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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 131
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams
    #6091078 - 09/22/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I am planning on doing rye jars. Here are the lids I will be using:



The white piece is made from the synthetic filter disks from myco supply, glued over a 3/8" hole. I have read that when shaking the jars moisture can build up in this material, and "wick" contams into the jar.

Are these reports true?
If so, I was planning on doing one of two things.
1. Attaching another small filter disc to the underside of the lid, or
2. Adding a disc the size of the jar mouth, free floating, underneath the lid (as in most of the grain jar teks around).

So if contams CAN indeed "wick", and I do one of the above, I will be adding a second layer of this synthetic disc material.
Will two layers and the 3/8" hole allow enough air exchange in the jar? Will I need to add another hole?


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Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF


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OfflineTerillius
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6091244 - 09/22/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If your grain is at the right moisture content it will never transfer enough water to the filter that you will have problems. There is usually enough airflow through the filter that what little moisture does collect in them evaporates away.

Two layers will inhibit air exchange = bad idea.

So, the reports are true, but it is a rare problem. You could compromise and use a tin foil dust cover if it makes you feel better. I wouldn't, but you could.

BTW, love your avatar.


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OfflinePrimate
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: Terillius]
    #6093753 - 09/23/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Will tyvek under lid/w polyfill in innoc/AE hole and coffee filter rubber banded over top(as in Docs WBS tek) interfere /w AE too much?

thanks


-Prim


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"Power to the peaceful"

-Micheal Franti and Spearhead


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: Primate]
    #6093762 - 09/23/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just stick a wad of polyfill in the hole it has always worked for me.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: musher_420]
    #6093773 - 09/23/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lots of people use lids very similar to yours with no wicking problems.

not to say that it will not happen, but it doesn't seem to be a prominent
concern at all amongst those whom use those lids.

I would say go for it.
as is.


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: monstermitch]
    #6095358 - 09/24/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent. I was hoping as much.
I used contact cement to put those suckers down, Im actually a little concerned with the edges peeling up, so now that I am not putting another layer of filter down, maybe I will put a little contact cement around the edged just to be safe.

So in your guys' opinion, that 3/8" hole will create enough air flow?


Thanks Terillius,1up all the way!
Yours reminds me of a Tool video.
Speaking of Avatars and Music, musher, SOAD rocks my socks!


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6095370 - 09/24/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that hole is plenty big enough.

you don't want any air flow.

you just need a place for gas to escape


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: monstermitch]
    #6098557 - 09/25/06 01:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Isnt gas escaping air flow? Well . . air exchange I suppose. Im also considering putting a vent in my incubation unit. Is this necessary?

Oh an on a completely unrelated topic. Im about done soaking my grain, and I have noticed something. Some of the rye teks use Verm mixed in with the grains. Is this necessary? I would imagine the more grain/food the better . . .

Also, is simmering grain in the pressure cooker a bad idea? I just dont have another pot. Silly question I know . .


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF


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OfflineGOLFBALL
Hole in ONE!
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Registered: 09/22/06
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6098675 - 09/25/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I would use Tyvek... it's water resistant.

so if and when you shake them, nothing bad will happen. (wicking contams)

one piece under the 2 piece lid will do ya just fine. When you poke through during inoculation, cover your hole with micopore tape.

(micopore tape removes easily, if not pc'd)


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"We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams" -(Arthur O'Shaughnessy)


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6098966 - 09/25/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

air flow/exchange is not the same as gas exchange.

do not mix verm in with the grains, that won't help you.
it may very well throw off your water content.

the pressure cooker is fine to use as a pot for boiling.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: monstermitch]
    #6099122 - 09/25/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

In cultivation we make a distinction between air exchange and gas exchange.

Gas exchange is when the gasses must percolate up through a verm barrier or other filter to three or four small holes in the lid. The small filter on spawn bags allows for gas exchange. The very limited exchange that takes place allows the excess CO2 to get out of the jars and be replaced by very small amounts of filtered room air.

Air exchange is when we remove the lid on a fruiting chamber or run a fan in a greenhouse to forcefully fan the contents in order to blow out the stale air and replace it with large amounts of unfiltered room air.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6099132 - 09/25/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

thanks RR


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: monstermitch]
    #6099279 - 09/25/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Golfball, thats another direction I guess . . .

Thanks RR and Mitch. I have a air filtering unit in the closet with my Martha, maybe I should move it with the incubator huh?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF


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Offlinehyphae
born to grow
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6099866 - 09/25/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Apparently you failed to to read this, IMPORTANT - Useful Links - Failure to heed may bring TERRIBLE Misfortune!

This is another unclear subject to many, lets clear it up now and forever!

Gas exchange: The ability to release builtup gases resulting from the myc's metabolic activity (consuming substrate). A result of this inability to release these gas creates EXCESS myc piss which BTW is a normal process (myc piss) but an excess is not, it can easily stall a cake. (do not lick your cakes or leave your holes taped) :wink: Simply put it's an exchange in values.

FAE (fresh air exchange) is the lowering of the co2 concentration through the introduction of fresh air plain and simple. A good fresh air exchange includes the stagnated moisture pockets of the casing surface (microclimate).


--------------------
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Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Registered: 06/16/04
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Re: Grain Jar Lids -- Air Exchange/Contams [Re: hyphae]
    #6105886 - 09/27/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

::thumbs up:: thanks mate.


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF


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