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Offlineknarkkorven
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ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung
    #6107611 - 09/27/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hi. What do you experts think about this photo?
The mushrooms are growing out from a piece of horse dung. Location Sweden.

I have always thought that p. semilanceata didn´t grow on dung?



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Invisiblelandsnorkler

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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven]
    #6107688 - 09/27/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Those deffinitely are not semilanceata. Probably an inactive dung psilocybe. I find similar ones in Montana, on horse dung too. However, since you are in Sweden, there is a slight chance they could be fimetaria, or subfimetaria. Unlikely though. Probably inactive. What color is the sporeprint?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: landsnorkler]
    #6107711 - 09/27/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Those certainly do appear to be Psilocybes, is there any bluing?


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Invisiblebaycafe
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: shroomydan]
    #6107723 - 09/27/06 03:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I see bluing on the broken stem in the right one and they do appear to strongly resemble semilanceata IMHO.


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俺のシロシャイビケッルリプスがここです。

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Offlinethetonebone72
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: landsnorkler]
    #6107742 - 09/27/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Sure looks like a psilocybe. The large mushroom all the way to the right seems to have blue/green bruising. Do you have any other photos?


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: thetonebone72]
    #6108035 - 09/27/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ive seen liberty caps come up THROUGH dung before
this could be a case of that


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven]
    #6108071 - 09/27/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

mostlikely they are P. strictipes or a realted species.

Unusual, yes, but P. strictipes grows in manure and lberty caps do not.

mj


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6110090 - 09/28/06 03:06 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Although semilanceata is fruited most readily of dung substrates in cultivation...
I could have a look at it under a microscope if you like - just PM me if your keen. cheers'


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6110382 - 09/28/06 07:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

mjshroomer: Yes, it might be p. strictipes. If i recall correctly they are macroscopically almost indistinguishable from p. semilanceata if you don´t look specifically at the spores? But in Paul Stamets "Psilocybin mushrooms of the world" he mention that they don´t grow at dung. ??

The person who picked them will try to make a spore print.

/Kk


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven]
    #6110743 - 09/28/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

No they generally like wild grasses to grow in especiallyin western Oregon. However they can come up formt he ground through horse and cow manure. P. fimetaria and P. sierrae also gro9w from manured gardens in parks and fields.. Some sierrae reemble libs, buit those are rather thick stemmed.

ane the caps look pretty thick and slimy. BIt those are definitely Psilocybe.

mj


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6110903 - 09/28/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The person who showed this photo to me also told me that he had found 35 of those in a pile of horse dung. If that might be a clue...

He showed me another photo today, it´s the biggest mushroom from the photo above. I hope he will find more and take better pictures for us. :smile:



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OfflinePoseydon
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven]
    #6111158 - 09/28/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Oo, I see some nice bluing there.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: Poseydon]
    #6114374 - 09/29/06 06:09 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

could be a new species. as i say im open to checking out them under a scope to see what they might be.


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Invisiblelandsnorkler

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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven]
    #6115100 - 09/29/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

wow, that is pretty interesting. Never seen anything quite like those. The veil remnants are strange. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: landsnorkler]
    #7354501 - 08/31/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Microscopic examination points to Psilocybe fimetaria although it seems to be lacking the papilla of that species.

http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Semilanceatae/Sweden_psilocybe_001


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Offlinefliped
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: Workman]
    #7354576 - 08/31/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

interesting


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: fliped]
    #7357902 - 09/01/07 03:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In my research I have found reports of P. fimetaria in Norway and Finland, but not in Sweden until now. Great news!

Thanks workman!

Also check out
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6937663#Post6937663
for a third photo and some other info about the location and other weird looking psilocybe's on that field.



edit:

workmans photo and id information is gone right now so I will paste them here.

Quote:

imilar to Psilocybe semilanceata but found growing directly in dung. There appears to be an annulus on the largest mushroom which would indicate that this species is either Psilocybe subfimetaria aka P. sierrae or P. fimetaria. Spores 11-14.4 x 6-7.6 micrometers agrees well with P. fimetaria but the cap appears to lack the sharp papilla of that species.




photo/microscope: http://knarkkorven.magiskamolekyler.org/svampinfo/foton/Sweden_psilocybe_001.jpg


Edited by knarkkorven (08/07/12 03:26 PM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: knarkkorven] * 1
    #27242756 - 03/08/21 07:01 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I asked Aleks Tudzarovski about this one since he's in Sweden, and he thinks it's Psilocybe semilanceata, and says it occasionally does grow on dung.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27242850 - 03/08/21 08:03 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Alan what do you make of the thick steam and annulus ring? Plus it’s growing directly from dung? Really doesn’t seem like Psilocybe semilanceata.


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"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: ID: Mysterious psilocybe on dung [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27242962 - 03/08/21 09:35 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

What I really want to know how on earth did Workman determined this collection to be fimetaria by microscopy ?
Microscopic features are so similar
between those two species, fimetaria and semilanceata.

Also, Guzman in "The Genus Psilocybe" :

DISCUSSION. P. fimetaria is very close to P. semilanceata (Fr. ex Secr.) Kumm. and to P. callosa (Fr. ex Fr.) Que!. from which it differs in the annulus and non-papillate pileus with the first case, and in the size of the spores in the second case, in addition to the coprophilous habitat. It is possible to find intermediate forms between these species which are difficult to understand, at least in herbarium collections. All the "P. semilanceata" found in herbarium with non papillate pileus, coprophilous or subcoprophilous habitat, and annulus or subannulus are considered here as P. fimetaria.

This specimen:
Non-papillate pileus
Coprophilic habitat
Annulus

So this is Ps.fimetaria right ? Well I don't think so. Semilanceata can have an annulus. Semilanceata can have non papillate pileus, and semilanceata can grow from manure. Why not after all ? What is manure than grass enriched with minerals and water. Ideal habitat for spores to germinate and also, plenty of nutrition. Or, the dung can possibly be dropped on grass, and semilanceata could push it's way through, again, why not ?

So, the next difference Guzman mentions is spore size. Well, spore size is highly variable within the same species. I remember Jan Borovička deconstructing Ps.bohemica to 10 different species using spore size measurements. He measured whole bunch of spores from different collections, found some average for each, and concluded we have 10 different species involved. Jesus Christ. This reminded me of the South Park episode where Cartman measures penis size of the whole school. Can we construct different species using penis or spore size ? Ludicrous.
Now DNA proved him wrong easily, but sometimes DNA is not so black and white.

I don't know what Ps.fimetaria is, but I doubt it actually exist as it was originally described. It is probably a variation of Ps.semilanceata, meaning - same species.


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