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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Economist]
#6155473 - 10/10/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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And wait we will and just like ALL nuke programs they started blowing up small bombs and them bigger bombs and bigger..........Give em a few weeks and they will blow a bigger bomb and may even blow a bomb high in the atmosphere..........Oh yes the fireworks
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Fucknuckle]
#6155481 - 10/10/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are you willing to make a bet on this?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Redstorm]
#6155514 - 10/10/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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LMAO are you serious
To what point anyway ? You think the entire idea of humanity avoiding a full blown world war involving nukes is the only outcome.
I think the only outcome of humanity, as we know it, is a slave to world war mixed with Nuke winter.
A bet ? What the fuck are you talking about......if your right you can never get paid off. How can you be proven right ? we would have to wait FOREVER.............
If I am right how can I collect ? There will be no way..........
So stop acting so emotional and childish. This is a place to talk debate etc..............not cry.
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Redstorm]
#6155597 - 10/10/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
First, the reason the bomb might have been very small is that North Korea has a very limited amount of nuclear fuel, and cannot efficiently or quickly produce very much more.
This is actually one of the reasons they would not start small. Decent energies must be liberated in order to generate the data needed to progress forward with a design. The risk of loosing fuel on a fizzle and the resulting lose of data is not worth saving a kilo of fuel. These types of weapons do not easily scale down. It is much, much more difficult to build a nuke with a small yield than it is to build a big one.
Quote:
The device could have been designed poorly, and some of the fuel dissipated or burned off without joining the chain reaction.
My guess is that they were in a hurry to breed fuel and ran the reactor hot without realizing the severity of the consequences.
Quote:
Or it could have failed outright, and the North Koreans, too embarrassed after what happened to their missile earlier this year, blew up a bunch of conventional explosives to cover up the failure.
Without getting too specific, it is fairly easy for the US government to tell the difference between a large conventional explosion and a nuclear explosion. It will take a bit of time to know for certain, 100%, but they can get real, real close to certain from the seismic activity recorded.
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At this point I don't think there's anyway to tell what exactly happened.
Pollution will tell the tale if it was a nuke or not. However, I would be surprised to find out that it was conventional and not nuclear in nature. Geologists around the world would have detected anything short of a complete dud... and with a complete dud there would have been no reason to cover anything up.
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Economist
in training


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Seuss]
#6155787 - 10/10/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Without getting too specific, it is fairly easy for the US government to tell the difference between a large conventional explosion and a nuclear explosion. It will take a bit of time to know for certain, 100%, but they can get real, real close to certain from the seismic activity recorded.
The CNN story quoted the US official as saying something in the test "went wrong", so it makes me curious what details the US officials know.
It would be hard for them (politically) to come out and say it wasn't a nuclear explosion right now when China, Russia, Japan, and South Korea are all saying it was.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Fucknuckle]
#6155942 - 10/10/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're not even debating. You're spewing garbage with no evidence of any sort. It sounds like some nutty Christian apocalyptica.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Economist]
#6155963 - 10/10/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The CNN story quoted the US official as saying something in the test "went wrong", so it makes me curious what details the US officials know.
Spy satellite monitoring of the area may be able to eliminate the possibility that it was pulled off with conventional explosives. Given this and the fact that seismic data can clearly distinguish a nuclear event, I think US officials are now pretty certain it was an attempted and failed nuclear test. Interestingly, Russia seems quite convinced that it was successful.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Economist]
#6157090 - 10/11/06 04:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The CNN story quoted the US official as saying something in the test "went wrong", so it makes me curious what details the US officials know.
Keep in mind that the US spent 40-some-odd-years locked in the cold war where they spent billions upon billions of dollars in both R&D and practical applications to detect what the USSR and China were doing with their nuclear programs. The US capability here is next to none and borders on the edge of science fiction.
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Interestingly, Russia seems quite convinced that it was successful.
I think this is political. As I said in an earlier post, NK is either serious about making nuclear weapons, or was throwing a temper tantrum to get attention. Assuming the later, it is much better for nations to back off from the "it failed, hahaha" mentality to help diffuse the situation. By keeping the failure low key, or claiming the failure was a success, NK doesn't have to run another test to save face with the world. However, if NK is serious about building nukes, they will have to run a test near the 15kt range to get the data needed to continue their program.
If they fizzle a second time, then I would be almost certain that they bred 240 by mistake. If this is the case, then NK is sitting on a lot of plutonium that is worthless for making nukes but would be perfect for use in dirty bombs. I am much more worried about NK selling off bad plutonium (non-weapons grade) to the highest bidder than I am about NK building nukes.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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speeddealer
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 142
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Seuss]
#6157659 - 10/11/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Kim Jong Il announced Karl Rove's planned 'earthquake' a day or two ahead of time. I am not bashing the person who posted, just the notion of speaking lies without reading the news. Shit man, Al Jazeera carried the news too! The test was announced ahead of time....FACT.
How in the world are dissenting sides ever going to agree when there are trash opinions and wild-eyed conspiracy theories such as this? Who could possibly benefit from this other than Kim Jong Il?
And before you go bashing me saying that it's he's entitled to his opinion. I should remind you that 'holocaust denial' is also an opinion...a very damaging one. No flames, just the cold hard facts....think responsibly.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: speeddealer]
#6157703 - 10/11/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Holocaust denial is also illegal in many countries. What he posted can not be compared to holocaust denial.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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speeddealer
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 142
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: North Korea conspiracy [Re: Hank, FTW]
#6158146 - 10/11/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Really? So a lie is determined by how many lives it costs? Hmmm, didn't know that..thanks for clearing it up.
So you see no comparison between lying/denying that 6-9 million people died at the hands of Nazis or incorrectly lying about an evil right wing cabal that plotted the organized destruction of buildings on American soil in order to precipitate a military response and perhaps endanger the entire citizenry of the USA in a lengthy, protracted, ground war--all in the name of cheap oil or Halliburton's stock price?
Or that we stand something to gain by standing toe to toe with a nuclear North Korea, 1 million soldiers strong?
You see no equivalent in terms of potential lives lost? Hmmm, lessee almost a million Iraqis died because of this war, numerous others left uncounted, thousands of American soldiers killed, maimed, or crippled...families destroyed...and you do not see how this sort of opinion can be extremely dangerous?
Do you not think that giving salience to wild eyed conspiracy theories can be damaging--not only to the cause of prosecuting a war, but perhaps in letting those outside the country think that we are a fractured, argumentative lot--seemingly at odds with it's own self over what to do after Afghanistan? Iraq? Iran? North Korea?
Do you not think Kim Jong Il sees it and relishes it? Do you not think that Ahmadinejad sees it and relishes it? OBL? Chavez? My point is, are they not emboldened by these 'theories'? ...and think that if they fracture Americans' political will that we will lack the ability to militarily respond to a nuclear N Korea or a nuclear Iran. How about if we, as a country were united, what could we do to help the situation in Darfur or furthering scientific discoveries in medicine rather than figuring out how to build blast proof doors?
I suppose history will judge. I am not equivocating 9/11 to the holocaust, what I am saying is that if you can't see how lies can beget other lies and eventually cause people to forget history--I will only help you try to see it. If someone openly lies about something, I am going to call them on it. That's why it's illegal in Germany, but I am glad we don't live there. I only hope that it will not cost us between 6-9 million human lives while we wait for history to judge the severity while people are sitting, spending time and energy thinking that Karl Rove figured out a way to cause an earthquake in North Korea so we can have an excuse to attack. It's drivel and in my book, should go along with holocaust denial as a dangerous lie predicated upon someone's paranoia...just like the idiots that sit around and tell me that 9/11 was an inside job, yet they can't find one single reputable source to confirm these lies....
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