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 Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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 Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK  [Re: DinoMyc]
#715231 - 07/01/02 07:36 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol
math jargon.
let me see anyone count to infinity in the real world.
because that's what we're talking about-
the real world,
where concepts like the square root of 2 and pi and infinity don't mean the same thing as in mathematics.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
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 DinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#715535 - 07/01/02 10:54 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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:P
math and the real world are one and the same 
and the aspect of the proof in question was that you could not count those numbers in finite time, IE that noone could ever actually do it (with the unlikely exception of infinite life..)..
I was merely useing this as a demonstration that it is possible to prove a negitive.. there are many other examples..
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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: DinoMyc]
#715800 - 07/01/02 01:31 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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no,
math and the real world aren't the same.
for example,
The Pythagorean Theorem asserts that for a right triangle, the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides: a2 + b2 = c2 .
let's assume we build, in the real world, a wooden triangle.
now, if the two short sides have a length of 1 foot,
then that means that the hypotenuse = the square root of 2.
but the square root of 2 is an irrational number.
unlike the real world board, which has a definite finite length we can quite obviously see,
the square root of 2 never ends, it just goes on forever.
thus we can easily see the break-down of mathematic theory in real world applications.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Anonymous
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: DinoMyc]
#715817 - 07/01/02 01:42 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Anonymous
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: DinoMyc]
#715824 - 07/01/02 01:45 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Anonymous
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#715835 - 07/01/02 01:50 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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DinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#716203 - 07/01/02 03:55 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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The length of anything you would try to measure is limited by your tools with which to measure it. It is currently impossible to measure any length to the accuracy necessary to disprove, as you claim, the Pythagorean Theorem. Incidentally the relationship has been verified to the limits of the measuring tools available at the time tests were conducted for millennia. Math is not some made up discipline which is close to the real world, but not quite related. It is quite the other way around, math is the language with which we describe and explore the relationships within the world around us.
The breakdown you are describing does not exist! There is no difference between definite and irrational.
I really must ask: what math you have familiarized yourself with? I can understand that given an insufficient exposure, one might think that math is essentially irrelevant or at least minimally relevant.
Mr_Mushrooms:
I do not feel like going through the motions for six other proofs, inside or outside of mathematics. I will give a few short summaries for you to look over or prove for yourself:
(real world problem, one which caused much discussion less than a century ago) Is it possible to create an algorithm (program) which can tell you the answer to this simple question: will algorithm/program X terminate or will it run indefinitely? Alan Touring gave a short and simple proof of this, a proof of a negative (that it is not possible, and nothing to do with math here).
Prove that a ladder falling will move away from the wall unless held there by some physical means (latter on a wall / ladder | wall : /| falling down to _|) will move away from the wall at some point near final position.
Prove that it is not exceptionally difficult to explode the bottom of a nearly full glass beer bottle (full to the standard level, just below full by about a cm or three) simply by slapping the open top (not enough force to cause pain etc.. unless your doing it wrong). This is quite easy to demonstrate, although it appears impossible.. try sometime.. this is a rather lax proof, however it is easily proven with math (and a knowledge of physics).
---
I do not see the link to any existential question, however I will address it to the extent that I have time to cover. Since modern philosophy has barely progressed since the inception of the discipline, and has generally separated itself from its roots, this question is one which is somewhat ?weighted?. You can not prove the existence OR non existance of any entity, even yourself. The closest anyone has generally come is Cogito Ergo Sum, of Descartes. Quite simply I exist because I believe so. Unfortunately by extension so do the politicians, corrupt lawyers (there are honest ones, surprisingly), bigoted racists, general bastards, inept ignoramuses, and the incredible surplus population which is consuming our planet, to themselves at least. Unfortunately I think they do exist, and therefore they do. I can neither consciously think them out of nor into existence, and so they must be real. A very weak and logically flawed argument, however it has stood the test of time.. It is a wonderful question to pose to yourself, the existence of oneself.. its rather depressing when you get down to it, however at the same time it can be enlightening to truly grasp, even for only a brief instant..
The demonstration of safety (as close to a proof as you can come not knowing everything going on in a particular biological situation, which we humans do not) I am looking for is some thorough analysis of the carpophores from dunked cakes.. if nothing new is present compared to non dunked, then it would be a concern. Or, if a mycologist gave demonstration of why the concern is unwarranted, to the contrary of some of the evidence given by MAIA et al.
Enjoy your day
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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.
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Anonymous
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: DinoMyc]
#717275 - 07/02/02 04:14 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: ]
#717863 - 07/02/02 10:34 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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correct, plato.
as for the safety of bleach-dipped shrooms,
like i said before- the FDA says it ok,
Stamets says it's ok, and that's good enough for me.
hell, i'm not even convinced that non-dipped shrooms are 'safe', so how can i prove dipped ones are ?
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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DinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#717932 - 07/02/02 11:13 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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I assume you mean Staments comments in GGMM about bleach:
The bleach bath method he describes is for uncolonized straw, and he specifically states that "cultivators should be careful where the toxic leachate is drained."
where did the FDA state that bleach is safe for use such as this? I just spent some time looking through their docs on bleach, and every one I read either used bleach only as a sanitizer or specificially warned against consumption or food which has come in contact with solutions containing bleach, even exceptionally low concentrations (obviously greater than that in tap water)....
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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: DinoMyc]
#719413 - 07/03/02 01:22 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, but there aren't any toxins left behind in the starw, yes ?
which is immediately inoculated.
as for the fda,
The U.S. FDA regulation 21 CFR 173.315 allows for fruits and vegetables to be washed in water containing up to 0.2 percent sodium hypochlorite.
cf. http://www.agnr.umd.edu/MCE/Publications/Publication.cfm?ID=258
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Dante606
Old KentuckyShark
Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 776
Loc: Under the bridge
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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 Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#721109 - 07/03/02 06:41 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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You guys are awesome, even though much of the last half of the thread had nothing to do with bleach dunking, you gave a stoned guy enough reading material to keep him occupied all night. This is a thread that shows many of the soap opera characteristics, that I like...  Seriously, I just got some Sphongle, and it rules... I, like many other math majors, am mathematically trying to disprove God, but since I just have a math minor I think I'd rather just read your guys writing because you are all so interesting.
Peace
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#730507 - 07/08/02 03:16 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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a milk-dunk combined with bleach dip report.
=========================================
ZestyMycelium
newbie
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 31
Hippie3 Dunktek Question...
07/07/02 02:08 PM Edit Reply
Hey everyone..
I have a single cake in a mini - terrarium (a little glass house about 16" tall, 10" in diameter, with a small dish of perlite for humidification). This is this cake's 5th flush using the dunk tek.
initially, after the 4th flush (achieved using the drinking straw method), I dunked the cake for 12 hours in evaporated milk (in the fridge, of course). I then put it back in the terrarium, only to notice a really rank ass smell a few days later(spoiled milk, of course). Rather than throw it out, I then bleached dunked the cake in 100:1:2 (water,bleach,vinegar) solution for another 12 hours, and then in sterilized water for 12 hours after that. I really didnt think the cake would pull through, but now there are 4 pins (and a whole crap load of tiny aborts, maybe 25 or so) growing from the top of the cake! The 4 pins look like they're definately going to make it through to maturity. They are EQ strain, have dark brown caps and brown streaks on the stems (assuming this is normal, after some searchin on this board)
My question is, do you think these shrooms are safe enough to eat? There is NO sign of the spoiled milk smell at all, as after I re-dunked the cake I disinfected the terrarium and used a fresh dish with new perlite. Im pretty amazed, this cake is in its 5th flush! I wonder how long it will keep going??
Thanks
Zesty
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Mycelium
enthusiast
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 222
Loc: ohigho
Re: Hippie3 Dunktek Question... [re: ZestyMycelium]
07/07/02 02:28 PM Edit Reply
I'll be very surprised if you get anymore after this one. Hell, I'll be surprised if those few pins even make it to maturity! But, 5 flushes thats pretty damn good. Good luck!
"The perfect human being is all human beings put together, it is a collective, it is all of us together that make perfection."
Socrates
http://www.thelittleguy.com - Clean, viable spores! Fast Delivery! 12 cc's a syringe!
the psilocybe archives
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Mr_Mushrooms
member
Reged: 06/28/02
Posts: 163
Loc: Greece
Re: Hippie3 Dunktek Question... [re: ZestyMycelium]
07/07/02 02:31 PM Edit Reply
They should be safe to eat.
Plato
Post Extras:
ZestyMycelium
newbie
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 31
Re: Hippie3 Dunktek Question... [re: Mr_Mushrooms]
07/07/02 04:59 PM Edit Reply
Thanks for the replies! Yeah, Im pretty amazed myself - I didnt think it was ever going to fruit again! The 4 shrooms are definately going to make it, they're nearly twice the size they were this morning! After I pick them, Im going to clean off all the abhorts and try another dunk, this time with evap. milk and dextrose.
Thanks again
Zesty
Post Extras:
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#744671 - 07/14/02 02:34 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
update.
my recent experiments have brought me to the conclusion that the inclusion of vinegar in the formula, at least at the strength posted before, is causing some molds, esp. green [trich] to actually grow faster than before.
lol
but once i removed the vinegar from the solution,
once again i see it stopping the mold dead in it's track.
i think it has to do with the solution ph, the vinegar brings the ph into the range favored by trich,
while straight bleach is very basic/alkaline,
which trich hates.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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melic
undead
Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 85
Loc: fin
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: Hippie3]
#1018032 - 11/03/02 09:24 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Intresting thread, well atleast half of it, the other half was a big load of fineprint namecalling 
Might try the tech if i run into trouble with contaminated cakes. Im using bleach all over the place anyway.
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Look at that bunch over there man, They've spotted us !
Melic 
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hsalf
bad O lover
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 147
Loc: not from around here
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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 Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: melic]
#1019562 - 11/03/02 10:01 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, but Jay & Silent Bob already gave us the just of whats to come when they walked onto the set of 'Good Will Hunting 2' 
Anyway, Hippie, why not ask someone to analyze a tissue sample of an isolate w/ & w/o using the dunk. Then post the results. I'm sure you'd be able to help put a final end to the skepticism that way. 'Course you seem to be satisfied already.
Personally I think I'd wait for the results. Don't like cancer. or extra chems in my Goddess flesh.
Well, time for a cigarette(doesn't negate previous statement  )
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daussaulit
Forgetful
Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: hsalf]
#1019567 - 11/03/02 10:03 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Did you see when the last post was before melic's post? 07/14/02 02:34 AM
This thread is over 3 months old. Please read the date before you post a reply.
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cowshitblues
Hey You
Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 11
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: daussaulit]
#1058862 - 11/16/02 08:10 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have personally been using bleach for all my dunks and in my misting water for well over 6 months,, and have eaten many many mushrooms with no ill affect,,and no contams....long term usage is safe due to the fact the bleach evaporates and turns into salts.. ive also been working in the food industry and use bleach alot ..and in more places you can imagine..nobody gets sick ....bleach saved my battle with contams many times over
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daussaulit
Forgetful
Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: cowshitblues]
#1058922 - 11/16/02 08:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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before those newbies posted a few weeks ago, the thread hasn't gotten replies in over 4 months. This thread is dead. Look at the date before posting ar reply.
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FunGuyToBeWith
The Hermit
Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 36
Loc: everywhere
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
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 Re: Hip's Bleach Experiment/TEK [Re: daussaulit]
#1059611 - 11/17/02 03:52 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its a live
lol got to love us newbes.
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