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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
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Fixed!! Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology.
#6108852 - 09/27/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok sorry about the hold up guys, I dont understand why the university IP would automatically allow me to access this journal, all I've done is connected to the net. I've uploaded it for you guys anyway, 
Definitely have a read through this, its probably the best overview I've seen on Muscaria, and its also a fairly new article. (2003)
Edited by Feelers (10/04/06 10:01 PM)
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MustNotBe
HPPDer


Registered: 01/27/06
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6108958 - 09/27/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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says not found
-------------------- Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck. - - - "Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room." - - - Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: MustNotBe]
#6109092 - 09/27/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6131280 - 10/04/06 03:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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there was an extra " " " at the end of the first link.
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elsig
Knowledgespeaks, wisdom listens



Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 533
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6131340 - 10/04/06 04:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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post the whole article if you have it, i have no access to this journal without a subscription.
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: elsig]
#6131440 - 10/04/06 06:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah sorry about that - I dont know what the hells going on, I was at uni when I looked at it but I didnt have to log on which would normally be required, I was just browsing the net. I'll just go there tomorrow and save a copy for everyone. 
Its odd because there was definately an unoffical one available also, but I cant seem to find that one either.
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Hermes_br
~~~


Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 546
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6131473 - 10/04/06 06:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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hello,
there you go 
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Hermes_br]
#6134389 - 10/04/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh sorry I didnt see you did that as well. , I posted it at the top also, "great minds..."! 
What did you think? I havent really seen anywhere near as coherrent summary of Amanita M before as this one, so I give it the big !
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Feelers
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6134464 - 10/04/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It does turn out that drying causes decarboxylation, so there is no need to cook them if they are dried.
It also confirms that the area of the red skin and the yellow underneath are the strongest in active constituents.
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Hermes_br
~~~


Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 546
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6164841 - 10/13/06 06:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Feelers said: What did you think? I havent really seen anywhere near as coherrent summary of Amanita M before as this one, so I give it the big !
hi Feelers,
I too found this paper to be the best review on A. muscaria so far.
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Viper
half man, half amazing


Registered: 10/09/06
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Hermes_br]
#6164960 - 10/13/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alright, that's just great! I really like this mushroom, and ironicly it can not be grown indoors. BTW, take a look at the tread I posted (Amanita idea) and take a moment to tell me what you think. Thanks again Feelers, Hermes.
-------------------- I've come to restore what they stole from you, cure the cold in you, reverse what was told to you!
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Viper]
#6167920 - 10/14/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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> It does turn out that drying causes decarboxylation, so there is no need to cook them if they are dried.
I wouldn't trust that. Do you have a source? Normally decarboxylation takes place via heating.
-FF
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Viper
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: fastfred]
#6168012 - 10/14/06 02:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm a bit sceptic, too, but maybe an enzyme reaction takes place during the drying process. Stil, just to be safe, I recomend drying the cap on at least 90^C. Not only to turn ibotenic acid into muscimol, but also to kill insects or other pests that maybe present. Also, the text mentiones haemolysins, and they are decomposed after exposure to heat. I sure don't want haemolysins ever inside me.
-------------------- I've come to restore what they stole from you, cure the cold in you, reverse what was told to you!
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Feelers
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Viper]
#6169456 - 10/14/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you have a source? Normally decarboxylation takes place via heating
Yeah, the article that's posted! 
Quote:
Ibotenic acid (pantherin, agarin), i.e. a-amino-3- hydroxy-5-isoxazoloacetic acid 1, is colourless (crystals, C5H6N2O4, mol wt 158.11, mp 150–152 xC decomposition), readily soluble in cold water. Any attempt of dehydratation leads to decarboxilation yielding quantitatively muscimol, thus suggesting that a meal of the cooked mushrooms, or even after gastric digestion, would only contain the latter substance, and be the agent responsible for the main symptoms. The red skin of the cap and the yellow tissue beneath contain the highest amounts of these substances, so explaining practices in removing it (Catalfomo & Eugster 1970a).
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fastfred
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6173935 - 10/16/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hmmm.... I think in that quote they are probably referring to a dehydration reaction. That is removing a H2O from the ibotenic acid molecule, rather than simply dehydrating the material that it is contained in. Water molecules that are bound to, or incorporated into, other molecules aren't usually removed simply by drying.
I would say they are just talking about the common dehydration reaction of carboxylic acids to acid anhydrides... 2RCO2H --> (RCO)2O + H2O
I don't think that this happens by simple drying, but I could be wrong about that. I haven't studied it at any length. I would think that only the free water would be removed by drying and that it would take some sort of chemical reaction to remove the H2O from the carboxylic acids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydration_reaction
-FF
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Feelers
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: fastfred]
#6174153 - 10/16/06 02:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I agree the article is either very clear or very muddy...
Quote:
Any attempt of dehydratation leads to decarboxilation
Now is that ANY (in an underlined sort of fashion) or is it in keeping with the previous talk about cooking the mushroom.
The thing that sealed it for me was that its common practice to just dry these without using heat, I had always wondered about how this would be possible but it seems to be the case. Perhaps the low water concentration of drying mushrooms effects the equilibrium and the H20 breaks off or something?
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fastfred
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: Feelers]
#6175210 - 10/16/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm still a bit confused about what they meant.
I would think that the way they said it that they would mean a dehydration reaction. Maybe a base catalyzed dehydration judging by the chemistry involved.
But on the other hand any dehydration reaction involving a carboxylic acid is obviously going to decarboxylate it, so why would they bother to state that obvious fact? You would never expect "any attempt at dehydration" of a carboxylic acid to yield anything other than the acid anhydride product.
Ah ha! Typing that out made me realize why they might have said it. You actually don't usually expect decarboxylation. If you dehydrate a carboxylic acid you expect the acid anhydride. So what they must have meant to say is that it is fully decarboxylated by dehydration rather than forming the acid anhydride.
So it's still up in the air what they meant by dehydration. I still think they mean a dehydration reaction.
-FF
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Pinback
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Re: Interesting Article on Amanita Muscaria - Chemistry, Biology, Toxicology and Enthomycology. [Re: fastfred]
#6177342 - 10/17/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Since he actually writes dehydratation, he likely means removal of the water of crystallization.
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