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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6109323 - 09/27/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AaronEvil said:
What, in your opinion, makes him deranged?




Cuz he isn't sucking bush's cock.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #6109923 - 09/28/06 01:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:...

most of the right-wing nutcakes here are beyond all help...but it wont be long before millions of americans will be hog-tied in freezer cells wondering why they didnt listen to keith olbermann...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinekotik
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: StroFun]
    #6110163 - 09/28/06 04:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

StroFun said:
Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Economist said:
many of the things he said weren't true... They weren't false either, they were just opinion. They're true to you because you share the opinion, but if you go back and listen to it, he sites almost no evidence, no sources, nothing.

He also launched into many ad hominem attacks (calling Bush a coward, for example). Anyone knows that this is what someone does when they don't have real evidence.

In many ways, that's the worst part. The evidence is out there, it's easy to find, and it would have been easy to site, but he couldn't do that, he only had the time to call Bush names.




my thoughts exactly. I'm a huge countdown fan, but you have to be blind to not see the bullshit. The media is all ganging up on bush, now that his approval is low. NO ONE had the balls to call any of this out when the country was "split" with like 50/50 approvals. These "brave" reporters only speak out when they are sure they are with the majority.




So what you are saying, and correct me if i'm wrong, is that you don't think that majority in America should have a central public voice?
I think the media SHOULD reflect the majority of americans...




no, my problem is that the media only reports for the majority.. and in this case, the majority was the minority before katrina. What about before the second election? What about all during the beginning of the war? Since everyone protesting was minority, they were called cowards and unpatriotic.. not the coin is flipping, and everyone is getting on the other side.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6110200 - 09/28/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
He also launched into many ad hominem attacks (calling Bush a coward, for example). Anyone knows that this is what someone does when they don't have real evidence.

In many ways, that's the worst part. The evidence is out there, it's easy to find, and it would have been easy to site, but he couldn't do that, he only had the time to call Bush names.

I'm sick of the Bush administration, but I'm also sick of anyone who's opposed to the Bush administration just launching into opinionated attacks........




All opinion? Right as I read that I was listening to this special comment on youtube, right at 8:00 minutes. Skip to the 8th minute and watch for 12 seconds. Take in what he says.

Moments later I watched this (first youtube box on the page with Bush on it) http://www.ebolaworld.com/blog/

Watch a little of that, and then tell me it's just olbermann's opinion.


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: beatnicknick]
    #6110729 - 09/28/06 10:10 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know what to tell you guys, I mean, listen to the language Olbermann uses. He opens by describing President Clinton as being:

"Bullied and sandbagged by a monkey posing as a newscaster..."

Because "monkey posing as a newscaster" is a responsible and factually accurate comment...

he described those who agree with the neocons as being:

"a propaganda company so blatant that Tokyo Rose would have quit..."

This is especially funny because he later suggests that they are "poisoning the market for ideas", when the reality is Olbermann himself just suggested that neocon ideas are nothing more than propaganda. Suggesting that no one can honestly believe in them is just bull. The Neocons have just as much right to express their opinions as Olbermann does, and anyone has just as much right to believe in them.

he later describes President Bush's speaches as:

"to hear him plead, and whine, and bully..."

he also says that Bush's actions:

"hardly reflect the honesty or manliness we expect in the executive..."

MANLINESS!!! Are you kidding me? So he's challenging Bush's manhood as part of a "factual report"? Is anyone still convinced this isn't by and large an opinion piece?

But it doesn't stop there:

"until a grownup takes the job three Januaries from now..."

Right, because when you disagree with someone the responsible thing to do is call them a child!

Other great comments: "he has done this with nefariousness and slime" or how about:

"lies with which the authoritarians among us attack the virtuous and promote the useless"

Let alone the obvious judgement call that authoritarians don't believe in virtue, calling everyone who supported the Iraq war "useless" is clearly an ad hominem attack.

The whole comment about Chris Wallace selling out his credibility as a journalist and selling seeds by mail is so ridiculous as to be laughable.

I'm still trying to find a "textbook definition of cowardice" that follows from "You ignored the evidence of your predecessor and your own people and then blamed your predecessor". Of course, it's probably just another ad hominem, given that Olbermann hasn't hesitated to drop those in this story.

I never said I disagreed with what Olbermann is claiming, but you're deluding yourselves if you think it's anything more than opinion, and I believe Olbermann could have done a far better, more responsible job WITHOUT the name-calling. He's talking down to the American people if he believes the facts can't speak for themsevles.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6110770 - 09/28/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

24 Posts! this is twice the size of his usual ratings.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleStroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6110895 - 09/28/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Does the established fact that this is an opion affect its validity?

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: StroFun]
    #6110922 - 09/28/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

StroFun said:
Does the established fact that this is an opinion affect its validity?




Definitely not, it's still a valid opinion.

I just think the Iraq Intelligence report is such a smoking gun that there's no need to call names. I mean, it's all right there: the war in Iraq is not helping to fight terrorism.

But, if you stoop to name-calling, you risk not being heard by people who might otherwise be affected by the report. It's easier to dismiss something that's packaged with slanderous accusations than it is for a report that states the facts.

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OfflineAaronEvil
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Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6111115 - 09/28/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Let me ask a question. Do you think name calling is really that bad? To be completely honest I think Olberman used his slanderous tactics in a very appropriate way. Disagree with me if you will, but I am all for name calling if it is relevent. For example, I think it was ok for Bush and others to call the 9/11 hijackers cowards. I think it was ok for them to call the hijackers crazy, insane or any other form of the word. I think if it is on topic, the name calling is perfectly ok. But see, name calling is a double edge sword. You can only name call if everyone agrees with you. For instance, when someone like Bill Maher points out the courage the 9/11 hijackers had he got fired and lost his show. So, I then ask you, is it ok to name call under any circumstances or only name call when people agree with YOU?

I agree with just about everything Olberman said, even the child remarks. I think our president is a child at times and it sickens me to think that I may never get my country back. It used to be a great country.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6111300 - 09/28/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I enjoyed the KO rant but that is mainly because I happen to agree with him. I do not find it particularly helpful. We need more civility in our public discourse. But this is the era of the Bill O'Reillys, the Michael Moores and the Ann Coulters.

Thoughtful and polite conservatives like George Will are pushed aside in favor of rude, arrogant loud-mouths like O'Reilly who get the big ratings.

These people are demagogues who love to endlessly pit Us vs Them which is why they simplify issues. Over-simplification ensures that only the most ignorant, most emotional people are drawn into the fray as fodder for the fat cats who are served by the demagogues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (09/28/06 01:00 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: zorbman]
    #6111354 - 09/28/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The 21st century sucks balls.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6111777 - 09/28/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
I don't know what to tell you guys, I mean, listen to the language Olbermann uses. He opens by describing President Clinton as being:

"Bullied and sandbagged by a monkey posing as a newscaster..."

Because "monkey posing as a newscaster" is a responsible and factually accurate comment...

etc...





You have pointed out that what he said is not perhaps a politically correct manner of reporting, where the news is reported as though from a spectator without personal thoughts. However, you have not shown an instance of where the things he said are not true.

Offensive, yet true, is still true, and that's the point. It would be avoiding the truth to not point out what the behaviours of the administration are, in terms of humanity.


Quote:

Let alone the obvious judgement call that authoritarians don't believe in virtue, calling everyone who supported the Iraq war "useless" is clearly an ad hominem attack.



You're right. The full truth would have been to say that everyone who supported the Iraq war have been detrimental to peace worldwide, and that they are now additional fuelers of terrorism.

You dislike him because he points the finger, but it's because nobody apporpriately pointed the finger before that things have been enabled to get this bad.

Why don't you complain about all the namecalling and belittling George Bush has thrown out in reference to his enemies? I mean, when he does it it's just empty words, so why would you dissaprove when someone gives criticisms that are true?

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6112205 - 09/28/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
You have pointed out that what he said is not perhaps a politically correct manner of reporting, where the news is reported as though from a spectator without personal thoughts. However, you have not shown an instance of where the things he said are not true

Offensive, yet true, is still true, and that's the point. It would be avoiding the truth to not point out what the behaviours of the administration are, in terms of humanity.



I haven't show an instance where the things he said are not true...

So Chris Wallace is *litterally* a monkey posing as a newscaster.  That must be some amazing makeup.  :rolleyes:


Quote:

Disco Cat said:You're right. The full truth would have been to say that everyone who supported the Iraq war have been detrimental to peace worldwide, and that they are now additional fuelers of terrorism.



Does this include all the Democrats who voted for the war, or do they get a pass from you?

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
You dislike him because he points the finger, but it's because nobody apporpriately pointed the finger before that things have been enabled to get this bad.



No, I dislike him because he's unprofessional about it.  I expect namecalling from Fox News, and I expect real journalists to behave with a certain level of respect.

Keith Olbermann's comment is a quiet admission that maybe it's time to throw in the towel and try the same tactics that the neocons do.  When in doubt, namecall, mud sling, and dumb down the facts in favor of demagoguery.  I believe that the media can do better than that.  I belive that the facts can speak for themselves, and I believe that it is possible to have constructive debate, especially in the information age.  I believe it is the responsibility of the Keith Olbermann's of the world to engage in constructive debate, not slander, not mud slinging, and certainly not name calling.

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Why don't you complain about all the namecalling and belittling George Bush has thrown out in reference to his enemies? I mean, when he does it it's just empty words, so why would you dissaprove when someone gives criticisms that are true?



Who says I don't?

Can you find any threads where I've supported Bush's logic, suggested his speech was worthwhile, or said he was right to call names?

Frankly I expected more from the opposition, but now I learn that my expectations were ill-placed and I was bound for disappointment.

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OfflineAaronEvil
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6112353 - 09/28/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Look, I agree with you that he wasnt professional as a newscaster/journalist. However, he was doing an editorial speech which by definition is an opinion. No where does he say that he is covering a story, providing you with only facts or keeping his opinion out of it. I think journalists SHOULD have an opinion. I think they should show some sort of pride in what they feel, speak out on things they strongly agree/disagree with. If they didnt the media would be even more dull than it already is. I support anyone speaking about something they feel passionate about even if I disagree with them or think they are a "monkey posing as a newscaster."

The thing that pisses me off about your comments is that you are a hypocrite. You say he provides no facts (which I have no problem with as it is an editorial aimed towards people who know the facts) yet you yourself provide no facts. You say that the "facts speak for themselves." I hope you are joking. Certainly these facts cant literally speak for themselves. If they could we wouldnt need people to cover them on the news, the facts would explain it all in clear and perfect English. So please, at least practice what you preach.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6112361 - 09/28/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Personally, I can't stand journalists that try their darndest to be neutral. I'll watch Lou Dobbs over Wolf Blitzer any day.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Basilides]
    #6112546 - 09/28/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Keith Olbermann hasn't been a journalist for years, if he ever was. Anyway, we have the inimitable Iowahawk to bring perspective to this moron's meltdown:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/

"A Clockwork Strawberry

[ed. - Found under a pile of discarded MSNBC Nielsen Ratings: first draft of fringe cable TV superstar Keith Olberman's Howard Beale moment]

By Keith Olbermann
Editor and Chief, MSNBC "Meltdown with Keith Olbermann"

And now, turning to the headlines.

The headlines are, of course, entirely wrong.

Nevermind the fonts, which are totally misleading.

Thus it is surely not essential that a revered and beloved past president, pistol-whipped and sandbagged by a subhuman terrorist monkey with a microphone, finally lashed back with a raw, sinewy panther-like ferocity that sent his primate interlocutor scurrying back for the safety of Roger Ailes’ banyan tree.

Nor is it not important, in the infinitesimal cosmic clockwork of simian Beltway irony or lack thereof, that the current President’s prefab peanut gallery of poo-flinging psychedelic missing links has described his predecessor’s tone as “crazed.”

Insofar as it is as it is, in the words of founding father John Quincy Fillmore, "shan't not our very tone be encrazed?" Good, old fashioned batshit gravel-munching crazy, for, in such times as such are these, that the nation’s freedoms are under assault by an administration whose policies can do us as much damage as al-Qaeda; when, and in which the nation’s groundwater of ideas has been flouridated by the poisonous propaganda of heinous Fox play-by-play "homers," in bias so blatant that it would prompt Harry Caray puke a rainbow arc of Budweiser vomit from his pressbox cloud during 7th inning stretch at the friendly confines of heaven’s celestial Wrigley Field. No, citizen, these are insane times when the only sane response is to hop aboard Ozzie Osborne’s Crazy Train, go to the dining car for the all-U-can-eat bat head & psilocybin buffet, and, in the words of founding father George Jefferson, move on up to that dee-luxe apartment in the skybox of CrazyCom stadium.

Nonetheless. The headline is this:"

If you don't read this whole thing you don't care.


--------------------

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: Economist]
    #6112562 - 09/28/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Disco Cat said:You're right. The full truth would have been to say that everyone who supported the Iraq war have been detrimental to peace worldwide, and that they are now additional fuelers of terrorism.



Does this include all the Democrats who voted for the war, or do they get a pass from you?




Of course it includes them. My point was that this isn't a party vs party criticism.


Quote:

Basilides said:
Personally, I can't stand journalists that try their darndest to be neutral. I'll watch Lou Dobbs over Wolf Blitzer any day.




It's true, statistic reporters are useless. The issue is that people don't trust emotion or assertions because so many people use such things selfishly and erronously, and so many people dismiss anyone who delivers their speach using these things. I think it is only proper to give the whole essence of yourself into your message, however, you need to do it ethically, and so not lead people astray.
That's where the problem lies... people in general don't trust other people to be ethical towards them, and they similarly don't trust their own senses and knowledge, or do research (which I'm not always entirely innocent of myself) to determine whether what they heard was all, or contained some truth or not.

Also, namecalling automatically dismisses many people's statements. That's an issue that political correctness has brought about, and it is very misguided. Most of the time namecalling is baseless, and so the association is that namecalling is done by people who are, themselves, the foolish ones. That is completely an untrue concept. "If the shoe fits, wear it" - this suggests that there is a place for namecalling, insulting... tho if it is an accurate expression then it would no longer be an insult, instead an observation. The insult would have been self-inflicted by the actions of the person that make their apparent derogatation legitimate.

Edited by Disco Cat (09/28/06 07:45 PM)

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #6113939 - 09/28/06 11:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I absolutely agree with everything that Oblermann said. Cheers to him :thumbup:

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InvisibleStroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
Re: i dont think ive ever heard more truth spoken by one man [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6114445 - 09/29/06 07:09 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Keith Olbermann hasn't been a journalist for years, if he ever was.  Anyway, we have the inimitable Iowahawk to bring perspective to this moron's meltdown:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/

"A Clockwork Strawberry

[ed. - Found under a pile of discarded MSNBC Nielsen Ratings: first draft of fringe cable TV superstar Keith Olberman's Howard Beale moment]

By Keith Olbermann
Editor and Chief, MSNBC "Meltdown with Keith Olbermann"

And now, turning to the headlines.

The headlines are, of course, entirely wrong.

Nevermind the fonts, which are totally misleading.

Thus it is surely not essential that a revered and beloved past president, pistol-whipped and sandbagged by a subhuman terrorist monkey with a microphone, finally lashed back with a raw, sinewy panther-like ferocity that sent his primate interlocutor scurrying back for the safety of Roger Ailes’ banyan tree.

Nor is it not important, in the infinitesimal cosmic clockwork of simian Beltway irony or lack thereof, that the current President’s prefab peanut gallery of poo-flinging psychedelic missing links has described his predecessor’s tone as “crazed.”

Insofar as it is as it is, in the words of founding father John Quincy Fillmore, "shan't not our very tone be encrazed?" Good, old fashioned batshit gravel-munching crazy, for, in such times as such are these, that the nation’s freedoms are under assault by an administration whose policies can do us as much damage as al-Qaeda; when, and in which the nation’s groundwater of ideas has been flouridated by the poisonous propaganda of heinous Fox play-by-play "homers," in bias so blatant that it would prompt Harry Caray puke a rainbow arc of Budweiser vomit from his pressbox cloud during 7th inning stretch at the friendly confines of heaven’s celestial Wrigley Field. No, citizen, these are insane times when the only sane response is to hop aboard Ozzie Osborne’s Crazy Train, go to the dining car for the all-U-can-eat bat head & psilocybin buffet, and, in the words of founding father George Jefferson, move on up to that dee-luxe apartment in the skybox of CrazyCom stadium.

Nonetheless. The headline is this:"

If you don't read this whole thing you don't care.



:thumbup:

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