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OfflineLuNaTiX
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What do you think "Pure Evil" really is?
    #6158518 - 10/11/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I wan't to read about what each of you think the concept of evil really is.

Serious replies only plz


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: What do you thin "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158525 - 10/11/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That which, to the observer, is the opposite of the observer's concept of good.

There is no "evil" outside the realm of individual perception, and though collectives of human beings may align along the same lines of perception, there will always be someone that thinks differently, rendering the idea of "true" good and "true" evil obsolete.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158661 - 10/11/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Evil intentions are born out of some type of fear which has been created in the mind. Anyone who allows fear to take hold of them is capable of performing "evil" actions.


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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158687 - 10/11/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

An illusion, like everything else.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158688 - 10/11/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that everything is exactly how it should be. I don't believe in a devil and demons are personal.

What I consider evil is people who deliberately cause or prolong suffering and death for personal gratification. There are people who base their life on that, and they would be "evil people".


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #6158773 - 10/11/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think everyday evil is essentially selfishness. Not being willing to put one's self out even a little for the good of another, greed, insulting others, etc. This is the sort of evil I see almost every day I drive in traffic (FUCK inconsiderate drivers who make it tougher for everyone else).

I figure Hitler, Stalin, Mao Ze Dong, Pinochet, Cahmere Rouge (sp?) and other mass-genocides are probably the best examples of what I think of regarding "true" evil. Even this is just a greatly magnified version of "normal" evil. All those genocides served political and social control purposes, not that anything let alone control could justify such atrocities.

Onemorerobot: sounds like you're saying something along this classic argument - There are many different morality systems THEREFORE no moral system is correct. There is no good and evil because people have different beliefs.

There's no reason to believe in moral relativism - it just makes a positivist claim (there are lots of different systems of morality) into a normative one (therefore there is no objective good and evil). This is an invalid argument - the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the contention. Just because there are many different opinions doesn't make none of them correct. One may be, or none of the current ones might be right, or maybe part of one and part of another and so on is actually what's right. Who knows?

Saying the lack of moral concensus means there is no objective morality is like saying "there is no concensus on many scientific issues, so there is no true answer to difficult scientific questions".

Without objective good and evil there was no real moral reason to stop Nazi Germany. It was just one non-moral agent fighting another. For that matter, there's no reason besides fitting in with your society not to rape, kill, steal, etc.

There are several well thought out moral systems that do a pretty good job of trying to find an objective moral truth such as consequentialism and deontology.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: MOTH]
    #6158776 - 10/11/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MOTH said:
An illusion, like everything else.




bah! cop-out answer!

The universal answer.  :tongue:


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6158820 - 10/11/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SilentG said:
Quote:

MOTH said:
An illusion, like everything else.




bah! cop-out answer!

The universal answer.  :tongue:




I guess I could make a pretty sentence about what "pure evil" is, but in my opinion everything in the ocean of Samsara is an illusion.  Just a reflection from my own egotistical darkness.

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InvisibleRipple
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158823 - 10/11/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Barbra Streisand........

No doubt!


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Ripple]
    #6158852 - 10/11/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, forget what I said earlier about illusions...I agree with Ripple.  :tongue2:

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: MOTH]
    #6158874 - 10/11/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MOTH said:
Okay, forget what I said earlier about illusions...I agree with Ripple.  :tongue2:




Now THAT is an answer I can get behind. And a very pretty sentence.

pssst - if you're posting on an internet messageboard than samsara is probably just a word. :shocked:


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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InvisibleStroFun
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6158913 - 10/11/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

George Bush and his entire cabinet. Ask any muslim

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OfflineWheels
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: StroFun]
    #6158986 - 10/11/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't believe in the concept of objective morality, because that would require a source of those morals beyond humankind. However I do believe in some degree of natural law, if that makes sense. I feel people (adults for the purposes of this post) have a natural right to be free from the control of others. This control includes having their life prematurely ended by somebody else's choice.

Therefore my subjective view of "evil," despite my hesitation to use moralistic terms, is anybody making it their primary purpose to exact control over other humans for the sake of that control. So in modern terms I feel the current administration is guilty of this, albeit to a far lesser extent than the war-related atrocities mentioned by some others.

Basically I believe we owe it to one another to stay out of each others lives in any kind of controlling capacity. That goes hand in hand with a notion that we must try to co-exist if we must or want to live together.


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I don't understand... who could kill a man, in the name of peace?

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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6158998 - 10/11/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

mexicans


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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InvisibleRipple
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: barfightlard]
    #6159008 - 10/11/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That's not nice :blush:


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Wheels]
    #6159031 - 10/11/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Wheels said:
I don't believe in the concept of objective morality, because that would require a source of those morals beyond humankind.




That's not a valid conclusion about the origin of morality. There are objective truths regarding other things that don't require a higher power, why should morality be any different?

There are plenty of moral systems that place no emphasis on a higher power. Read Kant and John Stuart Mill for starters.

In fact if you say a higher power sets up morality then morality is no more than the arbitrary decision of a higher power. That's weak, why follow that morality? For fear of Hell? That makes the higher power essentially the biggest bully on the block and that's no reason to do something either.

For something to be good you have to do it for goodness's sake - not because you'll get in trouble if you don't. If you're doing something just to avoid punishment then you're only serving your own ends.

That's one of my major problems with legislating morality - why rob the goodness from not doing "bad" things (which are often just distasteful or dumb things really)?


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

Edited by SilentG (10/11/06 04:20 PM)

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Offlinemymoonforest
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159044 - 10/11/06 04:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Isn't this a religious concept?
What's the opposite. The absolute good?

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159047 - 10/11/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Pure evil is the blatant and complete disregard for how your own actions may impact others.

u


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InvisibleJenny
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: MOTH]
    #6159053 - 10/11/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MOTH said:
An illusion, like everything else.




good answer


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Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.

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OfflineColbadol
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159078 - 10/11/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

There is no Pure evil without Pure good.

but pure good exists, and imho it is goodwill towards all mankind.

thus,

pure evil exists in people with zero empathy towards his/her fellow man.


ah, but LOTS of people dont have any empathy towards others. Hell, most people in NYC are like that, lol..to an extent. Thus, a more detailed answer would be: someone with no empathy, but also a destructive tendency and hatred.


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159085 - 10/11/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SilentG said:
That's not true. There are objective truths regarding other things that don't require a higher power.

There are plenty of moral systems that place no emphasis on a higher power. Read Kant and John Stuart Mill for starters.

In fact if you say a higher power sets up morality then morality is no more than the arbitrary decision of a higher power. That's weak, why follow that morality? For fear of Hell? That makes the higher power essentially the biggest bully on the block and that's no reason to do something either.




I should look into that reading you mentioned. I only speak from my limited forays into that area. My beliefs about what constitutes evil are still what I stated before, I just chose to put it in my own context.

And your statement about a higher power, that's basically how I feel, that morals solely from a higher power are weak. I have met a lot of people who feel that they are moral only from their duty to God. They believe people like me, who do not believe in any deities, are immoral.

My rejection of religious based morality is because it negates the idea of a duty to fellow man in my opinion. That being said my feelings come from a lack of my experiencing of a moral system outside those constraints. That probably comes from my Christian infused upbringing because my mom is one of those people. She may not express it anymore, surrounded by atheists and agnostics, but I know deep down duty to God is still what drives her moral core.

Your mention of objective truths seems equivalent to my expression of a natural law. However I really do wonder whether our morals come mainly from societal pressures and norms. I question if I would feel at all bad about killing another human if I had never met one prior to that exact moment.


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I don't understand... who could kill a man, in the name of peace?

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colbadol]
    #6159103 - 10/11/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Colbadol said:
There is no Pure evil without Pure good.




Why? Is there any possible basis for this claim?

Lots of people hold this belief (usually in an evil is necessary for their to be good sort of justification for the existence of evil) and I've never read a single good reason for it.

I understand that bad deeds make good deeds look even better and vice versa, but to say the one requires the other in order to exist would be like saying "Santa is necessary for Christmas to happen."

I mean, cats could exist without dogs right? I just don't understand how they are dependant. Although I agree with your concept of pure good and pure evil in general - just not in a mutually justifying way.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colbadol]
    #6159105 - 10/11/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Good answer, keep em comming :smirk:


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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Wheels]
    #6159136 - 10/11/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know if I'd feel bad after killing the first human I ever encountered, but whether you feel bad or not isn't the same as saying the act is bad. Sociopaths don't feel bad, but they do bad things.

John Stuart Mill's "On Utilitarianism" is a really good, quick read that covers the major arguments for one of the more widely accepted moral theories among moral philosophers. Utilitarianism basically says if the effects or consequences of an action are more good for people than bad the action is good. Problems arise when you wonder if public executions might do society good or at least entertain people, if we should eat the elderly because they contribute nothing and are in pain, if you should throw the person who's weighing your life raft overboard to save three others, etc.

Kant's "Kritique of Pure Reason" and I think another that I'm not remembering establish his theory of deontology which is really quite a beast to get down. His writings are rough! It's a lot easier to ask any philosophy prof to explain the jist of it (essentially it's more than just the action that determines if something's right; you've gotta do something for the right reasons for it to be good - not to use people, but to consider their goals and motives as well as your own)


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159161 - 10/11/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In electronics for power to exist you need two types of energy - and +, I believe it is much the same way in life about many things. Cats and dogs, although usually deemed enemies they are not true yin and yang because they could exist without each other. Now female and male dogs or cats is a different story, they need each other to exist. Good and evil are much the same way, if you just have good, and no evil at all, can you really call it good? it would just be... the way... there would be nothing to compair it to or give it its meaning. The more good there is in the world the more evil there will be... or at least seem to be. It's much like the war on drugs, think of the police and the law as "Good" or "Light" and think of your drug dealers as "Bad" or "Dark". Lets say the cops bust 50% of the drug dealers in america, and they go to jail, prices of drugs sky rocket and a void of oppertunity is created to be filled, and so it is, with more "Bad" drug dealers who see a chance to make some serious moola regardless of the risks. Now lets say some kind of organized crime syndicate decides to take out 50% of the cops, and they all die. Alot of the other cops start to become scared, and many want to quit, so the government decides to increase the wages of the cops conciderably, and a void of oppertunity is created and all of a sudden people signing up to become cops and cops who were already cops decide to stay and continue their pointless war on drugs.

This is... I believe... the force that holds the universe togeather, try not to think of it as bad and good, but rather two opposites that need each other to survive, and its not just as simple as one big yin and yang, there are billions and billions of them found all over the place goin in and out of balance everywhere to create what we call life.

So you see, left/right, up/down, right/wrong, life/death, smart/dumb, short/tall... it all needs to be balanced or it has no meaning.

I would also like to add that there is a 3rd aspect of the balance, it is anything that changes the balance, it is the line between the dark and light sides of yin and yang, it shapes and modifies, it can be many things.


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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159179 - 10/11/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting :smirk: , I always thought evil to be the ability to make logical decisions without and morals or feelsings behind it, like a robot.


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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159213 - 10/11/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LuNaTiX said:
In electronics for power to exist you need two types of energy - and +, I believe it is much the same way in life about many things. Cats and dogs, although usually deemed enemies they are not true yin and yang because they could exist without each other. Now female and male dogs or cats is a different story, they need each other to exist. Good and evil are much the same way, if you just have good, and no evil at all, can you really call it good? it would just be... the way... there would be nothing to compair it to or give it its meaning. The more good there is in the world the more evil there will be... or at least seem to be. It's much like the war on drugs, think of the police and the law as "Good" or "Light" and think of your drug dealers as "Bad" or "Dark". Lets say the cops bust 50% of the drug dealers in america, and they go to jail, prices of drugs sky rocket and a void of oppertunity is created to be filled, and so it is, with more "Bad" drug dealers who see a chance to make some serious moola regardless of the risks. Now lets say some kind of organized crime syndicate decides to take out 50% of the cops, and they all die. Alot of the other cops start to become scared, and many want to quit, so the government decides to increase the wages of the cops conciderably, and a void of oppertunity is created and all of a sudden people signing up to become cops and cops who were already cops decide to stay and continue their pointless war on drugs.

This is... I believe... the force that holds the universe togeather, try not to think of it as bad and good, but rather two opposites that need each other to survive, and its not just as simple as one big yin and yang, there are billions and billions of them found all over the place goin in and out of balance everywhere to create what we call life.

So you see, left/right, up/down, right/wrong, life/death, smart/dumb, short/tall... it all needs to be balanced or it has no meaning.




A comparison is great for understanding something better or making it have more impact on you, but I don't think that means it's necessary for its existence.

I understand the idea of yin and yang ok (I think) and it's not about good and evil. Negative and positive, creative and destructive, hot and cold yes, but good and evil as we're discussing is a more Western notion. The problem here is you're using an Easter system that explains how everything is as a whole to explain a small part of things that are generally discussed and understood in Western terms. Yin and Yang may explain how someone might be ruled by his passions and violate his duty to the state or his family or lord or whatever, but it's not going to explain much about whether it's ok to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family.

When you say "not to think of this as good and evil" it makes me think we're talking about two different things here. Yet you're trying to use this yin/yang concept to say something about good and evil. You also havn't really explained why the two things (yin and yang, hot and cold, not good and not bad, male and female) need each other to survive - you've simply just repeated the idea in different terms multiple times.

The Western ideas about good and evil generally revolve around God or moral systems which don't require the existence of evil. I only lend any credence to the ones that do not involve a higher power, and none of them require any amount of evil in the world to allow for good in the world. 

While a world with nothing but goodness in it might be boring and you wouldn't have any clue about what evil is, that alone does not make evil necessary for good. It would just mean our opinions and feelings about good and evil would be different (ie. possibly good would be how things always are and we would have no word for evil).

Any analogy that labels cops as good and drug users as bad I'm just gonna have to reject out of hand :smile:. Besides that sounds more like an argument for supply and demand than good and evil being mutually necessary for each other.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

Edited by SilentG (10/11/06 05:37 PM)

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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159259 - 10/11/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I understand that good and evil are merely concepts based solely apon each person, but you will never find a world where there is only good, regardless of how many try to aim for that. There will ALWAYS be something people do not like... it will just become more and more refined but it will always be there, it is like trying to devide a number over and over, you will never get to 0, you will always have a tiny bit.

as for my analogy, I ment no offense, it is just how many normal people see things, it could easly be turned around from the perspective of the drug dealers, because they obviously think they are the good and the cops are bad. Like I said, good and bad are merely words representing something that is basicly a matter of perspective. The purpose of this thread is to find out what people thought of good and evil, and many agree they are all in the eyes of the beholder.

And yes yin and yang are much like supply and demand, where there is a void, it WILL be filled or a power is created and the balance is disrupted.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colbadol]
    #6159263 - 10/11/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

an attitude of harm rather than help, or me when i go a few days w/o the herb :tongue:


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"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper.  Go to the country, build you a home."

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159274 - 10/11/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LuNaTiX said:
I understand that good and evil are merely concepts based solely apon each person, but you will never find a world where there is only good, regardless of how many try to aim for that. There will ALWAYS be something people do not like... it will just become more and more refined but it will always be there, it is like trying to devide a number over and over, you will never get to 0, you will always have a tiny bit.

as for my analogy, I ment no offense, it is just how many normal people see things, it could easly be turned around from the perspective of the drug dealers, because they obviously think they are the good and the cops are bad. Like I said, good and bad are merely words representing something that is basicly a matter of perspective. The purpose of this thread is to find out what people thought of good and evil, and many agree they are all in the eyes of the beholder.




Moral concepts about good and evil have nothing to do with the way the world is. The way the world is is described by positivistic statements such as "today it is cloudy".

Moral theories and the morality of any given action asks "how SHOULD things be?" That is "should I steal a loaf of bread to feed my starving family?"

Please go back and apply my arguments for an objective morality here. I don't want to sound like an ass, but there are many arguments for an objective morality. Simply because people have different perceptions about an issue doesn't mean there isn't a correct perceptions. I'm not going to pretend I know what is right and wrong, but I do believe there IS a right and wrong.

If I did steal the loaf of bread that wouldn't make it right anymore than it would make it wrong.

edit: hey, yah, don't sweat it I took no offense! :smile:

I'm sort of playing devil's advocate and putting out some pretty solid ideas I've come across wondering about these same issues. I also don't think that something as amazingly beyond my scope as the 'cosmos and all things' can be bound to any one system of thought. Everything works on some level or another, but for everyday "should I do this or that" Western philosophy is pretty solid imo. I like Eastern ideas for examining the whole, but Western philosophy for everyday life and conduct.


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Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

Edited by SilentG (10/11/06 05:53 PM)

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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159275 - 10/11/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the best description i have come across came from a more religious slant than i care to buy into but the overall concept is still applicable.

The idea is that evil is not a tangible edifice but, rather, the lack of a tangible edifice called "good" (or "god").

Much like darkness cannot be quantified or measured and cold cannot be measured or quantified; What is measured and quantified is the relative amounts of light or heat. The energy which pervades. Temperature is not measured as a term of cold but of heat or lack thereof. Candlepower is not measured as a term of darkness but of luminosity or lack thereof.

The concept can be applied to evil. Evil is the lack of good or "god".

Pure evil, by this standard, would be the complete and utter lack of that which is good.

I declare that pure evil cannot be observed. Just as one cannot observe absolute zero. If anything, it is a quantum state that is destroyed via observation.

I am fully prepared to accept that every bit of the above is pure horseshit as well. :grin:

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: debianlinux]
    #6159287 - 10/11/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Nice Aquinas there!

Yeah, that's often used to explain how there can be evil in a world seen over by a benevolent and all-powerful god. The problem of evil in the world is basically the one argument an atheist can make against the existence of God, and it's a good one.

I like how the unreality of evil kind of meshes with eastern ideas about pain, suffering, and whatnot all being illusions. Like how the Buddha was able to have no concern for the viscious devils that attacked him. Unfortunately an illusionary mugger can still shoot and injure you (albeit in a temporary way).

But how would this idea of evil being illusionary contribute to one deciding if it's ok to steal a loaf of bread to feed yourself? How can this idea help people to not do the wrong thing?


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: debianlinux]
    #6159302 - 10/11/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Nicely said, I think I may have read the same religious document you read.. was it the one that took place in the university classroom?


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159334 - 10/11/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I really don't know what truely good and truely evil are, but I do believe like someone posted, everything is as it should be, the big picture that is. I believe heaven and hell are all in the mind and therefor if you steal for a just cause, it makes no differance in the end that is, I mean it would make a differance if you get caught, but if when you die, and return to the source I doubt it will make a differance.


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Ripple]
    #6159340 - 10/11/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ripple said:
That's not nice :blush:




well their food gives me the shits, thats dpure evil  :tongue:


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159400 - 10/11/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

affirmative

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6159590 - 10/11/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SilentG said:
Quote:

Colbadol said:
There is no Pure evil without Pure good.




Why? Is there any possible basis for this claim?

Lots of people hold this belief (usually in an evil is necessary for their to be good sort of justification for the existence of evil) and I've never read a single good reason for it.






It's the relative nature of a subjective term.

There is no beautiful without ugly. If EVERYTHING were beautiful, we wouldnt know it without something ugly to judge against.
Same thing with good and bad.
It's a balance.


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159679 - 10/11/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Satanist/child abuse sex rings/black magic/government/policing people/government agency's/military/Illuminati/money/etc...


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colbadol]
    #6159691 - 10/11/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)










:crazy2:


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6159703 - 10/11/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LuNaTiX said:
Interesting :smirk: , I always thought evil to be the ability to make logical decisions without and morals or feelsings behind it, like a robot.




I take offense at that. :smirk:


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6159716 - 10/11/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

See sig :smirk:


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #6159738 - 10/11/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have sigs turned off.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6159750 - 10/11/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In any case, most people are just wasted biologic molecules which could be put to a probable better use in the overall scheme of things,
so why bother explainig why having delusional robots is a BAD idea?




:mad:


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Colbadol]
    #6160565 - 10/12/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Colbadol said:
Quote:

SilentG said:
Quote:

Colbadol said:
There is no Pure evil without Pure good. 




Why? Is there any possible basis for this claim?

Lots of people hold this belief (usually in an evil is necessary for their to be good sort of justification for the existence of evil) and I've never read a single good reason for it.






It's the relative nature of a subjective term.

There is no beautiful without ugly. If EVERYTHING were beautiful, we wouldnt know it without something ugly to judge against.
Same thing with good and bad.
It's a balance.




Please consider all previous points I made about an objective morality vs people's various subjective ideas and their relations to the surroundings in which we develop.

Then please consider all the previous points I made after Lunatix said the same thing regarding the need for one thing to compare to another to allow something to exist. It might effect our perception of a thing, but it would not impact any objective truth about the thing.

Points are too long to bother rewording or repeating or even hunting down and copying.

The ironic thing is that in most any age in Western culture before the 80s very few of yall would have been moral relativists. Ayn Rand really kicked that one up a notch, especially with college students.

There are three types of judgements people can make. Positivistic judgements such as "this is a desk I'm sitting at." It's a fact. Call it by different names - they all mean desk at root. Judgements of taste such as "this is the best desk ever" are simply my take on what I find pleasurable. Then there are normative judgements such as "you shouldn't have stolen my wallet to go buy crack." Morality deals only with normative statements.

Science is generally the realm of positive statements. Science seeks to prove various qualities about things that exist in our world. Do you think that physicists who are trying to unify all theories would say "because we can't agree on one thing and all have different opinions, there is no real unified theory?" Our failure to understand or know something doesn't nullify it.

The ugly/beautiful analogy is bad because those are issues of taste. Taste is truly subjective. Everyone has different tastes and that's fine because issues that are purely of taste (such as sexual preference) are value-neutral. Only you are effected by your tastes. Well, maybe if your shirt is hideous enough it might cross over into a normative issue :smile:. Tastes are determined by comparison and that's fine.

Morality though isn't an issue of what we like, what is yummy, or what is fun. It's an issue of what is truly right or wrong or perhaps what has elements of both.

Now saying "there are differnt takes on morality throughout the world and even within individual societies" is a positivistic statement. It's a fact about the world, and we can't infer anything normative from this statement.

When I say Hitler was wrong to set in motion genocide I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm saying he shouldn't have done that - in a perfect world he wouldn't have. Sure we don't live in that world, but it doesn't change what should have been. Even more than that - I'm also saying that even if I had a different idea about that, it would still be objectively wrong despite my different feelings.

An analogy I liked in philosophy is the impotent omniscient observer thought experiment. Imagine an entity that is totally fictitious which is completely omniscient and benevolent, but has absolutely no power to act in anyway. Whatever that entity would want you to do is objectively right and vice versa. Now the entity can't effect you at all, so you can go about doing whatever you like, but it won't change that the entity wishes you would do the right thing. Your actions and beliefs and even your ignorance doesn't stop there from being an objective right or wrong.


--------------------
Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: SilentG]
    #6233618 - 11/01/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

People that live in hypocrisy have no morals. They seem to be angry all the time without evidence of any psychiatric condition. They like to see people suffer. Having no empathy for others. And I'm not just talking about snappin' on people or acting out or even misbehaving. Have you ever said to a person "So what the hell is your problem anyway". I have met people that I thought were pure evil. And thank God most people are relatively good natured. When I heard of those rednecks in Texas dragging that poor African-American male from the back of their pickup.EVIL.

Edited by Cerebro (11/14/06 05:42 AM)

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Cerebro]
    #6233640 - 11/01/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

pee wee herman

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6233714 - 11/01/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It seems that you all seem to know what pure evil is... heh


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6233772 - 11/01/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Newbie]
    #6233785 - 11/01/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

lol


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #6233809 - 11/01/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You, me, him, her.. Deep down we are all pure evil, you just haven't realized it yet. :wink:


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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #6233991 - 11/01/06 05:29 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The American Government

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Re: What do you think "Pure Evil" really is? [Re: Toad_Stool]
    #6234294 - 11/01/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Holy, this is an old thread, I have my opinion about what evil is, but I'm not saying its the only "evil" out there.


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