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InvisibleBi0TeK
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Registered: 11/07/02
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
    #3514753 - 12/17/04 08:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

In your "Real poison!" thread you said:

Quote:

Silverwolf said:
It has taken me a complete lunation to recover from the poisoning I suffered as a result of eating  just one small Inocybe  Geophylla-mistaken for p.semilanceata.




What I want to know is how did you positively ID a single mushroom as being Inocybe geophylla when you had already consumed it mistaking it as Psilocybe semilanceata?

Please, do tell. :smirk:


--------------------
PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #3521255 - 12/19/04 06:38 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Because when I got home (having realised I had poisoned myself) I then looked up similar shaped mushrooms in a field guide , and positively identified it as an "Inocybe".


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Astrology [Re: Sterile]
    #3521298 - 12/19/04 06:53 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Sterile (what is ?)
Check out my post on p.2 containing extracts from "The Katha Upanishad", I think you may find it interesting.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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InvisibleBi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
    #3521547 - 12/19/04 07:54 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silverwolf said:
Because when I got home (having realised I had poisoned myself) I then looked up similar shaped mushrooms in a field guide , and positively identified it as an "Inocybe".




Yeah, I likely story.

Another thing that springs to mind. Inocybe geophylla grows in deciduous, mixed and coniferous woods/forests where as Psilocybe semilanceata grows in pasture land, lawns, fields or other grassy areas, especially where cattle and sheep graze.

So you were looking for libs in the woods?  :crazy:


--------------------
PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #3527813 - 12/21/04 03:04 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

It wasn,t really woodland, it was at the top edge of a lib productive sloped field and in the same area -I mean within a few square metres- of where I had picked libs the previous year, and not in any significant shade. Can I go now ?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" *DELETED* [Re: Silverwolf]
    #4864769 - 10/28/05 09:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Silverwolf

Reason for deletion: Bump



--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
    #4917858 - 11/10/05 02:27 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Further to my drying method I may now add that a raised drying screen -which allows hot/warm air to circulate around the caps- made of wood and mesh, along with a fan heater, works just as well (I still maintain however that a reflective surface underneath and the use of a broad-spectrum light whilst "blow-drying" may "enhance" the experience !).

Editor's note: It seems that I may be risking a  :shitstorm: of abuse by raising the depleted uranium issue(also see my "Maitake" thread on the "Gourmet and Medicinal" forum). Therefore, further to the current contoversy on the use of "White Phosphorous" by U.S forces in Iraq, I feel that I should make clear that the term "crispy critters" may well refer to the victims of "White Phosphorous" munitions and not neccessarily those of depleted uranium (d.u). However the evidence for the long term effects of d.u munitions, on those who inspire them once particulated, must surely suggest (to any reasonable mind) that their use, to paraphrase the findings of the U.N special tribunals of 1996 & 1997 is .."contrary to the International Convention on Human Rights, against the Geneva Convention and should be considered a war crime." (ref: "bio-accumulation" of d.u in mushrooms growing downwind of artillary ranges etc.)

P.S If you find any inaccuracies or false information in any of my posts feel free to point them out. I come here for open debate and to further my own knowledge aswell (it seems a shame to me that some with knowledge here would rather browbeat others with it than further the understanding of us all).


Edited by Silverwolf (11/20/05 12:25 PM)


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: runnerup]
    #6105976 - 09/27/06 05:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

runnerup said:
Should be in General Questions




God knows where this thread should be now! anyway here's a nugget!

Small mention made here;"In the Swiss specimens, Ibotenic Acid was found in a percentages ranging from 0.08 to 0.1%. Greater concentrations were in the ripe mushrooms grown in the summer. These concentrations focused in the cap more than the stalk. Takemoto isolated it in small quantities also from Amanita pantherina and Amanita strobiliformis. This sample was from Japan [Eugster, 1968]. The compound easily transforms itself through decarboxylation into the most active Muscimol. Because of this, some authors have preferred to give the cumulative percentage of the two compounds together. Benedict and others [1966] found this to be 0.17-0.18% (both for the typus and for the varieties formosa and alba of American origin). In an American pantherina sample, this percentage was 0.46% [Benedict et al., 1966; Chilton and Ott, 19763. Muscazone, finally, is found in all the species in very small quantities. The data available to estimate how much these compounds contribute to the psychoactive syndromes and psychological effects inducted by the Amanita muscaria are focused in two main research studies. The first one was carried on by Waser [1967] with 20 mg. of Ibotenic Acid and 5, 10, and 15 mg. of Muscimol; the second from Theobald and others [1968] with 7.5-10 mg. of Muscimol and 75 mg. of Ibotenic Acid on ten (10) normal subjects. If we can consider the result of these studies, the following emphasis....."


from the Lycaeum

(Ed's note: This does not establish the psychoactivity or no of Amanita Pantherina, I still would not advise anyone not under the influence of a trained Shaman from a longstanding tradition to even consider taking them.)


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 05:21 AM)


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #6111705 - 09/28/06 04:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
I do know of the hundreds of bad experiences people have reported from amanitas, but honestly I think a lot of that might be attributed to their reputation. We hear of bad acid trips all the time, and usually find something to pin it on -- bad atmosphere, frame of mind, too much for an unprepared noobie. Bad mushroom trip, we find the same reasons. Bad amanita trip, and from what I've seen it's generally attributed to the amanita itself.. I think the reputation they've gained may cause their reputation to grow. Ie, someone eats one hoping for a good time, but the whole time they're preparing themselves for a fight through hell.
And indeed if they were used by the berserkers, that's so totally unlike an acid or psilocybe trip that I'm sure it would scare most people, especially someone that had no idea that their trip might take a turn into something that frentically powerful. One of my friends who has eaten them was a 110lb redheaded girl, and it certainly appeared to me that she was quite ready to leap up and start ripping arms off. Not that she would, but that she could at a moment's notice. The only reason I can figure that she had a fun time was that, well, she's quite a rageful lil ball of hate sometimes, hehe, and enjoys that side of herself really as much as any other. My uninformed interpretation at least. Feel free to berate my opinions. I'm just trying to make sense of things from what I see, hear, and read, and I'm just very distrustful of things that I'm told unless they completely fit with all the other pieces.. it's a process of finding enough pieces that you can afford to throw nearly all of them out, and still have enough left that fit together that you can see the whole picture clearly and without any messy opinions fogging your view.




We never did discuss the emotionally, physically and psychically morphic nature of these shroom's effects. They seem to have been linked with both "shape-shifting" and warfare. My own experience with them leads me to deeply suspect the validity of the research M.J mentions which dismisses their use by the Berserkers of the Cults of Odin. Any comments?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (09/28/06 04:23 PM)


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InvisibleAmatoxin
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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6111778 - 09/28/06 04:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------




Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music


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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: Amatoxin]
    #6111788 - 09/28/06 04:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Are these your friends (before and after pics would be good!)?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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InvisibleAmatoxin
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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6111813 - 09/28/06 04:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silverwolf said:
(before and after pics would be good!)?




















--------------------




Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music


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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: Amatoxin]
    #6131907 - 10/04/06 12:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahaha....totally awesome


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Sterile]
    #6135941 - 10/05/06 01:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sterile said:
A year ago ,MJ shroomer and some other shroomerites had a similar talk about the king of fungi...(Amanitas)
MJ told us that R G Wasson reported that siberian shamans never heat-dried the holy shrooms.

My question is mostly practical in nature...if they didn't heat-dry them, how DID they dry them....

Sun drying or wind-blowing drying, doesn't really work from my practical experience, mainly because of the massive amount of water that must be evaporated from within the shroom in a short time (in order to prevent rotting)

Now don't expect me to believe that they had these large hand-fans or something, i need to know cos i find it pretty hard to dry them over the fire without burning them too much which results in potency loss.

I stay for days alone in the forest to pick my annual needs of shrooms, and i need to know if there is a better way of drying them on the top of a hill, with no access to heat dryers, ovens, car-heaters, fireplace , tons of silica gel and generally any kind of civilized methods.Thanx!

I need an academic type of answer here MJ :wink:




I've been thinking about this and pondering on the ancient Norse creation myth which concerns itself with the marriage of ice and fire. Does freeze drying amanitas at -8c or below convert the ibutinol to muscimol (some-one with a good enough freezer -and amanita experience- should try it)? You see how do you dry amanitas in Siberia without preparing a drying chamber fire? maybe you just shove 'em deep enough into the permafrost! It may have taken longer than heat drying to decarboxylise however if you bury them one year whilst eating the previous years harvest what's the problem?
We really need someone to test this. Does anyone know of any research on freeze drying amanitas to convert ibotinol to muscimol, or know the conditions necessary to promote decarboxylation? It's quite feasible that utilising the permafrost was simply for storage (the mushrooms being dried in a specially constructed oven but if the shaman used ovens there should be a picture of one somewhere!).





--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (10/10/06 04:35 PM)


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #6153310 - 10/10/06 09:44 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"Something you should consider before even thinking of picking them:

"Now these guys are only mildly toxic, but keep in mind that the Amanita genus has the species that cause 95 percent of all deaths from mushroom poisoning, so you damn well better know what species you're picking. Amanita virosa (Destroying Angel), Amanita phalloides (Death Cap),...these are the deadliest mushrooms known and cause violent deaths. Apparently you only feel the poison of these bad guys TWO DAYS after you eat them, by which time stomach pumping is seldom any use. They look similar to the "good" Amanitas, so be careful."

"...The Kamchacals gather them usually during the hottest months of July and August; they maintain that those that dry themselves in the earth, on the stalk, and that are somewhat furry and velvety to the touch on the underside of the cap have a far stronger narcotic effect than those picked fresh and strung up to dry in the air...

...The smaller mushrooms, which are bright red and covered with many white warty protuberances, are said to be far stronger in narcotic power than the larger ones, which are pale red and have few white spots.

...The usual way to consume fly-agarics is to dry them and then to swallow them at one gulp, rolled up into a ball, without chewing them; chewing fly-agarics is considered harmful, since it is said to cause digestive disturbances." (Divine Mushroom of Immortality (Fly Agaric Kamachadal) - Canadian Whole Earth Almanac, Vol 3 (No 1) 1972 Frankfurt 1809 by Georg Heinrich von Langsdorf)

"Tatiana is the 72 year old 7th generation shaman, a member of the Evin tribe in the town of Palana. She escaped the Stalinist purge which virtually wiped out the Evin & Koryak shamans and their ancient traditional use of mukhomor (now only the very elderly use mukhomor, while the young have been seduced with vodka). Tatiana is described in Shaman magazine (Spring or Summer 1996).

TATIANA's TEACHINGS - from notes of my August, 1994 Kamchatka trip:

Preparation:

Pick lone A. muscaria mushrooms, not ones in a family. Smaller ones (with open caps/veils) are stronger. Dry in the shade, preferably with a breeze, cap side up. Dig with fingers, use no knives.

Journeying:

Ingest dried mushrooms in odd numbers (3, 5, or parts of 3 or 5 mushrooms). Drink water. If you take a lot, you'll be in a state of lethargy. Tell your family not to bother you for hours, a day, three days, a year. (Tatiana, because of her 7th generation shamanic status, is in a permanent state of journeying and doesn't use Mukhomor for this purpose. She says that she can control ingestors by communicating with the mushroom inside of them.)

Medicinal Uses:

Three small fresh pieces of mukhomor good for sore throat and cancer. For arthritis: Place several young A Muscaria into an airtight container. Put container into a cool dark place (like a basement) until liquid comes out of mushrooms. Take a mushroom in hand, squeeze out moisture and place the pulp on arthritis. Bandage overnight. Mushroom body can be replaced in liquid and will last a long time." - (Visit to Kamchatka (Tatiana's Teachings) the Siberian Muscaria & Telluride Muscaria by Carter/Jo Norris)

History of use

The historical information of traditional use of this mushroom is misty at best, there are a lot of theory’s but little recorded facts. There is evidence of its use among the ancient Greeks and the proto-Hindi. Wasson suggested that the centre of the Eulisian Mysteries of Greece and the Soma of India was the Amanita Muscaria mushroom. Claudius II and Pope Clement VII were both killed by enemies who poisoned them with deadly Amanitas.. There are old reports about ritual use by shamans in Siberia and recreational use by the people in a tribe.

The mushroom was used by the native tribes of North East Asia in Siberia. The fly-agaric was in constant demand and there was a well-established trade between Kamchatka where it did grow to the Taigonos Peninsula where it did not grow at all. The Koryaks paid for them with reindeer and Lewin (1931) reported one animal was sometimes exchanged for one mushroom. The Kamchadales and Koryaks consumed from 1 to 3 dried mushrooms. They believed the smaller mushrooms with a large quantity of small warts were more active than the pale red and less spotted ones. Among the Koryaks, their women chewed the dried agaric and rolled the masticated material into small sausages which were swallowed by the men. Lewin does not report whether the women got some of the psychological response. The Siberians discovered the active principle was excreted in the urine and could be passed through the body once more. As soon as the Koryak noted his experience was passing, he would drink his own urine which he had saved for this purpose.

When the rich Koryaks "make a feast, they pour water upon some of these mushrooms, and boil them. They then drink the liquor, which intoxicates them; the poorer sort, who cannot afford to lay in a store of these mushrooms, post themselves, on these occasions, round the huts of the rich, and watch for the opportunity of the guest coming down to make water; and then hold a wooden bowl to receive the urine, which they drink off greedily, as having still some virtue of the mushroom in it, and by this way they also get drunk" (Strahlberg 1736). He continues in telling that with other tribes, where the people don’t drink the urine, the reindeer feast on it. It appears that reindeer like the effects of the mushroom too. Imogen Seger states that the use of the mushroom in Europe was banned to the underground and falsly accused of being a deadly poison and the appearance of the mushroom in folk belief functions as evidence. James Arthur goes a step further in this theory and explains the symbols in various religions and folk beliefs as Amanita influenced and evidence for a wide use of the mushroom in religion."

This is an "Amanita Shop" file (affiliate of "IamShaman").
It seems some of what I have written seems away by the above. Any comments anyone?

Admittedly there is no mention made of;
1. Re-sporing.
2. Any preference for early fall specimins.
3. Advanced drying techniques.
It seems the Evin and Koryaks may have got around some of the problems by concentrating on only the very strongest shrooms. In which case I'll be on the lookout for small solitary specimins myself and (if it is true that the more juvenile caps are stronger) extending my apologies to those I advised to pick only "fully opened caps".


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (10/11/06 05:16 PM)


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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6154114 - 10/10/06 02:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Dear M.J
If you are going to delete your images, please delete the entire post as well!


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6154142 - 10/10/06 02:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
The same chemicals I posted in this forum for Amanita can be found in most variations of the amanitas of the orange and red cap types.

The name variation is used because the caps colors are slightly different than the crimson red caps.

The pantherina contains the largerst amouncts of muscimol and ibotenic acid.

Ott once extracted three grams of ibotenic acid from over 120 pounds of Amanita muscaria and Amanita pantherina. Took one year for the extraction of those three grams which were sold to research labs for approx $5,000 dollars a gram each. Not worth the time says Ott to me in a Pers. Comm. in 1986. That makes ibotenic acid one of the most expensive drugs at five thousand a gram and that was over 15-years ago.

Mjshroomer

And p. tampanensis, originally collected by Pollock, Guzm?n and friends, in the early 1970s from Tampanensis, Florida, has not been found in Florida since.

However, recently a collection of two or three shrooms was reported in the literature in 1996 by Guzman who identified it from Mississippi.

Additionally, P. mamilata was only found once in Florida in the early 1920s or 1930s by Murril. IT has not been found again in the US but a small collection was found and reported from Jamaica in 1996 by Guzm?n.

mj




I thought Amanita Pantherina contained the largest amounts of Muscarine or Muscazone (?) and Ibotenic acid (Ibutinol).


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (10/10/06 04:04 PM)


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Re: ""Silver." A Wolf's Story."The shamanic use of a.muscaria. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6154175 - 10/10/06 03:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Quote:

(note:MJ's info on the strength of the a.pantherina does suggest that the literature I read some 10 years ago, which suggested that the pantherina was especially highly prized by Siberian (?) shaman may have indeed been correct (sorry no reference).




Unless this was in a work of fiction where you read or heard that about the Amanita, it is not in the published literature, at least the scientific and/or mycological literature at all. I now since I wrote the bibliography of entheogenic fungi which lists the almost 300 references to the Amanita muscaria (SOMA) complex. And the Soma references will soon appear int he fourth iswue of the journal Entheos, whose site, unfortunatley is currently down for reconstruction.

mj

This also includes every reference in the Russian literature to the discovery and historical documentation of the very shamans in that region of the world who use the Amanita muscaira.



No one has ever been able to grow any Amanita species away from their natural habitat.

And their main sybiosis and mychorhizial connections are Birch and Pine, and a few minopr trees.

mj

And I am referring top expert cultivators who for years have tried.

In Oregon there is a deserted naval Hopspital where up to a few hundred pounds of A. muscaria and var. formosa grow each fall.

mj

Here is a photo of some Amanita muscaria taken by the Hawkseye when he visited Seattle a few years back,.






The Oak is not a "minor tree" (especially in these Isles!).


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Sterile]
    #6161745 - 10/12/06 01:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sterile said:
Hmmm...i wonder if you read any other posts except yours in this thread....you seem so alienated!

take care dude!




Yeah I get so alienated I wander over fields taking pictures of mushrooms, strange.....













There were at least a hundred a.muscaria out there today (12th Oct 2006 Silverwolf).


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (10/13/06 01:01 PM)


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
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Last seen: 11 years, 21 days
Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6163405 - 10/12/06 08:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silverwolf said:
Quote:

Bi0TeK said:
Quote:

Silverwolf said: The prefered method is sun dried but that doesn't realy work too well in the UK




I now have some "energy efficient broad-spectrum grow-lights (infra-red bias)" for my aloes, aswell as the bio-light (broad-spectrum for sad). This extra touch (and the use of a reflective surface and slower drying time by fan) may well produce a superior result -he said superiorly-...




Tatiana's method is light "non-invasive" I amend my remarks, however she prefers breeze drying so considers air movement essential. May I draw everyone's attention to the fact that one solitary just post veil break a.muscaria is considered worth an entire reindeer makes you think huh?

As I remarked on a thread on the hunting forum I won't be experimenting with amanita muscaria again until I am clear what all this means, there are interesting issues raised by Tatiana's Evin traditions.I have now described this thread as "A Speculation" something which was not clear before. I have also said I should "hit the books" I should.


I have edited much extraneous or any seriously* misleading information out of this thread, as it stands it represents an exploration into the nature of amanita muscaria (Now at least there is a collection of real questions; "To know the answer first know the question you must...hhhmmmm.").

*By most authorities really none.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (10/13/06 01:05 PM)


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