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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Icelander]
#6151099 - 10/09/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Compassion:sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I agree with redtailedhawk, those with open hearts do not require laws/punishment OR guilt/shame to guide their actions. Compassion and pro-active awareness would preclude unethical actions. If only out of enlightened self-interest (i.e. "I do not like the way I feel when I engage in the promotion of negativity."), we would refrain from harmful actions, and consider the potential harm of our choices.
Guilt and shame are lower-level emotional states, which seem to relate more to the early development of punishment-avoidance morality. Rather than consider the wisdom of the heart, they encourage us to judge the self--"I was bad." If we act unskillfully, and experience the results of our actions through empathy, we will be educated rather than ashamed. "That action was not in alignment with my values, and I did not like the empathic experience which followed."
For me, the question comes down to what is more empowering: self-reproach and judgment, or open-hearted learning from our occasional mistakes? I have NEVER felt empowered by judgment. Physically, it feels like a heavy foot stepping on my chest. Mentally, it runs in a tape-loop of negative mantras. Emotionally, it evokes dread and sadness. Imposing these states upon oneself is punitive, not educational or enlightening.
With my young sons, I refrain from saying "you were bad," and instead discuss their mistakes. "This was a mistake, what would have been a better choice in this situation?" is a great discussion-opener, and leaves out the heavy emotional drama. The action is our topic, not the person, and we are able to collaborate on other ways to deal with a similar situation in the future.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Veritas]
#6151177 - 10/09/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6151367 - 10/09/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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and I took the position that was not defendable in the end. I now see that guilt and shame do not have a healthy place in our lives in any way.
Thanks to all for a great discussion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Hoss
Stranger


Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 297
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Icelander]
#6152540 - 10/09/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's terrible.
Just reading your story made me sad.
You didn't just jolt her nerves, and embarrass her. You genuinely frightened her. What for? You saw her initial reaction to you approaching her with the spider, but you decided to go even further, and ended up going way too far.
Then you see her later on, trying to resume her duties, but still haunted by the experience and overcome by emotions, yet you somehow fail to atleast apologize to her.
It was a malicious and monster of a thing to do.
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cupevampe
The Lunatic isin My Head


Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Mixomatosis]
#6153354 - 10/10/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would say it's never too late for an apology. Usually it still works, even if delayed, and it is most welcome if it comes from the heart.
It will most likely surprise her if u apologize with such a delay, but it will be a positive surprise.
I often do like that... i mean maybe i hurt someone, or i feel i might have hurt someone... don't say anything in the beginning because i'm shy... then maybe the day after i collect all my strenght and go and apologize and explain i felt so bad for what i did. Everyone is happier then.
-------------------- My Blog: The Invisible Landscape Subscribe this great podcast! www.matrixmasters.com/podcasts No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction. PS: sorry 4 my english - i'm italian *-*-* i do my best!
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Mixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Hoss]
#6153767 - 10/10/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, she's long gone now, and I'll probably never see her again. Isn't it terrible? I'm going to hell.
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redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery


Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Icelander]
#6154535 - 10/10/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Thanks to all for a great discussion.
Yes. We did good.
Drinks anyone?
--------------------
"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery


Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
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Re: I made a grown woman cry [Re: Mixomatosis]
#6154545 - 10/10/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mixomatosis said: Isn't it terrible? I'm going to hell.
We will remember you in our hearts.
--------------------
"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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For a short while.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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