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OfflinePhishe
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DMT in Schizophrenics?
    #6109175 - 09/27/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I went to this link from another dmt thread on this board.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/extraction_guide1/dmt_extraction_guide1.shtml

It says that people naturally have dmt in their bodies, and that it's found in abnormal levels in schizophrenics.

Does the extra dmt account for there schizophrenia? Is the dmt that is at abnormal levels causing there schizo or is it just some random trait?

I'd like to understand this if anyone has any greater knowlege about it.

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Offlinedemon2091tb
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Phishe]
    #6109478 - 09/27/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Not really sure but i've been reading DMT: The spirit molecule, and i beleive Dr. Strassmasun mentions that the more DMT in the blood the more schitzophrenic in nature the person is. That basically "normal" people have a much lower or average DMT blood level, and the deeper schitzophrenics had higher levels of DMT in there blood than normal.

This was also intresting to me, that this Anti-DMT that Strassmasun speaks of was also used in schizophenics to temporarily improve there symptoms, where inversely DMT given to "normal" people resembles that of schizophrenia (or there about, but usually dependant on DMT levels), but only for a brief amount of time.

Deffinently an awesome read there.

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OfflinePhishe
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: demon2091tb]
    #6109504 - 09/27/06 10:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That is pretty neat.

I wonder what causes the increase in dmt levels for schizophrenics though...

Does smoking or ingesting dmt increase it in your blood levels? For the duration the drug is in your system or does it permenantly effect the amount in your blood?

I know these are a lot of questions but it would be great if anyone had any input.

I'm gonna do a lot of searching as well.

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Offlinelsd25icu812
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Phishe]
    #6109513 - 09/27/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

there isn't any research saying that dmt is what is causing the problem. only that once the problem is there dmt is in abnormal amounts. shortly after this research and other research that was going on, funding and legality of psychedelic research ended. you should check out dmt the spirit molecule. it talks a bit about it. it is really really interesting though. i have thought about that allot after i heard about it. its so sad that research can not be done. maybe someday things will change


--------------------
love is what is left when you"ve let go of everything you love

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OfflinePhishe
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: lsd25icu812]
    #6109561 - 09/27/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for clearing that up>

I also wish studies could continue with psychedelic substances.

It seems like such powerful tools that human beings are just throwing away because of fear.

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OfflineLion
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Phishe]
    #6110379 - 09/28/06 07:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The only evidence of a correlation between DMT and schizophrenia is one test of 20 volunteers which found that schizophrenics respond less when dosed with DMT - there were no firm conclusions but the testers speculated that this may be due to schizophrenic's heightened metabolism or ability to process DMT more rapidly because of conditioning to endogenous synthesis.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflinePsychdlcMes3
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Lion]
    #6110416 - 09/28/06 08:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i read some where that skitzo have dmt in there urine


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: PsychdlcMes3] * 1
    #6110479 - 09/28/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The problem with all these correlational studies is cause and effect. You might ask yourself, does having schizophrenia somehow cause an increase in DMT levels, or does having an increase in DMT levels cause schizophrenia?.

A role for DMT in schizophrenia was a hot topic in the 1970's. There were quite a few studies looking at DMT in the urine and blood of schizophrenics and people with other psychiatric disorders. It's difficult to comment on suich studies as the full-text are not online so you wouldn't know the specifics of how the studies were performed. Here's a few abstracts to get you started though:

This study found no significant difference in DMT levels of the blood between schizo's and normals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_DocSum


Another study finding little correlation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_DocSum

ANother study finding know difference in CSF levels:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_DocSum

No SIg. difference in blood levels:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_DocSum

I could continue posting these studies but I'm sure you can use pubmed, and cross reference schizophrenia and DMT.

In sum, most of these studies are dated, there are a variety of arguments against this hypothesis (although there are some data supporting it). In essence, it is highly unlikely DMT would be the sole cause of schizophrenia as this is a multifactorial disorder.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineSDP
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: PsychdlcMes3]
    #6110494 - 09/28/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think the real question here is, are schizophrenics more connected to the spiritual plane, but in a way that to them is confusing and scary.

Or are we more connected to the schizophrenic plane, in a way that to us is fun and enlightening...


--------------------
Teonanacatl, open up my eyes
This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies
Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand
Give me strength to find the path
Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely
This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace
And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do
Amen

Edited by SDP (09/28/06 08:31 AM)

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: SDP]
    #27477194 - 09/21/21 04:41 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I do believe that in a psychotic state, the ego or default mode network is not working correctly. That is similar to ego loss and the effect that tryptamines have on us. However, we trip and return and integrate. And we start off with an intact ego.

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OfflineTrancedOutBrah
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: SDP]
    #27477221 - 09/21/21 05:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SDP said:
I think the real question here is, are schizophrenics more connected to the spiritual plane, but in a way that to them is confusing and scary.

Or are we more connected to the schizophrenic plane, in a way that to us is fun and enlightening...




Imagine being thrown into a DMT trip and not know you were in a DMT trip, but it never stopped and you never come down.

Chaotic. That's the only word I can describe how that would feel... and I feel like that sums up schizophrenia nicely... it's a chaotic disease that truly distorts reality, not being able to tell what's real... and what's not.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Offlineepilectric
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #27477732 - 09/22/21 03:47 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

i have one friend who has had occasional bouts of mild psychosis and he once used dmt to come down from a 500 mics + datura trip where he forgot his name. apparently it worked for him :eek:


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

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OfflineKalendula

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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: epilectric]
    #27540788 - 11/12/21 04:21 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
i have one friend who has had occasional bouts of mild psychosis and he once used dmt to come down from a 500 mics + datura trip where he forgot his name. apparently it worked for him :eek:




I would be very interested to hear you elaborate on that. A few years ago I posted a few positive datura experiences from the Internet in this thread: good datura experineces Interesting stuff.


--------------------
I need this, right?

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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Kalendula]
    #27540926 - 11/12/21 06:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, "worked" isn't a very specific term. My drugs work every time no matter how many of them I stack.  :lol:

Mostly people on here who are into Datura are weird, strange cats who believe in demons and stuff. Not many positive outcomes.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Invisiblekreg
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Northerner]
    #27540992 - 11/12/21 07:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone getting the feeling that kreg has lots of opinions on things he doesn't know anything about or understand?



Edited by kreg (02/24/22 06:15 PM)

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: kreg]
    #27545872 - 11/16/21 02:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Numerous laboratories reported
finding DMT in the blood and urine of some but
not all schizophrenic patients and also in some
other patients and even in normal subjects (Reviewed in Gillin et al 1976).

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InvisibleCavemen


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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Neurotech]
    #27546436 - 11/16/21 10:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

low dose dmt does feel a bit like schitzophrenia

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27547005 - 11/17/21 12:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kreg said:
I've yet to see any reports of schizophrenia or other natural neurological disorders (like dementia) causing geometric psychedelia.
Maybe I haven't read enough reports! I haven't read many! But I am pretty sure schizophrenia is nothing like DMT. And it's supposed to turn into melatonin in the brain so if anything my assumption as an English major not a phd in jackshit: i think more dmt in the brain would probably just be narcolepsy ahaha




The similarities previously noted in comparing psychosis to the effects of tryptamines are not the hallucinations. For the most part, schizophrenic hallucinations are auditory, not visual. Its the "mind-fuck" that has overlap, as in believing you are God, that your thoughts are being broadcast, or that certain normal events seem to have special or magical meaning. Under the influence of a psychedelic, you are also more likely to develop magical thinking and delusions. These usually dissipate when the trip does, but some can persist. I know someone well who has no psychotic disorders but after a particularly strong trip in college during which he became convinced the world was ending and everyone knew it and during which he and his fellow trippers also experienced much telepathy, he remained convinced that others' nonverbal behavior and insinuations indicated that they could read his mind. This persisted for several months and he stopped his excessive tripping for a while.

Psychedelics release us from our ego's grip, allowing us to explore nonduality, oneness and more. When they wear off, the ego resumes its function, leaving you as a functioning person in this consensual reality. In schizophrenia, the ego is poorly put together and there is no end to the trip. In general, I think you should have pretty good ego (def: that part of you that interacts with external reality) before tripping. In mystical Judaism it was said that you should not study Kabbalah until you are grown, have worked and married and had children. That you need to ground yourself in this world before you take a step back to look at the bigger picture.

Namaste

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: DMT in Schizophrenics? [Re: Phishe] * 1
    #27547587 - 11/17/21 10:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

:oldthread:

Ancient thread, but the reports of heightened DMT in schizophrenics have been discredited and were not accurate.

However we have had some schizophrenics on the boards who said that there were some limited similarities between schizophrenia and psychedelics, except that they described schizophrenia as being more organic, whatever that means.

I sometimes wonder if we attract schizophrenics partially because they believe we might be able to better understand them or relate to them as a result of our use of psychedelics.

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