolved in these discussions of God. :wink:



I'd suggest the subject matter is an important one for the same reason(s) Daniel Dennett apparently does: namely that the only way to shine the light of truth on the bleak landscape of religion is to explore it.  This has to be done even if it involves walking every inch of the landscape w/ a candle in one hand whilst making a phone call to a cartographer.

For what it is worth, in a recently viewed documentary on Patrick Henry College,  a point is made to demonstrate how the future Christian politicians being trained there are made to thoroughly defend and understand the secular view to better understand any existing flaws.  Exploration of religion by secularists, brights, atheists, or whathaveyou could very succinctly take the same form.

The only dangers we face are overextending our certainty and having our freedoms challenged.  Oh, and going crazy in a world of people who refuse to stop asserting that which they have no stated cause to assert.


Quote:

shamanamba said:
Did anybody notice the very last sentence he said??? "I don't beleive we were put here to be comfortable." So... Does beleive we were put here... Just not to be comfortable... But with an otherwise intended purpose... To me, that last sentence just cancelled out everything he had said prior to it. :rolleyes:



While I agree it was an unfortuante choice of words given his intended audience of quasi-theists who are likely seeking answers to empty questions (why am I here?) and thus susceptible to misinterpreting him, I'd suggest that there is a clearer interpretation of Dawkins' closing statement.  Simply, all of existence puts us exactly where we are every moment.  While one can eliminate any assertion of having been put anywhere by an invisible deity (because of a lack of reason to assert such an act), one can clearly discern how the basic processes of nature progressively put us where we are.

While I grant this is my own interpretation, I do not think it is particularly contradictory of what Dawkins' own likely would be if asked.  Given the context of his prior work, specifically around the concept of us being incidental vehicles for the propulsion of our genes, he might likely have extended the idea to one of us being put here by our genes as a means of their own self-survival.

And finally, there is the alternate suggestion my friend made regarding the comment: he doesn't actually assert that we are put here, only that he doesn't believe we are put here to be comfortable.  Taken at face value there is no reason to separate the idea of being put here from being put here to be comfortable.

Edited by cloudtop (10/23/06 11:12 AM)

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6202219 - 10/23/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Your God? YOU have your very own God? Cool. :cool:

Do you smoke after you talk with God? :grin:




Do i have my own God? not exactly. God is all pervasive and all loving. He is my God, your God, and everyone's God. But my belief is that each of us is also endowed with a personal spark that is part and parcel of that overarching divinity. This spark of divinity in the heart is what i try to remain in constant communication with, for from it flows all in myself that i consider worthy and desirable.

Do i smoke after i talk to God? My goal is to talk to God before, during and after i smoke, and to make devotional service to my sustaining God central to all my activities, be it simply mopping the floor or making love to my partner.

Only by subsuming all our activities into worshipfull devotion can the true fragrance and flavor of life be experienced.

This is the ancient promise of all mystics: life eternal and abundant.

Faithfull in this promise, one can indeed sleep easy :wink:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6202236 - 10/23/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How do YOU know he's MY God? Am I subject to your thoughts and beliefs?

Don't think so. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6202275 - 10/23/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How do YOU know he's MY God? Am I subject to your thoughts and beliefs?

Don't think so. :wink:




When i say he is your god, i do not mean to say that at this point in your eternal journey you are presently aware of him or engaging with him through direct devotion. I am simply expressing my own faith belief that all things are of God, and that God tends to all his children with eternal unconditional love, regardless of if they recognize his existance.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

Edited by Moonshoe (10/23/06 03:49 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6202289 - 10/23/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That's exactly the same thing.  :grin: It's just a belief program. We all have them. :wink: Not necessarily true or not, just belief programs. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Icelander]
    #6202340 - 10/23/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's exactly the same thing.  :grin: It's just a belief program. We all have them. :wink: Not necessarily true or not, just belief programs. :mushroom2:




"its just a belief program"

yes... i am sharing my beliefs.

"we all have them"

absolutely.

"not nescessarily true or not..."

Indeed.

And yet even in the face of mystery, we may find community.

:heart:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: the god delusion [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6202548 - 10/23/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
When i say he is your god, i do not mean to say that at this point in your eternal journey you are presently aware of him or engaging with him through direct devotion.


Our journey is not eternal -- we have finite lifespans just as all known living creatures do and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest otherwise. Further, to be devoted to a subject is not to engage it. Engagement would require a level of interaction which is impossible without reverting to a claim that god is quantifiably discernable.


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: the god delusion [Re: cloudtop]
    #6202670 - 10/23/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

There are reasons to believe that we outlast this body, and there are reasons to believe that we do not.

Which reasons command your belief?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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