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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Economist]
    #6151561 - 10/09/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Again, should we pretend that messages like "Turn the other cheek" are bad pieces of advice because large parts of the Bible cannot be proven?




No, but the idea that all the bad things are a test of faith is really BAD for all of society, if most people just think god makes things suck, so you better just grin and bear it, that leads to really bad outcomes, IMO)


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Silversoul]
    #6152413 - 10/09/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:I love how you keep talking about how great logic and science are, when you clearly don't know shit about either of them.




I know enough to see that any notion of god is laughable... and anyone who thinks otherwise is commiting the biggest logical error of all.

Call me when the rapture starts, and then maybe I'll rethink my position.

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6152670 - 10/09/06 11:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I know enough to see that any notion of god is laughable... and anyone who thinks otherwise is commiting the biggest logical error of all.



Well thats were I disagree, because countless great thikers belived in god.

Personally I am leaning towards NO myself these days, but still.  :smirk:
And besides, no one would call what I think to be god, ..god, well no organized religon would.  :tongue:

Its an abused word anyway  :smirk:


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (10/09/06 11:56 PM)

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OfflineShattered

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 332
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6153360 - 10/10/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
Quote:

Again, should we pretend that messages like "Turn the other cheek" are bad pieces of advice because large parts of the Bible cannot be proven?




No, but the idea that all the bad things are a test of faith is really BAD for all of society, if most people just think god makes things suck, so you better just grin and bear it, that leads to really bad outcomes, IMO)




But who's idea was that? I didn't really get that meaning from the bible. How can God be responsible for bad. If bad is the absence of good, and God is good, is he responsible for the absence of a negative part of himself? That's like asking God to apologise for being good. Bad exists outside of God.

The bad in life isn't a test of faith, it is what it is, which is all that is not God. When I see bad things happen I don't see God, I see the absence of God. There's no faith needed in that. Like no one needs to prove to me that God doesn't exist, I can see proof that God doesn't exist any time I like, so what, if I want proof that God doesn't exist all I have to do is see what's wrong in the world, if I want to see that God exists all I have to do is see the good. I've experienced the absence of God in both experience and belief, as many times as i've experienced and believed in God.

And I don't know about grinning and bearing badness in life. Should God remove the bad in my life? If I choose not to be selfish, am I then responsible for selfishness in others? Only they can choose not to selfish. God shouldn't be responsible for what he is not.

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Shattered]
    #6153456 - 10/10/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

God couldnt be a HE, if it, exists at all, IMO.
Further, why do some children get cancer at age 5, why doesnt god step in??
surely these children are innocent , and have done nothing to deserve this, so why?

and before you say god doesnt effect things, why is god even an issue if "he" doesnt effect things??

If IT exists at all, I belive IT has something to do with the the way the universe works, I have read enough books on quantum physics to see that there is alot of weirdness out there, but like humble spinoza, I dont belive god has anything to do with the petty affairs of men.

(IF :wink: , god exists )


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OfflineShattered

Registered: 01/26/05
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6153481 - 10/10/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To me that's explained in judgement.

We live in both states of the existance of God, the duality is in ourselves as much as it is in the outside. A child getting cancer is one state, a perfectly healthy child is another state of existance.

Judgement is the removal of duality, being identified with one or the other, or the finalisation of a removal of one state of awareness in favour of the other. You die, exist within God or without God, or even you die, and identify with death and that becomes your existance, or you identify with eternal life and that becomes your existance.

You're judged by the light you receive, weighed up against your life. One part of you dies, the other lives, good goes back to God, and bad goes back to wherever, free will is the association of your awareness with either state of self and you follow it wherever it goes.

Why is God an issue if he doesn't effect things? God doesn't effect things because we effect them, that's why God IS an issue, we reflect God (or not) into what we do and what we receive.

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OfflineColbadol
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Economist]
    #6153494 - 10/10/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:

Again, should we pretend that messages like "Turn the other cheek" are bad pieces of advice because large parts of the Bible cannot be proven?




...yes. Not just because they cant be proven, but because they are BULLSHIT!
You cant claim to live by one tiny little gem of a message which is surrounded and covered by utter bullshit. No one would disagree with that message being good, but the premise still stands.
Im not going to swim through and get covered in shit just to find your little message and cling to it like a floatation device. It's not reasonable.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Shattered]
    #6153520 - 10/10/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

good goes back to God, and bad goes back to wherever, free will is the association of your awareness with either state of self and you follow it wherever it goes.





Sorry that seems quitte different from FREE will.

Quote:

Judgement is the removal of duality, being identified with one or the other, or the finalisation of a removal of one state of awareness in favour of the other. You die, exist within God or without God, or even you die, and identify with death and that becomes your existance, or you identify with eternal life and that becomes your existance.




That just doesnt make sense, I mean I know what your saying, but there is no evidence of any kind to support that, its just faith.

Quote:

God doesn't effect things because we effect them, that's why God IS an issue, we reflect God (or not) into what we do and what we receive.



We reflect god??
or not?
How so?

Everyone is different, whats a good way to reflect god?? well first that doesnt make alot of sense to me, but if your reflecting god, well whos to say your right?
Your god, or book?
What about somone elses book??


People assuming that they are reflecting god leads to quite alot of violence.

Why not just say Jesus was a good man, hey lets actually help people rather then trying to convert anyone.  :grin:
What a concept!

WWJD?
he wouldnt waste his time, he would actually do something for others, of course personally I dont need jesus, at all, I have plenty of philosophy that teaches charity.
It works for me.  :smirk:


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (10/10/06 02:17 PM)

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Colbadol]
    #6153619 - 10/10/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Colbadol said:
You cant claim to live by one tiny little gem of a message which is surrounded and covered by utter bullshit. No one would disagree with that message being good, but the premise still stands.
Im not going to swim through and get covered in shit just to find your little message and cling to it like a floatation device. It's not reasonable.



Where is the bullshit? So far everything you guys are attacking appears in Genesis, 1 book in the Old Testament. Creationism doesn't even play into the Gospels.

Please actually read the Bible before you continue to attack a text you clearly do not understand. The Bible doesn't have "one tiny gem of a message", the message is both pervasive throughout the text as well as prolific.

The teachings of Jesus touch upon many topics and his messages are good across the board. The Gospels aren't just "Do unto others..." or "Turn the other cheek...". Jesus challenges us to forgive our enemies, to question unjust laws, to never cease being curious, to be tolerant of other races and other beliefs, not to hold the foolishness of another against them, not to blame people for being born the way they were.

These are lessons that you could very clearly learn from, given your obvious intollerance of people who believe differently than yourself.

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OfflineShattered

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 332
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Jesus/God/Religion [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #6153749 - 10/10/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
Sorry that seems quitte different from FREE will.




I can see how it looks like that. But it depends on what you see as God. If God is good and all of that, and bad can't exist within God, then it makes sense to me that i'm not going to be disappointed. One is endless possibility within all that is God (or all the good experiences we could choose to have via freewill), the other is death of freewill, imprisonment. In our life it's the difference between having an open and closed mind, you can accept reality as it is, life, death, or accept as it could be through belief. You use freewill to accept enternal life, rather than being imprisoned by what is reality, life, death.

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said: That just doesnt make sense, I mean I know what your saying, but there is no evidence of any kind to support that, its just faith.




What do we know about death and what lies beyond it? We see death in the way life dies around us, we know nothing exists after life because when things die, they don't return.

But there's still a duality, a paradox. We also know life after death exists, because of belief in good. If good exists, then there must be life after death, because hey i'd rather spend eternal life in a heavenly realm. So where does belief exist? It defies reality in every way, there is no eternal life because life after death does not exist in reality. When you think about it, belief could never exist in reality, because to be totally rid of death, you have to be totally seperate to reality which IS death.

It's again two states of being. One seperate from reality, and the other firmly rooted in reality. In belief our reality doesn't have to exist, or at least it can exist in whatever way we choose, and visa versa. Belief and reality is the difference between the physical realm and spiritual realm.

I don't think it's so much faith. I guess I believe that when you get down to the source of it, things exist in opposite states. Sure you have shades of grey, but essentially the two states are black and white. We're in one state where we're totally none the wiser as to what's after death, but the good thing about that is if it's possible to be aware of that other state which is the opposite of this one (death), then we'd be totally none the wiser as to what's beyond eternal life.

I guess it could be faith, but it's kinda more obsveration of life and how everything either is or it isn't.


Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said: We reflect god??
or not?
How so?

Everyone is different, what a good way to reflect god?? well first that doesnt make alot of sense to me, but if your reflecting good, well whos to say your right?
Your god, or book?
What about somone elses book??


People assuming that they are reflecting god leads to quite alot of violence.

Why not just say Jesus was a good man, hey lets actually help people rather then trying to convert anyone.  :grin:
What a concept!

WWJD?
he wouldnt waste his time, he would actually do something for others, of course personally I dont need jesus, at all, I have plenty of philosophy that teaches charity.
It works for me.  :smirk:




Good is of God, so when you do good, you reflect God into what you do. You give birth to a state of God existing in a situation where all that exists is bad.

Good to me is just that, you know when something is good or not. Some people believe homosexuality is bad, so not being homosexual must be good, but true good would be a state where homosexuality was also good. If I were homophobic, first i'd have to recognise that by being homophobic I was causing problems for others, then good to me is either a state where i'm not causing bad by being homophobic, or that i'm not homophobic. I don't know, good is what makes you feel good by doing or experiencing, or what you want to do and what you want to experience.

That's why i'm not into religion. They all say this is good and this isn't good. But it's a personal thing. God is just a word, my God could be mother nature to someone else. It's just a word to describe what you believe is truly good.

The thing about Jesus is that's what he was trying to do. He says you can't get to God except through him, so people think they have to believe in Jesus rather than some other figure in a religion, to get to God. Ok I can see where they're coming from but, Jesus said to become like him, he says 'I' am the way the truth and the light. He's talking about the Christ within ourselves, the closer we get to christ, the closer we get to God.

Some people call Christ other things, I don't see a lot of difference. It's pretty much open slather in my mind, I haven't been to church in over 15 years and i've learnt more about God and myself by doing that than I ever did. The bible even turns me off for the most part, but as I seem to learn more in life, I remember passages and see them differently, but I still can't read it.

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