Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinenakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6165722 - 10/13/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Science says: If a paper document held inside the pocket/luggage of a person who flies a 747 jet into a building, it will float down the street to safety.  :rolleyes:




this is a ridiculous statement.

there have been countless occasions were total destruction was waged all around the lone figure of a single untouched article.  Fires have burned down houses leaving toys completely unscathed whilst the whole has has been destroyed. 

There have been plain crashes where every single person on the plain is killed but one traveler who is completely free of injury.

there have been instances where a people have been expelled from plains and fallen twenty seven thousands feet to the most assured death only to live.

don't pretend to know so much a bout physics when you can't account the for the dynamics any given situation is likely to be affected by.


--------------------
Asshole

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6165911 - 10/13/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Care to show me some examples of these things?

We are not talking about a house burning down.

Show me an example where a 747 jet full of fuel flew into a building and a single document floated to the ground. Oh yeah, the "terrorist" passport no less.

I don't buy it.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6165980 - 10/13/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Science says: If a paper document held inside the pocket/luggage of a person who flies a 747 jet into a building, it will float down the street to safety.  :rolleyes:




Yes, science says that there is a chance that a paper document inside an airplane that flies into a building can escape and float safely down to the street.  And guess what: alpha decay happens as well... for some of the same reasons.  Science is not always intuitive and often does not make sense on the surface... and it isn't even a conspiracy.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6165993 - 10/13/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Show me an example where a 747 jet full of fuel flew into a building and a single document floated to the ground. Oh yeah, the "terrorist" passport no less.



I can't find any examples of a 747 (outside of 9/11), but then, how often do 747s fly into buildings?

However, in the recent air crash in New York, which was described as generating a "ball of fire", though obviously on a smaller scale, the pilot's passport survived. You can check that out here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6042306.stm?ls

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6166005 - 10/13/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> Show me an example where a 747 jet full of fuel flew into a building

Uh... since there are only two examples of 747s full of fuel flying into buildings, I can only offer you two examples.  :nono:

> Oh yeah, the "terrorist" passport no less.

Where was the terrorist with the passport?  What was the first part of the plane to hit the building?  Where are the fuel tanks?  Does the plane immediately burn to cinders, or is there an explosion?  What happens to stuff during an explosion, does it all come together or does it all spread apart?  Where was the terrorist that had the passport again?  And what part of the plane would have broken apart first as it contacted the building?  Where do people usually keep their passport while traveling?  If you expected anything to survive, where would you expect it to come from: the very front of the plane, the very tail of the plane, or somewhere right around the gas tanks/center of the plane?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Economist]
    #6166111 - 10/13/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
You directed everyone's attention to the 4th pic from 9/15 on the page you linked. [...] While it definitely is a picture of where WTC 7 was, there's smoke obscuring where most of the debris is located (to the South, as the building listed that way as it collapsed).


You conveniently chose to ignore the other pics I directed your attention to. Take, for instance, the one but last pic from the next day. On the far left, you can see where the southern end of WTC7's debris ends. As you can see, Vesey Street, which was the southern boundary of WTC7, is almost clear. It's not obstructed by a major pile of debris, as it would have been if the southward tilt of the building had been significant.

Quote:

Are you still trying to claim that you can tell *through the smoke mind you* how much of that debris belongs to WTC 7 and how much belonged to the towers?


I didn't think I would have to point this out to you, but obviously I do. The last of the Twin towers to collapse did so some 7 hours prior to WTC7. I think by that time, all its debris had found time to fall to the ground. So, logically, the WTC7 rubble should be lying on top of the North tower debris. Besides, the North tower debris didn't make it much further than 7, it's the outer boundary of WTC1's debris field, so that would not make for a very high stack. So obviously, the big heap of debris you see in the footprint of 7 (9/16, last pic) obviously belongs to that one. All North tower debris this far from its origin is simply lying at ground level.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Aldous]
    #6166148 - 10/13/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
You conveniently chose to ignore the other pics I directed your attention to. Take, for instance, the one but last pic from the next day. On the far left, you can see where the southern end of WTC7's debris ends. As you can see, Vesey Street, which was the southern boundary of WTC7, is almost clear. It's not obstructed by a major pile of debris, as it would have been if the southward tilt of the building had been significant.



I'm sorry you feel that I'm purposefully ignoring anything. I really am just looking at the photos that you direct me to. Looking at the two photos from the next day:


Again, I see a lot of smoke and a lot of intermixed debris. You are right, in that the outline of the streets is clear, but the debris is just that: debris. There are bits of steel poking up, down, left, right, etc. It's impossible to tell what fell down and penetrated lower debris, what's poking up from underneith, etc.

Quote:

Aldous said:
The last of the Twin towers to collapse did so some 7 hours prior to WTC7. I think by that time, all its debris had found time to fall to the ground. So, logically, the WTC7 rubble should be lying on top of the North tower debris.



I don't disagree, but look at those pictures. Debris isn't lying in neat uniform sheets, it's jutting in every imaginable direction. How much of it is poking up from underneath vs. resting on top?

Personally, I don't think it's possible to tell from thsoe pictures, but I'll let anyone who wants to try judge for themselves.

Quote:

Aldous said:Besides, the North tower debris didn't make it much further than 7, it's the outer boundary of WTC1's debris field, so that would not make for a very high stack. So obviously, the big heap of debris you see in the footprint of 7 (9/16, last pic) obviously belongs to that one. All North tower debris this far from its origin is simply lying at ground level.



Ah, but when you examine the last pic from 9/16 (the second pic I linked above), even if we are to assume that the large pile of debris is all WTC 7, you can see that it clearly fell to the south of the footprint. You can see the very edge of the black-and-white striped building, which as was pointed out before, lies to the north, and you can see that the pile seems to grow thicker as you travel south.

Combine this with what was already stated in this thread: that WTC 7 collapsed to the south as it went down, and it no longer seems to even resemble the results of controlled demolition.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Economist]
    #6166280 - 10/13/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
you can see that it clearly fell to the south of the footprint.


If it had actually fallen to the south, the highest pile of debris would completely obstruct Vesey street, or there would at least be some significant debris there. You just admitted there was hardly any debris on Vesey street, which marks the southern edge of WTC7. What more can I say? How can you maintain the tower fell significantly southward while at the same time admitting there's hardly any debris past the southern boundary of the footprint?  :confused:
Quote:

You can see the very edge of the black-and-white striped building, which as was pointed out before, lies to the north, and you can see that the pile seems to grow thicker as you travel south.


...to the middle of the footprint. The pile then completely stops at Vesey street. Conclusion: the pile is pretty much exactly in WTC7's footprint. Stop nitpicking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Aldous]
    #6166726 - 10/13/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You just admitted there was hardly any debris on Vesey street, which marks the southern edge of WTC7. What more can I say? How can you maintain the tower fell significantly southward while at the same time admitting there's hardly any debris past the southern boundary of the footprint?




Gee... you think in the week or so that passed from the collapse to the time the picture was taken, they might have tried to clear any rubble off Vesey Street first? So they could, you know, actually get vehicles other than helicopters through?

Use some common sense for once.




Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Phred]
    #6166864 - 10/13/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

You just admitted there was hardly any debris on Vesey street, which marks the southern edge of WTC7. What more can I say? How can you maintain the tower fell significantly southward while at the same time admitting there's hardly any debris past the southern boundary of the footprint?




Gee... you think in the week or so that passed from the collapse to the time the picture was taken, they might have tried to clear any rubble off Vesey Street first? So they could, you know, actually get vehicles other than helicopters through?

Use some common sense for once.




Phred




You are such a quaint dreamer I almost want to hug you and protect you from these mean people.

Hmmm, a tiny plane laden with fuel crashes into a building in Manhattan and 100% of the passports on board are found on the street. It is obviously a government plant to discredit the argument of the stupid brigade. With his wife's cooperation, of course, the neocon enabler that she is.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Economist]
    #6166903 - 10/13/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

@GabbaDJ

Please take an economics class before you sound silly again. Law suits do nothing to diminish the value of the dollar, only changes to the money supply, or changes in demand of dollars do that. Since a law suit simply involves money changing hands, it neither results in a reduction in the money supply, nor in a change in demand for dollars.

A better plan (and one that would actually work) would be for the Federal Reserve to maintain elevated interest rates (remember the big cuts wouldn't come until after 9/11), rather than blow up some buildings...




@Economist

Please take a class on reading comprehension before you make an ass of yourself..  I said nothing about lawsuits diminishing the value of the dollar. 

Please re-read what I said correctly and see that your statement actually agrees with me when you say that weak demand for dollars diminishes its value. 

Ill bet you didnt know that just before 9/11 and our invasion of Iraq, several Mideast countries, and also North Korea switched from buying and selling oil in US Dollars and began to buy oil in Euros.  Venezuela, Syria, Iran have also or are close too doing so.  If more countries follow then we will be in some serious trouble.

Good thing that we had the largest terrorist attack on US soil to clear the way for us to go in and put a stop to this. :rolleyes:


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6166951 - 10/13/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

NOTHING and NOBODY can explain with ANY evidence shown, the fuel, the fire, the big hole ect. Why all four corners right and left as well as the center fell straight down, all at the same time..

I will admit that a combination of any and all of those factors would cause a partial collapse, even eventually a total collapse but not in the way we all saw it fall.

And I never said that it all fell nice and neat, just that all of it fell straight down, all at the same time. sure it fell on top of other buildings and made a big mess but its painfully easy to see that something knocked out all of the lower supports, all within one second of each other and nothing anyone has said cones even close to being able to cause that.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6167253 - 10/13/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NOTHING and NOBODY can explain with ANY evidence shown, the fuel, the fire, the big hole ect. Why all four corners right and left as well as the center fell straight down, all at the same time..




Jesus Christ on a crutch, man... can you not read?

The big hole is explained by the fact that debris from the towers hit WTC7. How hard is that to grasp, fa cryin' out loud?

And as has been made abundantly clear from videos of the collapse -- links to which videos have been posted here several times -- all four corners left and right did NOT fall at the same time. The stills from the videos show that, as do the videos themselves watched in slow motion.

If it all collapsed simultaneously, you might have a leg to stand on. Maybe. But it didn't, and your continued insistence it did shows a stubborn refusal to admit reality. Your prerogative, of course. This is America, after all, and every American has the right to be wrong. Just don't expect the rest of us to follow suit.

The fuel and the fire have been amply explained. Why do you have such a hard time believing the building caught fire? Buildings catch fire all the time... even buildings which haven't been showered by flaming debris.

Quote:

...its painfully easy to see that something knocked out all of the lower supports, all within one second of each other ...




Please give me the name and address of your weed dealer, because I would dearly love to buy whatever you took that lets you see that. It sure as hell doesn't look like that in any of the videos I have seen posted here.



Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Phred]
    #6167515 - 10/13/06 11:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

f it all collapsed simultaneously, you might have a leg to stand on. Maybe. But it didn't, and your continued insistence it did shows a stubborn refusal to admit reality. Your prerogative, of course. This is America, after all, and every American has the right to be wrong. Just don't expect the rest of us to follow suit.




Ok, what exactly is your definition of "simultaneously"?

One second? Two seconds apart? Im going to have to say that my definition of "simultaneously" would have to include the time it took for every far corner of that building to begin their collapse which is less than two seconds.

Which you can see in any of the videos in this thread.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

Edited by GabbaDj (10/13/06 11:17 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6167629 - 10/14/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ok, what exactly is your definition of "simultaneously"?




I'll accept your first definition as being close enough -- "within one second" of each other. I don't see them going within one second of each other. Not on any of the videos I have seen so far.

You seem to have convinced yourself that the building didn't collapse on its own -- that it was deliberately brought down with demolition charges. It has been established from the reports of the men on the scene -- the firefighters -- that no one went into the building and planted charges while they were there. So if the building collapsed due to demolition charges, those charges must have been planted before the planes hit the towers.

Is that your position? That the charges were in place in WTC7 before the planes hit the towers? Because if it is your position, I want you to think the rest of it through before making your next post.



Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Phred]
    #6168340 - 10/14/06 09:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Is that your position? That the charges were in place in WTC7 before the planes hit the towers? Because if it is your position, I want you to think the rest of it through before making your next post.




Yes, yes it is. Why is it soo hard to believe?


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Phred]
    #6168473 - 10/14/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Gee... you think in the week or so that passed from the collapse to the time the picture was taken, they might have tried to clear any rubble off Vesey Street first? So they could, you know, actually get vehicles other than helicopters through?


Sure they might have done that, they probably did, even though I see no bulldozers on those pics. But this supports my point exactly. If they were able to clear Vesey street in just a few days, the rubble there must have been marginal, nothing like the stories high mound of debris one can see within the footprint of the building. Hence, WTC7 fell pretty neatly in its footprint. Anyone with eyes in their heads can see that. Or do you think that mountain of debris was on Vesey street until they pushed it north a little to restore traffic?

Edited by Aldous (10/14/06 10:19 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Aldous]
    #6168594 - 10/14/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

it isn't the size of the pile, its the size of the force of men sent to remove it.


--------------------
Asshole

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #6168881 - 10/14/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Right, but if the building had fallen southwards, and all the debris was on Vesey street and even further south, and they immediately sent a huge crowd of men to remove it, where does that stories-high and nicely shaped pile of debris right in 7's footprint come from?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTC 7 Help Me Understand [Re: Aldous]
    #6169062 - 10/14/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Right, but if the building had fallen southwards, and all the debris was on Vesey street and even further south, and they immediately sent a huge crowd of men to remove it, where does that stories-high and nicely shaped pile of debris right in 7's footprint come from?




No one is saying there was no debris inside the building's footprint, just that the collapse started in the most likely place as described by the fire crew on the scene -- the bulge partway up the southwest corner. Of course the great majority of debris from the collapse will still be within the building's footprint, duh. That will always be the case. No one is claiming "all" the debris was on Vesey Street. Try to read what is written for a change.

Only a fool would fail to grasp the reason there is no longer any debris on Vesey Street in a picture taken almost a week later is that whatever portion of debris fell on that street would be cleared away FIRST. Pretty hard to work effectively on a site you can't reach. Any foreman who didn't make clearing the streets his first priority would be fired immediately.


Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* WTC 911 Fires - Not So Hot, Eh?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
usefulidiot 10,763 189 01/27/05 11:11 AM
by CJay
* New Seismic Data Refutes Official Explanation Of WTC Collapses usefulidiot 6,466 15 05/08/06 09:28 AM
by Turn
* WTC Rescue Workers Silenced After Black Box Discovery
( 1 2 all )
usefulidiot 3,234 24 12/19/04 11:11 PM
by Rose
* Millionaire Offers $100,000 For Scientific Proof WTC Towers Collapsed As Bush Administration Claims
( 1 2 all )
ekomstop 4,975 37 12/16/04 08:29 PM
by ekomstop
* No Justification for the WTC Bombings?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Ravus 4,977 83 11/12/04 02:23 PM
by Phluck
* Understanding UFO Secrecy
( 1 2 3 all )
exclusive58 3,271 43 10/26/05 12:52 AM
by _Aegis_
* WTC 7: How did it fall?
( 1 2 all )
SquattingMarmot 2,454 26 01/04/04 02:16 PM
by iamhimheisme
* 9/11 update on Silverstein's insurance claim
( 1 2 all )
Hank, FTW 2,629 24 11/06/06 03:54 PM
by zappaisgod

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
6,497 topic views. 2 members, 3 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 15 queries.