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Offlineexclusive58
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9/11 Press For Truth
    #6140974 - 10/06/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250

An excellent documentary about the families of the victims of 9/11 and their fight to uncover and expose the truth about what happened that day.

"This is a scandal of tremendous proportions. It makes Watergate look small. There's a strange lack of interest that people both on the left and on the right, nobody seems to want to uncover the truth and just follow leads wherever they may go, because I think they go towards alot of damaging places."
-Paul Thompson, Researcher, Complete 9/11 Timeline


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6141063 - 10/06/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

gawsh
100 million dollars used on investigating clinton's affair with lewinsky,
and 14 million dollars used on investigating what happened on 9/11

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6141454 - 10/06/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
gawsh
100 million dollars used on investigating clinton's affair with lewinsky,
and 14 million dollars used on investigating what happened on 9/11



I hope you mean "gawsh" as in "gawsh what a load of crap".

Ken Starr spent $40 million investigating the Clintons, not $100 million (see the Starr report: http://www.amazon.com/Starr-Report-Independent-Investigation-President/dp/0761519602 )

Also, the NIST investigation ALONE took $20 million, and the FEMA investigation was so cheap ($600,000) because the American Society of Civil Engineers DONATED their time and expertise to the investigation.  This is clearly stated in US House of Representatives Committee on Science hearings (I'd post a link, but I know people get picky about .gov addresses).

So, we're already over $14 million (hell, the NIST alone was over that number), and we still haven't taken into account money spent by the FBI, CIA, and Armed Forces...

You know, it used to be hard to disprove these people, now it's just kind of boring...

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Economist]
    #6142515 - 10/07/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you add up the other counsels' spendings on Clinton's investigation, the number actually reaches $62 million.

That's still an amazingly huge contrast with NIST's 20 million dollars spent on the 9/11 investigation, especially when you consider that Gene Corley, senior vice president of Construction Technology Laboratories Inc., declared that it would take $40 million to adequately study the issue.

These $40 million dollars were supposed to cover the cost of collecting and stockpiling all the steel and other debris, scientifically examining them, computer modeling the steel, and lots more.

But guess what, by the time that Corley made this declaration, practically all the steel had already been recycled. And plus, NIST's final report included computer simulations of the boeings hitting the towers, but didn't include simulations of the collapses themselves. ( http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_briefing_april0505.htm )
Not only that, but this final report only treats the Twin Towers, and makes no mention of WTC7.




This is how investigations usually proceed when accidents happen:



The debris are collected, reassembled, and attempts are made to find out where the flaws were, what went wrong, in order to prevent future accidents of the same kind. This wasn't done with the Twin Towers.



So put yourself in the place of the viticms' families: three times more money was spent on investigating Clinton than the deaths of 3,000 people, only half of the money needed for a real investigation was funded, and the final report sidesteps the core questions of collapse of the Twin Towers.

That's enough to be very frustrated and pissed off, no?



Check that video out, its about these victims' families and their fight to find out the truth, and the deeper they dig, the more pissed off they get.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6142525 - 10/07/06 05:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
put yourself in the place of the viticms' families: three times more money was spent on investigating Clinton than the deaths of 3,000 people, only half of the money needed for a real investigation was funded, and the final report sidesteps the core questions of collapse of the Twin Towers.

That's enough to be very frustrated and pissed off, no?




:thumbup:  exactly.  I'm from NY, and have lots of friends / family there.  While I doubt most / any of them think 9/11 was a conspiracy / etc. they ARE very frustrated at the horrible investigation.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6142564 - 10/07/06 06:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Not only that, but this final report only treats the Twin Towers, and makes no mention of WTC7.



Wow, hold your horses here, I'm usually with you on this subject, but this is just untrue. The NIST issued a provisional report about WTC7, and their final report on that aspect of 9/11 is due in early 2007, if I'm not mistaken, after some delay. Maybe they have a hard time adding it all up and making it fit with the facts. One can bet it won't be completely satisfactory. Already, for example, in the provisional report, they mentioned every hardly visible detail of what happened at the time of the collapse, with precision up to a 100th of a second: a kink appearing here, windows blown out there, etc. Yet, no mention of those clearly visible upward running little puffs on the southwest corner at the exact moment the collapse began. Did those escape their attention?

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Aldous]
    #6142577 - 10/07/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

oh, ok, I was basing these assumptions on NIST's "Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Towers", where indeed no mentions of WTC7 are to be found.

do you have a link to that provisional report about WTC7?

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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6143349 - 10/07/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I can't find the actual report anymore, but you'll find some NIST stuff on WTC7 on this page:

wtc[dot]nist[dot]gov[slash]media[slash]archives[dot]htm
(insert dots and slashes)

If you search the rest of the website you might be more successful than I was (didn't spend much time).

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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6147670 - 10/08/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The debris are collected, reassembled, and attempts are made to find out where the flaws were, what went wrong, in order to prevent future accidents of the same kind. This wasn't done with the Twin Towers.




Not sure where you got this from. Did you know that WTC 7 has been fully rebuilt with a reinforced core to prevent the exact failure that has been implicated in the collapse on 9/11?

You can go ahead and look at all the research for yourself. You might want to grab a coffee because its about 10,000 pages long.

http://wtc.nist.gov/

Maybe this is what you were looking for?

Microanalysis of WTC Steel

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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: exclusive58]
    #6168913 - 10/14/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Right, I've seen it now.

I really urge people, especially those who support the official story, to see this one and tell us what they think about it. Not that I think they might be convinced or whatever, but it's really interesting.

First, it's well made and very different from any conspiracy film. Not a word about molten steel, the Pentagon or whatever, not a single factual aspect of the attacks themselves is covered. This is all about forgotten mainstream news, poor investigations, official lies, and how the media treat it all. This film doesn't claim to give answers, it just asks questions. So this is not a conspiracy movie, and I think some conspiracist-bashers around here (just a few, and almost none of the die-hards) may like it and agree that the questions asked there are crucial and unresolved (probably for a reason).

So I'm really curious of what you guys might think. (Phred, this doesn't apply to you, not only because you would never watch this and if you did, you would just brush it aside like everything else, but I AM aware you're on a dial-up connection.)

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OfflinePhred
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Aldous]
    #6169106 - 10/14/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

This film doesn't claim to give answers, it just asks questions. So this is not a conspiracy movie, and I think some conspiracist-bashers around here (just a few, and almost none of the die-hards) may like it and agree that the questions asked there are crucial and unresolved (probably for a reason).




There is only one question which matters --

Who hijacked the planes?

And one corollary to that question which matters --

Who knew they were going to hijack the planes?

And -- surprise, surprise -- I don't need to watch an hour and a half video in order to ask those questions, so there would be no point in my doing so even if I weren't on dialup.

You say the film doesn't give answers, so presumably it doesn't give answers to those two questions. Tell me again why anyone should watch it.




Phred


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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Phred]
    #6171024 - 10/15/06 06:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Are you not interested to know who paid for the operation? Are you aware that a known asset of the Pakistani secret service ISI wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta just before 9/11? And that the head of said ISI was visiting officials in the US while it happened? And that he was never questioned or held accountable? That the unrelenting effort of the US to find the terrorists and hold the accountable never touched upon the ISI? How does this all add up with 19 Osama-affiliated cavemen doing the trick on their own? As the film points out, if the ties had been to Iraqi intelligence rather than the ISI, the story would have been all over the US media and US officials would have pointed it out over and over again.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Aldous]
    #6171227 - 10/15/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Are you not interested to know who paid for the operation?




Only if whoever paid for it knew the who, what, when, and where of the operation beforehand.

Quote:

Are you aware that a known asset of the Pakistani secret service ISI wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta just before 9/11?




So what? It doesn't surprise me in the least that there might be Pakistanis sympathetic to the cause of global jihad. Some of them might even be used as conduits for cash transfers for Al Qaeda. Did the Pakistani bagman involved know the details of the plot? More to the point, did the head of the ISI?




Phred


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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Phred]
    #6171792 - 10/15/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, by that account, maybe Saddam Hussein didn't know about those WMD's he didn't have.  :rolleyes:

Of course, if you don't investigate, you'll never know who knew what.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: Aldous]
    #6171799 - 10/15/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Of course, if you don't investigate, you'll never know who knew what.




:grin:

Who's to say that someone has not investigated into the matter? :shocked:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6171819 - 10/15/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


North Korea was also helped by its participation in the rogues' club of nations that have suffered U.S. sanctions for pursuing nuclear ambitions, led by Pakistan, since the end of the cold war. After Washington shut down exports of military hardware to Pakistan in 1985, none other than Harvard-educated Benazir Bhutto concluded a missile deal with the North. Pakistan's black-marketing lead scientist, AQ Khan, visited North Korea 13 times over the next seven years. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has denied he knew anything about this, but according to former senior Pakistani officials those visits occurred with the knowledge and consent of the military leadership. Pakistan agreed to provide second-rate P1 centrifuge technology to North Korea in return for missiles, enabling Pakistan to extend the reach of its nuclear weapon deep inside India, and North Korean scientists received nuclear briefings at KRL (Khan Research Laboratory), Pakistan's main nuclear facility. Even so, the imported uranium enrichment technology has barely gotten off the ground. In the end, it was juche that prevailed.




From  this article.

It wouldn't surprise me if Pakistan was involved. After all, it makes sense when one considers where bin Laden is purported to be in hiding, Pakistan's expressed anti-American viewpoints, the country's religious stance, etc. etc. etc. Perhaps they felt threatened by India and thought they would enter an alliance with a country that is bordering China? You know India and China have been buds, after all, with Russia and Iran as well....:smirk:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 Press For Truth [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6172153 - 10/15/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Notice how the US treats countries differently whether they have the bomb or not. As I said, imagine what would have happened if, for instance, Irak could have been tied to 9/11 they way Pakistan has been. The US would have nuked them right away  :wink: But obviously Pakistan can afford it. North Korea can afford a nuclear test. And Iran had better stop their research to obtain the bomb.

It seems the US really is afraid of the bomb.

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