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Offlinefireworks_godS
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We Demand Nothing Of The Sea
    #6164268 - 10/12/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I was visiting some family recently, and my family is planning on, eventually, getting a sailboat and living off of the sea. It would only be natural, then, that there would be a sailing magazine sitting around on a table.

I saw an advertisement for a particular sailboat that was rather intriguing. It went like this -

Quote:


We demand nothing of the sea.
Thus, we demand everything from our craft.






This sticks out to me because the philosophy represented by such an expression is one that I frequently find myself observing and contemplating. It makes a statement that is most certainly based in the history of centuries of human beings who explored the oceans - one cannot hold any expectations of how the ocean is to behave. Storms will rise and whales and giant squid will prevail and human craft of wood and metal will sink to the deep bottom. One was at the mercy of the winds. There was no sense in demanding anything of the sea because the sea would unveil in the manner in which it did, regardless.

And, yet, we have found ourselves to be successful at navigating the sea and proliferating the interaction of different cultures and the proliferation of trade, education, and civilization that result. We have done this by working with what we have directly in our environment and observing how nature chooses to exist so that we can plan accordingly. We learn to realize the mechanisms responsible for phenomenon and to utilize that understanding to further navigate through the phenomenon itself, reality, to our favor.

Do we let the sea carry itself out and roll our dice for us, or do we make the conscious choice to focus within ourselves, to become aware of the nature of the self, and to choose to initiate a conscious process of transformation, in order to be more capable of navigating reality - in effect, creating one's own path and fully living one's life? I'd think that the latter seems more preferable. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6164288 - 10/12/06 11:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

calm seas never made a good captain.....

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6164321 - 10/12/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Certainly not. I think that it is through interacting with reality that we gain our understanding of reality - reality is known to us as we have perceived it to be, and, in each moment, we perceive more of reality, and thus have a greater understanding of what it is.

The more variety we have in our experiences, the more opportunities we have to experience more aspects of reality, the more we begin to understand reality for what it is, and therefore the more we are capable of navigating reality. Calm seas don't offer much of an opportunity for transformation. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6164610 - 10/13/06 01:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)


Quote:


Calm seas don't offer much of an opportunity for transformation.





It offers an opportunity to learn how to swim.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Invisibledblaney
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Posts: 7,894
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6164940 - 10/13/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

become aware of the nature of the self, and to choose to initiate a conscious process of transformation, in order to be more capable of navigating reality




Here's my concern with this: if you try to transform yourself to better fit the nature of the self/reality/Tao, then you're still operating from the vantage point of the limited and isolated I. Whereas if you simply stop trying altogether and drop the activity of the limited ego, then you will naturally follow the Way of reality/the self.

This reminds me of the disagreement between Confucians and Taoists. Confucians think that humans have the responsibility to engineer and refine society and ourselves to fit the Tao, whereas Taoists think that human nature is harmonious just the way it is.

I do tend to think that human nature is harmonious just the way it is, with all its angels and demons.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6165030 - 10/13/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Here's my concern with this: if you try to transform yourself to better fit the nature of the self/reality/Tao, then you're still operating from the vantage point of the limited and isolated I. Whereas if you simply stop trying altogether and drop the activity of the limited ego, then you will naturally follow the Way of reality/the self.




The choice to initiate the conscious process of transformation that I referred to is, ultimately, the act of becoming aware. The choice is to be aware.

The transformation itself is not something that one tries in order to better fit the nature of reality, but rather the choice to become aware subsequently causes one to change with reality. The more one is aware, the more one is directly perceiving the sensory information being collected in the moment. The transformation is a natural result - the abstract sense of one's identity begins to dissolve as one realizes reality for what it presents itself to be, in this moment.

Quote:


This reminds me of the disagreement between Confucians and Taoists. Confucians think that humans have the responsibility to engineer and refine society and ourselves to fit the Tao, whereas Taoists think that human nature is harmonious just the way it is.




I think what I am referring to is something along the lines of reaization of the harmonious nature of reality (or Tao, or whatever), and thus choosing one's actions within reality as a more appropriate response to reality. :grin:

Quote:


I do tend to think that human nature is harmonious just the way it is, with all its angels and demons.




Perhaps, yet I think that, with more awareness, our nature will transform to higher levels of existance that we cannot now realize. We might be in balance, as all aspects of reality interact with each other in each moment and thus everything is in its place in the mesh network, but that which is being networked is free to change and to develop in ways that will add dimensions to it. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6165525 - 10/13/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rather the choice to become aware subsequently causes one to change with reality




By this line of thinking, what would be the impetus or reason someone would want to become more aware?

Quote:

thus choosing one's actions within reality as a more appropriate response to reality




Is it possible that one's interpretation of reality could be faulty or incomplete and thus one's actions would in fact NOT be an appropriate response to reality? For instance, what if one chooses to bring more awareness to their conception of reality (be it some external supernatural being or some other more abstracted concept)? So they would choose their actions more in response to their interpretation of reality. Surely not everyone interprets reality in the same way, so how do you deal with this?

Quote:

that, with more awareness, our nature will transform to higher levels of existance that we cannot now realize




Is this your way of saying that with more awareness we will be more aware of reality? Or are you suggesting that we will somehow ascend to some higher dimension? Please clarify this assertion.

Quote:

everything is in its place in the mesh network, but that which is being networked is free to change and to develop in ways that will add dimensions to it.




I disagree. Not everything is free to change and to develop. A lightbulb is not free to change and develop because it lacks sentience. Humans and some other animals are free to change and evolve or devolve, but not everything. :smirk: :wink:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6165862 - 10/13/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
By this line of thinking, what would be the impetus or reason someone would want to become more aware?




To more fully realize reality for what it is. As we are aspects of reality, this would be akin to reality being interested in knowing itself, which is an interesting thought. :wink:

Ultimately, though, the reason would be the nature of being phenomenon within reality. Its a process, and, for some reason, the process carries itself out - that "motion" would be the reason. :grin:

Quote:


Is it possible that one's interpretation of reality could be faulty or incomplete and thus one's actions would in fact NOT be an appropriate response to reality? For instance, what if one chooses to bring more awareness to their conception of reality (be it some external supernatural being or some other more abstracted concept)? So they would choose their actions more in response to their interpretation of reality. Surely not everyone interprets reality in the same way, so how do you deal with this?




Interpretation of reality is one thing, direct perception is another. Reality is known to us as the sensory data that we collect from our interaction with reality. Interpretation itself is not evident within reality, yet it can be based upon it. The act to become more aware is chosen because it iwll, in effect, ensure that one's interpretation of reality is more fully based in one's direct perception of reality.

Quote:


Is this your way of saying that with more awareness we will be more aware of reality? Or are you suggesting that we will somehow ascend to some higher dimension? Please clarify this assertion.




I think that I was suggesting that the more we become aware of reality, the more signfigance and meaning our experience of reality will have. Thus, our existance itself evolves, becomes more encompassing, transforms in ways we could not now conceptualize. :grin:

Quote:


I disagree. Not everything is free to change and to develop. A lightbulb is not free to change and develop because it lacks sentience. Humans and some other animals are free to change and evolve or devolve, but not everything. :smirk: :wink:




Nature unfolds as it does. A lightbulb might not be capable of making a decision to change form, but yet the forms that we project onto aspects of reality will change and evolve as the result of natural processes. A river carries away sediment. The winds influence our life. Reality progresses. :smirk:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6165977 - 10/13/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Fireworks_God said:
Quote:

rather the choice to become aware subsequently causes one to change with reality




Dblaney said:
Quote:


By this line of thinking, what would be the impetus or reason someone would want to become more aware?




Not sure if FWG would agree, but the way I see it becoming aware means detaching from the egoic mind and all the imagined suffering that comes along with it. So in other words, the reason someone would want to become more aware is to escape the mind and enter a state of blissfulness. In this state you not only improve your quality of life and consciousness in the moment, but you also might improve someone else's quality of life by setting such an example. Just as they say *edited* misery loves company, so too does love spread.

Fireworks_God said:
Quote:

thus choosing one's actions within reality as a more appropriate response to reality




Dblaney said:
Quote:


Is it possible that one's interpretation of reality could be faulty or incomplete and thus one's actions would in fact NOT be an appropriate response to reality? For instance, what if one chooses to bring more awareness to their conception of reality (be it some external supernatural being or some other more abstracted concept)? So they would choose their actions more in response to their interpretation of reality. Surely not everyone interprets reality in the same way, so how do you deal with this?




Of course you could label one's interpretation of reality as faulty or incomplete. Chance's are no matter what your interpretation of reality is, there will be people that label it one way or the other. When you have risen to a higher state of consciousness you are really just coming totally into the here and the now,and therefore you are past mental labels and other conditioned reactions of the mind.

It does not matter what other people interpret your interpretation of life as, because you are acting from within and the external world is no longer a such a BIG ISSUE. This is not to say you are totally passive in every situation, it simply means you are no longer reacting based on mental conditioning.

Fireworks_God said:
Quote:

that, with more awareness, our nature will transform to higher levels of existance that we cannot now realize




Dblaney said:
Quote:


Is this your way of saying that with more awareness we will be more aware of reality? Or are you suggesting that we will somehow ascend to some higher dimension? Please clarify this assertion.




The message I think FWG is trying to convey in the last quote is that there is much much more to life than we perceive and by reaching higher states of consciousness we will begin to perceive things under the surface of what is conventionally thought of "as reality".

Edited by TacticalBongRip (10/13/06 01:42 PM)

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Invisibledblaney
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Posts: 7,894
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #6166348 - 10/13/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the reason someone would want to become more aware is to escape the mind and enter a state of blissfulness.




What mind is there that can escape the mind?

Quote:

Of course you could label one's interpretation of reality as faulty or incomplete. Chance's are no matter what your interpretation of reality is, there will be people that label it one way or the other.




Would you agree that someone who sees a horse and interprets it as a flying duck might have a faulty interpretation of reality? Clearly there are, in fact, interpretations of reality which aren't true to reality, and as such I would call them faulty interpretations. Do you have a better word? Or do you think something else?

Quote:

When you have risen to a higher state of consciousness you are really just coming totally into the here and the now,and therefore you are past mental labels and other conditioned reactions of the mind.




Were you not in the here and now before?

Quote:

It does not matter what other people interpret your interpretation of life as, because you are acting from within and the external world is no longer a such a BIG ISSUE.




What if you are a megalomaniac who interprets life as a chance for them to exert their will on mankind. For instance, someone like Hitler. I would say it does matter how other people interpret your interpretation, otherwise someone like him would be able to run rampant, no?

Furthermore, I would argue that the division between 'external world' and 'internal world' is 'faulty' ( :wink: ). You are aware of the so-called internal world just as you are of the so-called external world. There are some aspects of the internal world on which your volition can have an effect, just as there are some aspects of the external world on which your volition can have an effect. In light of this, I would say that any perceived division between external world and internal world is illusionary.

Quote:

by reaching higher states of consciousness we will begin to perceive things under the surface of what is conventionally thoAught of "as reality".




As soon as that happens, let me know because that sounds fun!

Welcome to the board, Jedi


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6169143 - 10/14/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TacticalBongRip said:
Quote:

the reason someone would want to become more aware is to escape the mind and enter a state of blissfulness.




dblaney said:
Quote:

What mind is there that can escape the mind?




Underneath the surface of what you probably consider the mind, lies the true self. If you have ever had an intense experience on psychedelics in which you felt your ego fall away then you most likely came into contact with the true self, which is pure consciousness. Psychedelics can give you a glimpse of what it is like to be free from the egoic mind. Once the effects wear off however, the human mind begins to take over again.

This is also why many people meditate and pray, to escape the seemingly never ending flow of thoughts into your consciousness. This is the human condition and I believe one of the greatest challenges for mankind, to rise above the mind, that illusion which separates us. 

TacticalBongRip said:
Quote:

Of course you could label one's interpretation of reality as faulty or incomplete. Chance's are no matter what your interpretation of reality is, there will be people that label it one way or the other.





dblaney said:
Quote:


Would you agree that someone who sees a horse and interprets it as a flying duck might have a faulty interpretation of reality? Clearly there are, in fact, interpretations of reality which aren't true to reality, and as such I would call them faulty interpretations. Do you have a better word? Or do you think something else?




I see what you are getting at, but if I had to call it anything I would call it unconsciousness. You are either fully conscious of the present moment, or you are not conscious and have let the mind take over. When you are in a state of awareness and being, right here right now, you are the like driver behind the wheel of a car - totally in control but not so attached to the idea of being in control. Otherwise, the egoic mind is behind the wheel, unconsciously reacting to external stimulus based on the conditioning you experienced from a young age.



TacticalBongRipsaid:
Quote:

When you have risen to a higher state of consciousness you are really just coming totally into the here and the now,and therefore you are past mental labels and other conditioned reactions of the mind.




Quote:


Were you not in the here and now before?




I was once lost, but now I am found.

TacticalBongRip said:
Quote:

It does not matter what other people interpret your interpretation of life as, because you are acting from within and the external world is no longer a such a BIG ISSUE.




dblaney said:
Quote:


What if you are a megalomaniac who interprets life as a chance for them to exert their will on mankind. For instance, someone like Hitler. I would say it does matter how other people interpret your interpretation, otherwise someone like him would be able to run rampant, no?




Again, I would say someone such as Hitler is just another example of someone unconscious, someone totally identified with the egoic mind. The egoic mind has a dualistic nature to it, which will always lead to suffering. What brings pleasure to the mind, will also bring pain eventually. Like someone addicted to cigarettes, they get those few minutes of pleasure while they are smoking but eventually they will crave another one and when they cannot have that which the mind craves they enter a state of suffering. This is the central flaw of the egoic mind, it ALWAYS wants MORE! It's NEVER enough! When you shed it away, you will see that you have everything you need, right here, right now.

Going back to what you were saying about whether or not it matters how other people interpret your interpretation, I still feel that it is unimportant. What is more important is how you interpret yourself. If you interpret yourself as a fully aware, complete being, you would not identify with the unconsciousness and suffering that people like Hitler spread. If you do not identify with it chances are you won't be part of the problem, but instead part of the solution to stopping the atrocities of mankind.


dblaney said:
Quote:


Furthermore, I would argue that the division between 'external world' and 'internal world' is 'faulty' ( :wink: ). You are aware of the so-called internal world just as you are of the so-called external world. There are some aspects of the internal world on which your volition can have an effect, just as there are some aspects of the external world on which your volition can have an effect. In light of this, I would say that any perceived division between external world and internal world is illusionary.




On a certain level I totally agree with you. We are all one, we are part of the life force of this planet. The variety we see on this plane of existence is just different expression's of this One life force. I would argue that most of what is considered reality is an illusion. However, I believe to find this truth you must go within, not without(to the external). Do not take what I say literally and get hung up on the words. What I am really trying to say when I speak of external/internal is that if you are looking for answers to the most important questions in what people label as "the external world", you won't find them. 

TacticalBongRip said:
Quote:

by reaching higher states of consciousness we will begin to perceive things under the surface of what is conventionally thought of "as reality".




dblaney said:
Quote:


As soon as that happens, let me know because that sounds fun!

Welcome to the board, Jedi




It's happening right now my friend, and that is why I have written this post!  :heart:

Much love,
TacticalBongRip

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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #6170775 - 10/15/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If you have ever had an intense experience on psychedelics in which you felt your ego fall away then you most likely came into contact with the true self, which is pure consciousness.




I agree, there is consciousness (awareness). But there is also the object of awareness. The differentiation you make between subject and object (identifying with awareness) is fairly arbitrary, as neither would exist without the other, so why say that only one side of the coin is the 'true self'? Do you also say that the head of a coin is the 'true' side of the coin?

Quote:

You are either fully conscious of the present moment, or you are not conscious and have let the mind take over.




This view strikes me as being very black and white. You're either awake or you're asleep. Can one not be in a state of awakening?

Quote:

The egoic mind has a dualistic nature to it




Sorta like the mind that sees a distinction between the egoic mind and the original mind :grin:

Quote:

Going back to what you were saying about whether or not it matters how other people interpret your interpretation, I still feel that it is unimportant.




I feel that this line of thinking leads to a very dangerous passivity. If it's unimportant how others interpret and act, then why would it matter if people go around killing and hurting people? Why would it matter if people go around creating tremendous amounts of suffering?

Quote:

If you do not identify with it chances are you won't be part of the problem, but instead part of the solution to stopping the atrocities of mankind.




This may be well and true, but how would you go about stopping the atrocities if you don't care about others' interpretations and actions?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6170852 - 10/15/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

You are either fully conscious of the present moment, or you are not conscious and have let the mind take over.




This view strikes me as being very black and white. You're either awake or you're asleep. Can one not be in a state of awakening?




When one is out of the present moment, the mind is left to dream, just as you dream at night time. Within that dream, typically your a quiet observer of "you"  and one can not control what they are doing, rather like watching a movie. Well this is a metaphor for a person who is sleeping within themselves, the moment of awakening is realizing your dreaming and becoming "self aware". The true free will comes in to play....Waking up to your true nature is quite a sudden transition yet its profound bliss is there for long enough to be embraced.



Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

The egoic mind has a dualistic nature to it




Sorta like the mind that sees a distinction between the egoic mind and the original mind :grin:





During the burst of psychedelic transcendence into the higher realms of cosmic consciousness, the two hemispheres of your brain that cause the duality perception, unite and become one. Your mind becomes pure, free from egotistical programming and attachments.....This crystal clear mind state is also the realm of the "meta-programmer".



Peace  :heart:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

Edited by Amethyst (10/15/06 03:19 AM)

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: Amethyst]
    #6171350 - 10/15/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

When one is out of the present moment, the mind is left to dream, just as you dream at night time. Within that dream, typically your a quiet observer of "you" and one can not control what they are doing, rather like watching a movie. Well this is a metaphor for a person who is sleeping within themselves, the moment of awakening is realizing your dreaming and becoming "self aware". The true free will comes in to play....Waking up to your true nature is quite a sudden transition yet its profound bliss is there for long enough to be embraced.




I understand the idea of awakening, but I think it's a faulty analogy. I believe that everyone is Buddha-nature, not everyone has Buddha-nature, everyone and everything is Buddha-nature, but yet is ignorant of this. By the sleeping analogy, this would mean that everyone is awake, yet doesn't realize that they are awake.

Quote:

During the burst of psychedelic transcendence into the higher realms of cosmic consciousness, the two hemispheres of your brain that cause the duality perception, unite and become one.




That sounds pretty neat, do you have a source or data to support this claim?

Namaste


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6173682 - 10/15/06 10:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:

That sounds pretty neat, do you have a source or data to support this claim?

Namaste




Well not sure if there is any hard evidence of it, due to the complexity of the brain, and lack of study on peoples brains when they are in a state of higher consciousness during a "spiritual" experience. Tho physically I understand the corpus callosum that unites the two hemispheres of the brain works alot more effectively to create the ultimate perception of "one-ness".


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: Amethyst]
    #6174067 - 10/16/06 01:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So much talk, so little action.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6174073 - 10/16/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

We demand nothing of the sea.
Thus, we demand everything from our craft.







By the way, I really dig that metaphor Fireworks_god thanks for sharing.

The way I read that quote is that the sea represents the very vast and complex changing reality of life that is totally out of our personal control, yet is in the hands of mother nature. Our heart is our craft that we sail through the sea where ever our dreams takes us, (free will) and our mind is the captain. Who is forever learning to sail in harmony with the ocean over the horizon and beyond.

ahh I dunno, thats my thought anyway :smile:  :heart:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: Amethyst]
    #6174079 - 10/16/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think we should learn how to swim when the ocean is calm, so that we are better able to fend ourselves when our ships go down.


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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: dblaney]
    #6174199 - 10/16/06 03:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Tacticalbongrip said:
Quote:

If you have ever had an intense experience on psychedelics in which you felt your ego fall away then you most likely came into contact with the true self, which is pure consciousness.




Quote:

dblaney said:
I agree, there is consciousness (awareness). But there is also the object of awareness. The differentiation you make between subject and object (identifying with awareness) is fairly arbitrary, as neither would exist without the other, so why say that only one side of the coin is the 'true self'? Do you also say that the head of a coin is the 'true' side of the coin?




Saying that consciousness is an "object" holds no meaning to me. Consciousness is just a word that points to a type of experience, and words themselves have limitations to their usefulness when it comes to seeking knowledge. When I speak of a true self, it is because of what I have seen and felt, something that words just can not describe. I have not come to this thread to have a debate, although I get the feeling this may be your intention. I am here to share what I have learned / felt with others, because I believe it is the most sacred and special thing we can hope for in this existence we call life.

Quote:

Tacticalbongrip said:
You are either fully conscious of the present moment, or you are not conscious and have let the mind take over.




Quote:

dblaney said:
This view strikes me as being very black and white. You're either awake or you're asleep. Can one not be in a state of awakening?





There is no substitute for being fully conscious in my opinion. This is why I say you are either fully conscious or you are not. However, I guess you could say one is in a state of awakening if they are seeking to become more fully awake.

They know something more is out there, and they can't quite put their finger on it, but they continue to search. You could say one such as this is still sleeping but because there is a part of that person that seeks more they are on the path to becoming awake, or in an "awakened state" if you want to call it that. To me the words are not important, they are simply signposts  trying to guide you to the truth.

If you feel that the word "awakening" will help you reach your destination, then by all means, use it freely. 

Quote:

TacticalBongRip said:
Quote:

The egoic mind has a dualistic nature to it




Quote:

dblaney said:
Sorta like the mind that sees a distinction between the egoic mind and the original mind :grin:




You are missing the point. By dualistic nature I'm speaking of the connection between pleasure and pain. The egoic mind seeks pleasure constantly (and never gets enough to be satisfied) but a certain type of pleasure and longing the egoic mind creates ulitmately causes pain.  This is why you can hear of Buddhist monks who strive to eliminate all desire, that is - desire for pleasure. My thinking is that they do this in order to rise above the egoic mind, which one almost certainly has if they have overcome their worldly desires.

Quote:

Tacticalbongrip said:
Going back to what you were saying about whether or not it matters how other people interpret your interpretation, I still feel that it is unimportant.




Quote:

dblaney said:
I feel that this line of thinking leads to a very dangerous passivity. If it's unimportant how others interpret and act, then why would it matter if people go around killing and hurting people? Why would it matter if people go around creating tremendous amounts of suffering?




Again I get the notion that you are confused. Not to worry. When you are totally present, in a state of being, the action that arises out of you is not clouded by the mind. Let me try to give you an example of what I'm talking about. So say there's someone going around killing people and doing other fucked up things.

In a present state of awareness you can perceive this person and their wrongdoings much more clearly because your thoughts are not being crowded by the conditioned mind. From there one can make the decision to take action, to put an end to the suffering that one individual is causing. Finding a solution to this problem through a totally aware "in there and here now" state of conscious will yield the most effective results.

Quote:

Tacticalbongrip said:
If you do not identify with it chances are you won't be part of the problem, but instead part of the solution to stopping the atrocities of mankind.




Quote:

dblaney said:
This may be well and true, but how would you go about stopping the atrocities if you don't care about others' interpretations and actions?




It's not that you don't care about other's thoughts and interpretations, its just that you don't become very much attached to them. What you see as "caring" is not so much as important as "loving". When someone speaks to you, you can listen and understand in a totally loving way.

Spread the Love.
-TacticalBongRip

Edited by TacticalBongRip (10/16/06 03:27 AM)

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Re: We Demand Nothing Of The Sea [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #6174229 - 10/16/06 04:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Too much qouting. You don't have to answer *everything* bit by bit. Can't you construct an article response to someones statements without actually stating them one by one?

There is no reason to repeat everything every time.

Ohoh, I'm sorry, this is demanding shit from the sea. I'll just ride the waves now. Thank you for listening, bye bye then.


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