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OfflinemotamanM
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Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD
    #6157288 - 10/11/06 10:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.nysun.com/article/41305

Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD

BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
October 11, 2006
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/41305

An alleged operative for Al Qaeda imprisoned for 3 1/2 years as an enemy combatant is saying he was tortured and forcibly medicated with "a sort of truth serum" while in a Navy brig.

Jose Padilla, 35, was arrested in 2002 on suspicions that he was plotting a radioactive explosion, also known as a dirty bomb. He spent several years in a military jail in Charleston, S.C., without facing criminal charges. As legal wrangling over his fate continued, prosecutors in Miami charged him late last year with providing material support to a terrorist group and conspiring to murder, maim, and kidnap Americans abroad.

Lawyers for Padilla, who was born in Brooklyn and converted to Islam while in prison for gang-related crimes, made the claims of torture in a motion filed last week with a federal court in Florida.

"He was threatened with being cut with a knife and having alcohol poured on the wounds. He was also threatened with imminent execution," the chief federal defender in Miami, Michael Caruso, wrote. "Additionally, Padilla was given drugs against his will, believed to be some form of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) or phencyclidine (PCP), to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations."

Padilla's attorneys argued that the alleged torture constitutes "outrageous government conduct" that requires that the criminal case against Padilla be dismissed. Judge Marcia Cooke has already dropped one of the charges against Padilla, but he could still be sentenced to life in prison on the other charges. The trial has been delayed until next January, at the earliest.

A top Al Qaeda leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, reportedly admitted during interrogations that he tasked Padilla with locating radioactive materials and scouting out locations for a dirty bomb. However, the pending indictment against Padilla makes no mention of such a plot.

A spokesman for the Navy referred questions about Padilla's treatment to the Justice Department. Prosecutors handling the case did not respond to calls seeking comment for this article.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: motaman]
    #6157360 - 10/11/06 10:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

"Additionally, Padilla was given drugs against his will, believed to be some form of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) or phencyclidine (PCP), to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations."




Sorry, but I don't buy it. This may fly for the general public that thinks of truth serum as portrayed by Hollywood, but the reality is much, much different.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: Seuss]
    #6158592 - 10/11/06 04:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Didn't you see that one Steven Segall movie? The CIA and other government agencies use chemical torture and "truth serums" all the time.

Seriously though, I wouldn't put it past them. Why wouldn't they? They have access to hundreds of quality mind-bending drugs that could surely crack the hardest minds. I'm sure you're aware that they've done similar experiments using LSD on soldiers in the past. That's all been proven and admitted. So why wouldn't you think they would feel justified using something similar on a hated heemy of the state?


-FF


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InvisibleTheWay
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: fastfred]
    #6158724 - 10/11/06 04:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I believe it, if they would stack 'em in human pyramids naked and let peppermint patty sexually abuse them, who's to say they wouldnt dose them on something. Probably not as a truth syrum, but just to mess with them and terrorize them.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: fastfred]
    #6158732 - 10/11/06 05:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Because it was ineffective. The LSD testings in MK-Ultra were a failure.

"This may fly for the general public that thinks of truth serum as portrayed by Hollywood, but the reality is much, much different. "

Well, they have indeed done it, Hollywood style. The idea that prisoners are drugged is no stretch, just the part about LSD being used. It'd be extremely useful for mental torture though. I think the Hollywood factor that doesn't fit here is: The crappy sequel that uses the exact same formula as the original.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6159853 - 10/11/06 10:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly. A warm sunny day at a park can turn into a bad trip. Just imagine how bad of a trip it would be if you were being interrogated by some asshole with no holds barred? Nightmarish, hellish set and setting while totally sober.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
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Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBobDole
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: dblaney]
    #6160275 - 10/12/06 12:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

this guy deserves the worst that the US government can throw at him. This is the whole reason why we are inefective in iraq, we are being held to standards when these camel fuckers have a free for all. Given the chance, these motherfuckers would brutally murder you, me, our families, and all our loved ones without feeling an ounce of guilt. U can't win a war trying to play fair when the enemy is not playing fair. If we took terrorists and puplicly and humiliatingly executed them and there families and stuck their remains in a jar of pickled pigs feet and did it to anyone else who threatens our nation i guarentee that this shit would end fast. Mabe not the first time, but as soon as they see that we meen business they'll quit. These assholes may not give a shit about themselves but i'm sure they don't want to see there families suffer. If you recall, the US ended shit quick in Japan with a-bombs. We made an example of Hiroshima, and it scared them but they didn't give up. But as soon as we showed that we were serious when we dropped another in Nagasaki, they gave up. This proves my point that it takes something drastic to happen if you want to see results. I'm sick of these terrorists being treated like US citizens. If you got captured in iraq, do you think they'd give you a trial? No. U'd have your head cut off on tv so the rest of the country can laugh at you. The US needs to stop being politically correct and put an end to this ridiculous war.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: BobDole]
    #6161511 - 10/12/06 12:02 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Well you see, the US signed this thing called the Geneva Accords, which holds the US to certain standards established during the Geneva Conventions. These aren't rules we can pick and choose about. We are all human beings, and we need to treat eachother like such. Just because they don't treat us like humans always by no means means that we should treat them as such. That's a complete non-sequitor and irrelevant analogy. Furthermore, if you think this is the only reason why we are ineffective in Iraq, then you really need to educate yourself man.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: BobDole]
    #6161619 - 10/12/06 12:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BobDole said:
this guy deserves the worst that the US government can throw at him. This is the whole reason why we are inefective in iraq, we are being held to standards when these camel fuckers have a free for all. Given the chance, these motherfuckers would brutally murder you, me, our families, and all our loved ones without feeling an ounce of guilt. U can't win a war trying to play fair when the enemy is not playing fair. If we took terrorists and puplicly and humiliatingly executed them and there families and stuck their remains in a jar of pickled pigs feet and did it to anyone else who threatens our nation i guarentee that this shit would end fast. Mabe not the first time, but as soon as they see that we meen business they'll quit. These assholes may not give a shit about themselves but i'm sure they don't want to see there families suffer. If you recall, the US ended shit quick in Japan with a-bombs. We made an example of Hiroshima, and it scared them but they didn't give up. But as soon as we showed that we were serious when we dropped another in Nagasaki, they gave up. This proves my point that it takes something drastic to happen if you want to see results. I'm sick of these terrorists being treated like US citizens. If you got captured in iraq, do you think they'd give you a trial? No. U'd have your head cut off on tv so the rest of the country can laugh at you. The US needs to stop being politically correct and put an end to this ridiculous war.




"An alleged operative"

Alleged. Maybe one day you'll be an alleged something or other, and there will be complete justification to torture the living fuck out of you? There's a reason we have god damn courts of law. You let your emotion get a hold of you, as you clearly have, and you're a terrorist yourself, congrats.

"It is justified to step on their soil and torture/murder them because they stepped on our soil, and attacked, killing our citizens."

Sounds a fuck of a lot like,

"It is justified to step on their soil and attack them, killing their citizens, because they've been fucking around in our region for decades with only selfish intentions in mind."

Neither is justified. Ethnocentric asshole. The problem with an eye for an eye, is that both sides will feel their revenge is justified. But, on the other hand, you can look at the people who poked the first eye. No, the first eye was not the WTC.
"S


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineBobDole
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6162127 - 10/12/06 03:03 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Have you ever lost half your family in a terrorist attack? Did this war effect you in any other way besides giving you the oppertunity to spread your treehugging opinion around? Anyone from a military backround knows that it is damn near impossible to win a war when your held to high standards and the enemy isn't held to shit. Torture may be a bit too far, but something drastic does need to happen. Have you checked how much this war has costed us as a country? The expences raise about 1,000 US dollars every second. If we're fighting another country which is held to the standards of the Geneva Accords then we too should be following those rules, but when we're fighting a country like Iraq, a country which is dirt poor and has nothing to lose, we should be dominating them, not pussyfooting around. I'm sure if it was your dad that was in the video getting his head cut off you wouldn't be taking such a pussy liberal stand on things. What we've been doing in Iraq hasn't worked, and we need to start nutting up and ending this shit. A large part of our military is in Iraq, and if we ever get attacked on our own soil we're gonna be missing that many more soldiers because people have to have such a liberal stance on things. Even without nuclear weapons, if we were to do like the Nazis did in London and just drop thousands of bombs on these fucks this shit would end. And don't you dare call me a terrorist again you cocksucker Koala. Its assholes like you that make this country the laughing stalk among the world. We're in a war with Iraq. How stupid does that sound? It shouldn't be a war, we should be dominating those motherfuckers.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: BobDole]
    #6162173 - 10/12/06 03:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

*laughing stock


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6162640 - 10/12/06 05:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"Have you ever lost half your family in a terrorist attack? Did this war effect you in any other way besides giving you the oppertunity to spread your treehugging opinion around?"

You're being completely illogical. I realize your emotion gets the better of you. So what? That's no excuse. When you allow troops to go around murdering and torturing innocent people (in addition to the guilty) you're creating a situation where more people will hate you, and see it justified that they in turn murder your people. AKA: The exact fucking thing you're experiencing.

"Have you checked how much this war has costed us as a country? The expences raise about 1,000 US dollars every second."

I won't argue with you there. If only there was something the region could offer those who take control of it... like valuable natural resources. There's no doubt the war is putting the overall country into debt, but that doesn't apply to certain already wealthy individuals.

"but when we're fighting a country like Iraq, a country which is dirt poor and has nothing to lose"

Except a ridiculous amount of oil we're after? When we divide Iraq into multiple states, we'll ensure many more generations of war between those states, and justify a continued presence and foothold in the region. If they had nothing to lose, we wouldn't be there.

"Even without nuclear weapons, if we were to do like the Nazis did in London and just drop thousands of bombs on these fucks this shit would end."

Not even close. If that were the case, we'd have done it. Where are you suggesting the bombs be dropped? Every city in every country in the middle east? Do you have any idea what this would do to world economics and politics? This isn't a matter of morals, or conservative vs. liberal. This is simply a matter of intelligence. No intelligent person, no matter how much of a greedy republican would ever be fooled into thinking that the situation is as simple as you've laid out.

I suppose if we did that we'd be rounding up every muslim in the US, off to the death camps, as well as everyone else who doesn't support the genocide? At this point we'd probably withdraw from the UN. And, additionally, we'd need to be prepared to fight the new alliance that forms against us. I do see why you gave the Nazi example. You like them tactics, eh?

"And don't you dare call me a terrorist again you cocksucker Koala."

You're a terrorist.

You're a terrorist by my standards, and you're a terrorist by the standards you've applied to others. You're a terrorist. Maybe you're only a passive terrorist, with little impact. Or, for all I know you're a successful information terrorist (you've presented the standard skills needed to be one. Learn the ancient art of the paragraph and maybe you can write for Fox?). You're a terrorist for supporting the terrorist actions of any of your family members who have tortured or killed innocent civilians.

If you're not a terrorist, fine. Neither are the people who flew planes into buildings. Bit of a double standard you've got going.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Al Qaeda Suspect: U.S. Government Gave Me LSD [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6163070 - 10/12/06 07:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Stop the flaming or I will ban each of the offenders from this forum for the next 3 days. It's okay to have a discussion here folks, but keep it civilized. Thank you.


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OfflinemotamanM
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LSD Mystery: DoD Slow To Release Padilla's Medical Records [Re: motaman]
    #6163505 - 10/12/06 09:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001790.php




LSD Mystery: DoD Slow To Release Padilla's Medical Records
By Justin Rood - October 12, 2006, 3:16 PM

I finally had a chance to speak with Orlando do Campo, a public defender representing Jose Padilla, about his allegation that government interrogators forced Padilla to take drugs similar to LSD and PCP.

Do Campo declined to be more specific about the effects Padilla has described that make the lawyer believe his client was given those illegal hallucinogens, or how many times the alleged terrorist says he was drugged. But do Campo said that more information may come out soon -- if the Defense Department complies with an order from the judge hearing the case.

Early this year, do Campo said, Padilla's legal team asked the Defense Department to turn over Padilla's medical records from his detention at the brig of the Naval Weapons Station in Charleston, S.C. The government resisted, but the judge ordered them to comply. Several months later, do Campo still has not seen a single page of those records.

If Padilla was given drugs of any kind, one could expect them to be recorded in those files. Is that why the Defense Department is having a hard time turning those documents over?


--------------------
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OfflinemotamanM
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Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: motaman]
    #6163514 - 10/12/06 09:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001785.php

Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations?
By Justin Rood - October 12, 2006, 10:53 AM

Old-fashioned journalists have a term for bizarre, interesting and/or disturbing little articles -- "Hey Mabel" stories, they call them. And the New York Sun's Josh Gerstein had a doozy of a "Hey Mabel" in yesterday's paper.

In a new court filing on behalf of alleged dirty bomber Jose Padilla, his lawyers allege that government interrogators forced him to take LSD, Gerstein reported.

"Additionally, Padilla was given drugs against his will, believed to be some form of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) or phencyclidine (PCP), to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations," he quotes the filing.

Now, There are some important details that aren't explained: Padilla's lawyers don't say what effects the prisoner reported to make them conclude it was LSD or PCP, nor do they report how many times such a drug or drugs were administered. And as any self-respecting child of the D.A.R.E era knows, LSD and PCP typically produce wildly different behavior (neither of which is particularly helpful if you're trying to get information out of someone).

Still -- if their charge is accurate, it's disturbing and bizarre. Of course, the U.S. government pioneered research into LSD in particular in the 1950s and 60s. CIA officers even tested the drug by surruptitiously dosing each other, leading at least one acid-tripping spook to run in a paranoid frenzy through Washington D.C. and over a bridge into Virginia, where his co-workers later found him cowering under a fountain.

But through experiences like this, the government concluded the drug was worthless as an interrogation tool, a means to "flip" Communist agents, or anything else their Cold War minds had feverishly dreamed possible. Is it possible that they're experimenting with mind drugs again? That sounds completely outlandish. But when you look at history, and then look at the Padilla filing, it's hard to rule out.

I've called three members of Padilla's legal team multiple times in an attempt to get more details, but have gotten nowhere. Can this be real?


--------------------
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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: motaman]
    #6163873 - 10/12/06 11:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


And as any self-respecting child of the D.A.R.E era knows, LSD and PCP typically produce wildly different behavior






Man, people really are brainwashed about this stuff


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: demiu5]
    #6164116 - 10/13/06 12:12 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Well, they're brain washed. But I think it's surprising to find the claim that DARE will teach you that there's any difference at all.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineHongkongaton
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Re: Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6166637 - 10/13/06 07:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

All DARE does is teach you all the names of the "cool" chemicals that older kids take. And leaves you waiting until you can try, thanks cop for all the info:)


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InvisibleDa_Vine
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Re: Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: Hongkongaton]
    #6166814 - 10/13/06 08:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

you wont open up to just anybody on pcp, not only that but if they did give him pcp im sure it backfired.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Is U.S. Government Using LSD for Interrogations? [Re: Da_Vine]
    #6171811 - 10/15/06 03:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

PCP gives you supper human strength coupled with an I-don't-give-a-fuck attitude. You will jump out of windows thinking you can fly and then punch your hand right through the ambulance windshield when they come to rescue you.

That's if I remember correctly the stories I heard growing up...

LSD might be an effective torture tool though, and one that would not leave any visible scars. Dose a prisoner and then threaten to kill him or his kids unless he confesses. It seems you could increase the psychological intensity of the torture a hundred fold with a hundred or so micrograms of LSD.


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