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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Creativity
#6159832 - 10/11/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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What is the difference between creative and logical thought? How does one lift the truly creative gems out of the mostly useless mass of distracting thoughts that run through our minds everyday?
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Telepylus
Babyman


Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6159959 - 10/11/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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logic exists independent from the heart.
creativity requires love to blossom- bliss, or suffering, or pain, or peace
you have to be passionate about the things you love over time, then creativity builds to inspire these perfect gems of art.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
creativity requires love to blossom- bliss, or suffering, or pain, or peace
you have to be passionate about the things you love over time, then creativity builds to inspire these perfect gems of art.
Creativity is emotions, then?
Seeing as I want to be a writer, I've been studying both my own works and the works of many varied classic writers, all writing from different countries and in different styles with different genres, and something seems to be missing. It is as if there is a clear difference between amateur works and works that become classics, but I have always examined it logically and always come up empty-handed.
But now it is clearer that the difference lies in the creativity, not only the source of the creativity but the way it is wielded in the story. Logically, creativity is the result of creating novel associations between otherwise established and unconnected foundations from reality, but this says nothing of being able to differentiate between amateur or shitty works of art from classic pieces. It is subjective, yes, but the majority of humans often come to the same subjective opinion, so there is more to it than chaotic relativity.
It's difficult to find out what that is, however.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6160178 - 10/11/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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logic is just a style of associative thought. part of the routine is to keep a monitor out for strays. the strays are dealt with severely as the thread is cultivated and groomed towards some premise or solution.
it is however an act, and it consumes tremendous resources and is full of pretense.
creative thought has less of the monitor going, and it is an easier modality, yet few of us will spend enough satisfying time in it as this is the essence of generating strays, and the monitor (the parent) will sneak out and treat it (the child) severely.
Creativity suffers because we have little confidence that the monitor behavior - the logical parent routine - can be out of line.
enabling the child in favor of the parent is key to balancing these roles. it can be an amusing play.
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_ đ§ _
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6160184 - 10/11/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've always thought that creativity was the passionate marriage of intuition and logic. The differences, once opposites, become complements. The attraction is mutual, and the merge is powerful.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Creativity [Re: Veritas]
#6160191 - 10/11/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: I've always thought that creativity was the passionate marriage of intuition and logic. The differences, once opposites, become complements. The attraction is mutual, and the merge is powerful.
Well said.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Creativity [Re: Veritas]
#6160224 - 10/11/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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That seems counter-intuitive.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6160252 - 10/11/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see it as the old brain (reptilian and limbic) dancing with the new brain (literally "neocortex.")
The old brain makes connections and understands experience in a way that the new brain cannot fully grasp. The steps are complex and seem contrary to the beat. But creativity allows the old brain to grasp the new brains' hand, to pull it into the dance. Once on the floor, the music takes over. The steps flow, the movements evolve.
Logic dictates the predictable beat, intuition the melody. Creativity is the dance which celebrates them both.
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Telepylus
Babyman


Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6160264 - 10/11/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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logic works nicely for robots it doesn't work at all for artists
if you want to be a technical writer, then a logical mind is great
if you want to write something beautiful and powerful that contains a spirit useful for entertainment and inspiration- you'll need to use your heart or you won't get very far.
--------------------
Law of Love
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6161028 - 10/12/06 05:08 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: What is the difference between creative and logical thought? How does one lift the truly creative gems out of the mostly useless mass of distracting thoughts that run through our minds everyday?
Only by doing (action) can we express a creative thought.
Creative thought makes something out of nothing... logical thought is simple perception of what we already know.
How do we find the gems? Well, first we must create them.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (10/12/06 05:14 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Creativity [Re: Veritas]
#6161061 - 10/12/06 05:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: I've always thought that creativity was the passionate marriage of intuition and logic. The differences, once opposites, become complements. The attraction is mutual, and the merge is powerful.
yes but did you ever try to see what logic really is? the practice of logic? i mean in the context of associative thinking, logic does not exist except as logical seeming role playing. (the epitomy is spock - an actor)
the only thing that works naturally in mind is something akin to what is called intuition which is essentially associative pattern matching.
perhaps a paraphrase would be the enmeshing of logical roleplaying and naturally free associative mind to produce creative thought
the opposites attracting include (among others):
natural flow and practiced routine
child and parent
female and male
water and rocks
etc.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Creativity [Re: Rose]
#6161556 - 10/12/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Ravus said: What is the difference between creative and logical thought? How does one lift the truly creative gems out of the mostly useless mass of distracting thoughts that run through our minds everyday?
Only by doing (action) can we express a creative thought.
Creative thought makes something out of nothing... logical thought is simple perception of what we already know.
How do we find the gems? Well, first we must create them.
Is creativity really the creation of something out of nothing? The reason creative works of art appeal to so many millions of people from all different areas of the world is because I believe they are based off of solid foundations in the human mind. All humans seem to experience similar realities, and so by showing a different perception of these foundations, or creating new associations between foundations common to all humans, artists create works of art that seem almost universal.
I agree with your last line fully. Whatever creativity is, it needs to be created. By thinking more, perceiving the world more, we create more thoughts, but it only seems to create a more creative mind indirectly. It is as if creativity is an essential aspect rising from our perception of the world, but it is impossible to control or enhance because it only occurs with all the other masses of thoughts.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Creativity [Re: Ravus]
#6162484 - 10/12/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said:
Is creativity really the creation of something out of nothing? The reason creative works of art appeal to so many millions of people from all different areas of the world is because I believe they are based off of solid foundations in the human mind. All humans seem to experience similar realities, and so by showing a different perception of these foundations, or creating new associations between foundations common to all humans, artists create works of art that seem almost universal.
I stand by my statement.
Technically, no... creativity is not the creation of something from nothing... not always... but that was the most concise way I could think of... to make the point I wished to make.
I knew I left myself open to the point you made, however. I just didn't want to spoil a short post with undue explination... and, I was trolling for some conversation... so, since you've asked...
Of course, you can combine a plum and a Slurpee and CREATE a plum Slurpee. Plums and Slurpees already exist so how can I say the plum Slurpee was created from nothing?
Let me explain:
Creative thought, is NOTHING until it is EXPRESSED... and put into motion. Creativity, until it is expressed lives in the spirit world of thoughts, and gods. This is the "Nothing" I spoke of... when I said creativity makes something of nothing.
By contacting 7-11, and telling them about my idea, I can begin to make my creative Plum Slurpee idea come to life... and cease existing, only in the spirit realm of creative thought.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (10/12/06 04:34 PM)
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slaphappy
Its just me


Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, RÄholt...
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Re: Creativity [Re: Rose]
#6164743 - 10/13/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Creativity creates, logic uses creative forces.
Logic is creative in the sense that we imagine breaking the creative construct into parts and fitting them together, to make an abstract image sensible. Like finding out how a telephone works. However, logic is what you see, and abstraction is what you feel. You can have abstracts without logic, but you can't have logic without abstracts.
Learning how shit works is making feelings visible. You allready know how it works, in the sense that you can use the damn thing. But when you know how it actually works you see *how* you are able to use the damn thing.
Logic is the how and the ability.
Creativity is the why and the opportunity.
Gah, I really dug myself a hole on this one, but I'm too hung over to bother making sense right now.
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
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I'll ignore the hole you dug, and agree with the thought behind your comments.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--


Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Creativity [Re: Rose]
#6164833 - 10/13/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you have an outlet for your creativity then you know that you're being creative when your topic is free and flowing. Otherwise, creativity has power. Regular thought is merely discursive.
-------------------- ...or something
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