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OfflineBloc
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Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization.
    #6153515 - 10/10/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, I'm know there are many posts on this, but I wanted to put my 2 cents.


Building an Ozone Generator is not difficult. Just a handful of components.

I've been thinking how one would sterilize a substrate with it. Here is my plan.

In the case of BSF and verm, one could use a FoodSaver device and vacuum seal the jars. Then you can transfer the jars to a glovebox that has a ozone generator inside, saturating the air inside with ozone. Once the jars are in and the air is filled with ozone, you can then lift the lids, flooding the jars with ozone.

Since microbes are much much larger then atoms (duh :P) the air would reach every nook and cranny inside the substrate. My thinking is that if air cant reach it, there cant be anything alive there. So the Ozone would get everything.

One can argue that the water might sheild some of the contaminates, but I don't think this is the case. A flim of water around a microbe will also oxidize, and it is known that pouring ozonated water over a surface will kill everything on it.  :matrix2:


I am going to try this, but i wanted some input. Anyone have anything to add or suggest?  :grin:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Bloc]
    #6153530 - 10/10/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

correct me if im wrong but ozone is just o3 ...and to my knowledge ....it is used to get smells out of the air...

i dont think o3 is a sterilizer..or would work in your experiment....if you really want to test it...get some mold going on some agar..pop it in the glove box filled with o3..and im pretty sure the mold will survive...

let me know what happens


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #6153576 - 10/10/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, Ozone IS used as a purifyer because it kills all single cell microbes

Quote from wiki

Industrially, ozone or ozonated water is used to

disinfect water before it is bottled;

deodorize air and objects, such as after a fire;

kill bacteria on food or on contact surfaces;

scrub yeast and mold spores from the air in food processing plants;
wash fresh fruits and vegetables to kill yeast, mold and bacteria;

So it Can be used for this. The trick is the saturation.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Bloc]
    #6153661 - 10/10/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hmmm...never heard of this...post some updates when you try it out....

putting an ozone generator in a sealed tub for a couple of hours will def saturate the air with o3  ...try it out with an agar slab like i suggested..tell us what happens
:bouncysmoke:


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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Bloc]
    #16446326 - 06/27/12 04:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Bump: I would like to know this myself, has anyone worked with ozone for sterile procedure?


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Seanfu]
    #22663087 - 12/16/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I am also interested if anyone has had results using ozone to sterilize substrates. Seems like a dead / obscure topic .

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Offlinedr phil
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22663107 - 12/16/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Substrates are not flat clean surfaces. You can't sterilize the inside of grain or dirt or poo or straw etc.. with anything other than heat.
Ozone is good for water air and already clean surfaces. Not organic matter

Nice work bumping a 3 and a 14 year old thread

Edited by dr phil (12/16/15 01:39 PM)

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22663575 - 12/16/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If you are saying that ozone will not penetrate a substrate especially when injected from below or within you are wrong. So i cant reply to an old thread? I didnt realize there was a limitation on here, especially for topics that have been abandoned due to lack of current information.

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Offlinedr phil
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22663731 - 12/16/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you make a new thread, maybe link to the old one. it died for a reason.

you can't sterilize grain with ozone. do it, and come back with results. I'll be waiting, until I die.

ozone will not penetrate organic matter, this is the same reason you can't use ethylene oxide(oxirane) to sterilize anything other than cleaned surfaces like glass metal and plastic. for instance you can't sterilize porous wood with oxirane or ozone. 

you can use ozone to treat sewage which has organic matter which may be where you get the idea from. Raw sewage however is made into an emulsion and the solids are filtered out.


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22664583 - 12/16/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Bro you know a bit to much bout shit haha


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: kushroom]
    #22664595 - 12/16/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Only thing I have seen that does not involve heat sterilize grains was ban rot


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22671579 - 12/18/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was specifically interested in sawdust. I also doubt grains could be done because of the solid outer shell... and i also wasnt referring to a big piece of wood! Sawdust however has a large porous surface area. Of course you dont even want to ask what i am referring to before you try to shut down the thread with your superior knowledge. Then again, Mr. Know-it-alls never ask questions do they? They only try to flaunt their superior university educated knowledge for all the world to stand in awe of. I've got news for you, nobody likes a Mr-know-it-all, especially a condesending one. I have also been using ozone successfully for things that are not even mentioned anywhere on shroomery because supposedly they cant be done,... but hey, you know better! You have a degree to prove it!

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22671592 - 12/18/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:uppercut:


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22671754 - 12/18/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nitrodigital said:
I was specifically interested in sawdust. I also doubt grains could be done because of the solid outer shell... and i also wasnt referring to a big piece of wood! Sawdust however has a large porous surface area. Of course you dont even want to ask what i am referring to before you try to shut down the thread with your superior knowledge. Then again, Mr. Know-it-alls never ask questions do they? They only try to flaunt their superior university educated knowledge for all the world to stand in awe of. I've got news for you, nobody likes a Mr-know-it-all, especially a condesending one. I have also been using ozone successfully for things that are not even mentioned anywhere on shroomery because supposedly they cant be done,... but hey, you know better! You have a degree to prove it!




I'd like to hear about your successes with ozone.


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22671796 - 12/18/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have some amazing results with sanitizing things with urine. I can't post picks or links or any proof but, you can trust me when I say it smells amazing :vato:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22676407 - 12/19/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

pm sent

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676418 - 12/19/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Is it just me or has your reply changed 3 times lol. Ninja edit master over here :ninja:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22676429 - 12/19/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

sorry trying to figure out how not to piss people off , i see you are as addicted to shroomery as i am .... :cool:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676451 - 12/19/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Good attitude...if ya get pissy walk away for a few minutes before replying...no rush here we are here everyday.


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Offlinedr phil
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22676460 - 12/19/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I know you were talking about sawdust, that's how mushroom growers use wood the majority of the time.
So, show me something that's not speculation. I'm not trying to be superior, I got shit grades. I'm a skeptic and ozone doing something it never has done will require some compelling evidence


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676464 - 12/19/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'll tell you a secret. . .people actually don't get pissed off. They just pretend they are. All people want is statements to be based in fact and claims to be supported with evidence not conjecture. You might think that O3 in your SAB is responsible for an increase for 50 to 100% success however, those of us already enjoying 99.9% have a hard time seeing it.

If you make a claim then be prepared to convince us. Or else prepare thy asshole :lol:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22676528 - 12/19/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

understood. My apologies for being a dick. What i can say is my agar work has gone from 50% success to 100% using ozone injection into SAB. I no longer use gloves or IPA or lysol which saves me money. This is significant for me. I have extrapolated this out to sawdust recently ozonated 1 gallon sawdust for 30 minutes at 1 LPM O2 at  27 UG/ml ozone.
Did G2G transfer. I fully expect failure but am excited about the results. So far the myc is growing well (2 days). If this fails i will try 1 hour of ozone injection. If that fails i give up ! :smile:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676549 - 12/19/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Try using some soapy water instead and see how that does. The change might be something other than the ozone. Limit variables if you want to prove something to people.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22676580 - 12/19/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

fair enough... i understand i am in the midst of a no bullshit community. Im do not intend to post BS results. I actually thought my results were BS myself until i did it 3 times with a dirty SAB , dirty knife, no gloves, etc and did the transfers out of my normal room on the couch where my dogs have totally covered the couch with dog hair and still got better success ... i know when i finally build a flow hood this will be irrelevant but i may build an aquarium style unit just for agar transfers for when im too lazy to do all the extra clean stuff. An important thing to note is ozone will destroy your lungs so a sealed unit with charcoal ozone destruct exhaust is 100% necessary.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676593 - 12/19/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

See right there you only did it three times. I could do agar and G2G in a dry box with no gloves 3 times easy. The box does 70 percent of the work. We only use the gloves and the iso or soapy water to add to that. Takes our success rates into the 90's.
Damn I is baked. Can't articulate shit! Anyway it's your movements that are super key. If those improved it might be the difference not the ozone.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22676624 - 12/19/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

good point, it ight be the positive air pressure as well, i do use soap water normally in my SAB, i spray the room with soap water, spray the SAB wit IPA , then soap water, take a shower, brush teeth, wear clean clothes, clean my glasses, IPA jars, IPA dishes, turn off all furnace and ventilation in the house, even after all this i still get better results using ozone and nothing else, completely filty, do transfers when i get home from work covered with spores im sure. I let the ozone run at 1 LPM O2 @ 27 ug/ml ozone for 5 minutes in the SAB. I dont use IPA, i hold each dish in the ozone stream for a few seconds, and hold the blade there, and my hands and arms, then do transfers and i have seen only 2 contamed agar plates in the last month. Way better than any sterile technique ive tried. This could be attributed to the positive air pressure in the SAB so i want to test this with just O2 and see what i get.

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Offlinedr phil
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676647 - 12/19/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I would attribute it to practice. You would have gotten to this success had you done ozone or not. Maybe you would have had 0 bad dishes rather than 2 had you just kept it simple. Maybe


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22676675 - 12/19/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i agree more testing is necessary... at this point i cannot conclude anything. Could be a coincidence or because of positive air pressure which i know will help especially since my O2 generator is filtered with a hepa style filter. In the meantime i will conduct more tests to see what i get. I guess my point here is all that is known is not all that is to known even if there are no results to found online. Ozone does have multiple applications for disinfection and sterilization and could possibly be extrapolated to other purposes if used in the correct concentration. KIlling molds and microbes is the #1 purpose of this stuff so my thinking is why cant it be applied to mycology? Heres a site that sells ozone sterilation machines proven to kill microbes on agar. http://www.genlantis.com/ozone-sterilizer-1.html

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22676728 - 12/19/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yes agree . Test results cannot be determined 100% unless i do a lot more tests. Its all speculation. Could be another cause. I know you know a lot about mycology from your posts so please excuse my ignorance. Im here to learn.

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Offlinedr phil
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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676827 - 12/19/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No worries man. I like asking questions to get down to the point. Believe me I've been questioned into thinking more clearly more than I can count myself.

Big companies do the same thing. Lab says they need UV staged flow holds to do their job. Ok well your lead research scientist needs to articulate what isn't able to be done effectively nos and how it will be done, and when he articulates that then they get a budget. Better show that they worked after the fact too.

Not every lab has the same needs. So for us doing mycology a SAB is sufficient, you can make the arm holes very large. Technique and settling contamination in the SAB air with spray and waiting a little bit are more important than the technology.

Don't need a Lamborghini to grow mushrooms


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Edited by dr phil (12/19/15 07:01 PM)

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: dr phil]
    #22676914 - 12/19/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

agreed, dont need a lamborgini , im just using this because i already have the resources to do so. I wouldnt buy this stuff just for mycology to be sure. For anyone else i would say a SAB is the way to go and has served me well so far. Since i have this stuff already why not experiment especially since experimentation is fun!

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676954 - 12/19/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

since this thread was totles "possible experiment for...." here is my experiment, ive already experimented with agar which i believe is valid but worth more tests, here is my recent experimet on sawdust. Ozone injected into 1 gallon jar @ 27 ug/ml for 30 minutes. Grain transfer. So far its growing, wil it contam? Yea, i expect it to. Then i will try 1 hr ozone injection and possibly change my distribution method as in drill holes in the distribution tube.  Worth noting is the ozone exhaust concentration was at nil for the first 15 minutes meaning the sawdust was absorbing the ozone and neutralizing/converting the exhaust to O2.


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22676995 - 12/19/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

so what is to gained by this? my goal is electicity savings from cooking stuff. It costs a lot less to run a compressor that to run an element. Every penny saved in this hobby is a big plus.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22677017 - 12/19/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Is the green in the jar on the right or on it?

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22677051 - 12/19/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

no green yet, must be a reflection, i know my contams, first sign of green and its outsideville for that jar.... im highly prejudiced against the greens :cool:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22677074 - 12/19/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)


This was bugging me so i had to get out of bed and take more pics... found the culprit. How to create artificial green mold, leave a green tape measure laying on the table nearby! ... duh :crazy2:


Edited by nitrodigital (12/20/15 04:44 AM)

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22678423 - 12/20/15 06:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

can i ask are you guys using IPA doing SAB work? or just soapy water?
The cheapest i can get it here is 40 bucks a gallon at the pharmacy and i go through way too much of it for my likings. I clean the SAB with it, the knife, my gloves, jars, burn it in the burner. I spray the sab with soapy water after cleaning it with IPA and the lid both sides, then give it a shot of lysol. Maybe i can skip cleaning the sab with it and just use soap water? I think some people use bleach but i dont want to expose myself to chlorine.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22678431 - 12/20/15 06:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I wipe down my jars and shit with iso but soapy water for everything else


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: cronicr]
    #22678456 - 12/20/15 06:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Excellent. So i can skip the sab then. I figured that was overkill but i just kinda went extreme because everything i touched contammed when i started. Im going to go straight soap water next time and see how it goes. :thumbup:

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22678648 - 12/20/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nitrodigital said:
can i ask are you guys using IPA doing SAB work? or just soapy water?
The cheapest i can get it here is 40 bucks a gallon at the pharmacy and i go through way too much of it for my likings. I clean the SAB with it, the knife, my gloves, jars, burn it in the burner. I spray the sab with soapy water after cleaning it with IPA and the lid both sides, then give it a shot of lysol. Maybe i can skip cleaning the sab with it and just use soap water? I think some people use bleach but i dont want to expose myself to chlorine.




Holy shit, do you live in Nunavut?


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22686314 - 12/22/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Worse, Winnipeg, land of the eternal ripoff.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22686754 - 12/22/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, they usually sell the stuff at dollar stores.  There are three Dollar Trees in Winnipeg you can call to ask.


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22686908 - 12/22/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They sell IPA at dollar stores?? I thought it had to be sold in a pharmacy. The small bottle at the pharmacy is a complete ripoff like 10 bucks for 500ml , is why i bought the gallon. This is 99% and they keep it behind the counter, so have to ask for it. Id be happy with 70% though if i could get it cheap.

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22686966 - 12/22/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

excerpted from:
http://www.canlii.org/en/mb/laws/regu/man-reg-201-94/latest/man-reg-201-94.html


Rubbing alcohol
        6          Rubbing alcohol is declared to be liquor pursuant to subsection 11(1)
        of the Act.

        Conditions of sale
        7          Stomach bitters or rubbing alcohol may be sold

          (a) where the sale is not a retail sale within the meaning of The Retail Sales Tax
          Act, by a manufacturer or wholesaler

              (i) to another wholesaler or, respecting rubbing alcohol only, to another
              manufacturer,

              (ii) to a person for industrial, manufacturing, scientific or agricultural use,
              or

              (iii) to a licensed pharmacist;

          (b) by a licensed pharmacist from a dispensary in a licensed pharmacy.

its classified as a liquor in manitoba.

This is why they always ask what i am doing with it before they sell it to me at the pharmacy because of provincial laws.

...and here is another example of the only other place i know to buy it in canada, from uline costs 50 bucks a gallon plus shipping. Like i said as a canadian we are ripped off blind on just about all products.

http://www.uline.ca/Product/AdvSearchResult.aspx?KeywordTyped=isopropyl&keywords=99%25%20Isopropyl%20Alcohol


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22687185 - 12/22/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You definitely don't need the 99%.  You want it to be at 70%.  Some people buy the 91% because it costs the same as the 70% and dilute it to save a few cents.


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Psilicon]
    #22690195 - 12/23/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yep , i dilute it to 70% :thumbup: still go through a lot though especially when cleaning the sab, wiping down tools, and the bags etc. I put it in a spray bottle to try to conserve it but i think im using up more by spraying it!

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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: nitrodigital]
    #22768237 - 01/11/16 11:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I use IPA for sterilizing the floor on my GB and my exacto/needles/gloves. I just got some good quality stuff from amazon and been trying to use it sparingly to get a higher yield from it.
Before I work on my GB I spray chlorinated water about 1:10 parts chlorine to water over my work area and inside my GB to trap any airborne particles, the spraybottle I use is a bit wasteful and doesn't do THAT great of a job at dispersing the liquid but it gets it done :rolleyes:
I just googled health risks for chlorine and other than getting itchy eyes once in a while there's no major health concerns with it, plus your only "operating" for a short period of time anyhow.
I'll be following you on your threads as they seem interesting to me
Cheers  :thumbup:


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Re: Possible experiment for Ozone Substrate sterilization. [Re: Bloc]
    #25018900 - 02/24/18 03:58 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
P.S. check the dates lol

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