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OfflineShroomNoob03
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Microscope Modification
    #6143218 - 10/07/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was interested in purchasing a nice light microscope, and I have a few questions for those who know something about them. I don’t want anything much more than $500, but I’d like to be able to indulge in some dark-field microscopy.

Would it be possible to install a phase condenser or dark-field stopper into any light microscope, or does it require extensive modification? Would I be able to revert back to bright-field just by removing the stopper/condenser?


What do you guys think,
SN03


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In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.

-Carl Sagan

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: ShroomNoob03]
    #6143244 - 10/07/06 12:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've bought three microscopes from here http://www.microscopesusa.com/ You might find what you're looking for, although I doubt for $500. What exactly is it you want to see?

A light microscope is fine for looking at spores and mycelium. You can see clamp connections once you learn to adjust the condenser.

I actually use my cheapo $200 zoom microscope more often than the expensive ones. Zoom microscopes work like a high powered magnifying glass. You look at the object itself, rather than the light that has penetrated the object. It allows me to instantly see if spores have germinated on agar, or to tell the difference between mushroom mycelium and mold mycelium. They're also good for examining the gills of a mushroom.
RR


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OfflineShroomNoob03
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6143449 - 10/07/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What do I want to see? As much as possible.

I'm a bio student so I wanted to be able to check out whatever I find, whether it's spores or leaves or insects.

The physical limitations of a light microscope suck, but I figured I could get a lot of experience just messing around with it.

In class, my eyes usually bother me from staring into the light for a few hours, so I wanted a light microscope that I could convert to darkfield or even phase contrast. I just wanted to know if I need special parts for this, or if I need an entirely different microscope.

Thanks,
SN03


--------------------
In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.

-Carl Sagan

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: ShroomNoob03]
    #6145584 - 10/08/06 01:20 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Any light microscope can do darkfield with the right condenser. All you really need is a lightstop that blocks the center of the lightpath. That sounds great, but the reality is that to do good darkfield work you need something a little fancier than that.

The idea is simple, but to actually do it is tougher. Most places don't make the parts for an easy conversion. I've seen some microscopes that can be changed to phase contrast or darkfield fairly easily, but finding the parts is the problem. Most places want a ton of money for anything with darkfield or PC, and the conversion kits are really expensive too. It's a shame.

You're not going to get even a top notch regular light microscope for $500, so you're definitely not going to get PC or DF for that price. It's too bad DF shows up some really cool stuff that you can't see any other way and PC is really nice for mycology.

I would try to make a simple lightstop yourself if you're interested in DF. It's not all that hard.


-FF

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: fastfred]
    #6147367 - 10/08/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)



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:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: Brainiac]
    #6148866 - 10/09/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've ordered from them a few times. They are a good company, the catalog is a good read. Their prices aren't all that good anymore, so check around first. Just becasue it's called "surplus" doesn't always mean it's a good price.

Check eBay for scopes also.


-FF

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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: fastfred]
    #6149400 - 10/09/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was shopping around ebay last night and most of the dark field, flourescent, exc. scopes started at around $1200 on average.

But I also saw dark field condensers that were something like $50. Well, one was $50 and the others $250+. I don't know squat about scopes, but maybe you can find something there that works for you in one of those ebay stores. Good luck.

Edited by Hotnuts (10/09/06 12:11 PM)

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Microscope Modification [Re: Hotnuts]
    #6152852 - 10/10/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

From: http://www.olympusmicro.com/primer/techniques/darkfield.html

"There are several pieces of equipment that are utilized to produce darkfield illumination. The simplest is a "spider stop" placed just under the bottom lens (in the front focal plane) of the substage condenser (Figures 3(b) and 4(a)). Both the aperture and field diaphragms are opened wide to pass oblique rays. The central opaque stop (you can make one by mounting a coin on a clear glass disk) blocks out the central rays. This device works fairly well, even with the Abbe condenser (Figure 3), with the 10x objective up to 40x or higher objectives having a numerical aperture no higher than 0.65. The diameter of the opaque stop should be approximately 16-18 millimeters for a 10x objective of numerical aperture 0.25 to approximately 20-24 millimeters for 20x and 40x objectives of numerical apertures approaching 0.65."

"Almost any brightfield laboratory microscope can be easily converted for use with darkfield illumination. As discussed above, central opaque stops can be fashioned from a small coin, cardboard, plastic, or black paper that can be placed in a filter carrier beneath the condenser (or taped to the condenser bottom with adhesive tape) to block light from entering the front lens of the objective. The diameter of the opaque stop will vary from objective to objective and should be carefully measured by placing a transparent ruler in the substage filter carrier and holding it steady against the bottom of the condenser. Next, determine the opening size by removing an eyepiece and observing the image of the ruler at the back focal plane of the objective using a phase telescope (or by inserting a Bertrand lens). Make certain that both the substage condenser aperture and field diaphragms are opened to their widest position before performing this maneuver. The number of ruler divisions visible in the back focal plane will be equal to the size of the stop necessary to block zeroth order light from entering the objective. Change to the next largest size objective and take another measurement, repeating until stop sizes for all objectives are known."


The promlem with this method is that it only works up to a NA of 0.65, which means that it will work only up to about 400X. That's still pretty decent though.


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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