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Invisibleshymanta
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Testing for paranormal phanomon
    #6101268 - 09/26/06 12:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If you were to do experiments with mushrooms to see what could be done, what would you test for? And how would you design the experiment?

Example: visual acuity, telepathy, or ability to astral travel.

Turn on the creativity.

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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6101315 - 09/26/06 12:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it doesn't really work like that.
i've tried.
tests are ongoing, but it takes ages to compile sufficient information.

miracles don't allow for any sort of tests or exploitation that way.

experiencing magic is more important than documenting it.

don't try to test stuff.
just experience your trip, and then later on try to jot down some notes, over years it's like each trip gives you one sentence, and after years you have a book, which sort of explains the whole test & results.

trip often, then you won't need test results, you'll just instinctively KNOW- and once you get to that point guess what?
it no longer matters if anybody else knows, just so long as you do.

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Offlineqwertymkonji
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6101327 - 09/26/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would test my ability to bring back some sort of factual evidence that can be proven to be fact, such as people, animals, or places ive never heard of, or maybe even events in the future. I'd also try to talk to aliens or beings in higher realms to find out where the human race is headed and find out if our conciousness is going to evolve, and how.

I'd try to set myself up in the most peaceful environment possible with a tape recorder as well as a pen and paper to draw things i cant describe, and just go for it.

I'm planning on doing this in the near future, actually.

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Offlineqwertymkonji
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: qwertymkonji]
    #6101339 - 09/26/06 12:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with telepylus about the "it doesnt matter if anybody else knows, just so long as you do"

This is the main reason for me doing this, but if something else comes out of it that can benefit someone else, I'm all for that as well.

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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: Telepylus]
    #6101344 - 09/26/06 12:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Telepylus, you didn't answer the question. If you would like to participate in my thread, please include parameters for a scientific experiment. What did you try? What were your results?

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OfflineTheJakeyl88
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6102169 - 09/26/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I dont understand why his answer doesn't "fit the parameters" You asked for opinions on how people would test ect.  He answered, with his opinion that you really couldn't test and WHY.  Thats like making a thread about the existance of God, and when someone posted that God didn't exist you lash out at them for not following parameters.  You didn't like his answer, but his answer was valid, thought out and provided you with what I think was very relevant information that may save you from wasting your trips on these experiments when chances are you'd never come close to finishing one experiment while tripping.  The experiment is YOU TAKING the mushrooms alone, you don't need anything else! 

And may I add for the sake of adding:  Its America!

Participate when, and wherever you'd like! 

Sorry I'm starting trouble!  :tongue:

No offense I just woke up, I'm in a terrible mood  :sad:

Anyways I experimented with telepathy a few times and recorded it but it was with DXM.  We would take random change amounts, close a fist, and one person would meditate on the hand holding the change.  You'd be suprised how many people on DXM would actually be able to "see" how many coins the person was holding, the amount it made up, the side it was facing (heads or tails).  It was amazing.  DXM puts your third eye chakra in turbo mode.

Edited by TheJakeyl88 (09/26/06 08:23 AM)

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Invisiblebadchad
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Posts: 13,377
Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6102192 - 09/26/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Some of the things you mentioned would be easier to test than others. For instance: visual acuity. Simply a blind a person to the treatment conditions, and test their vision before and after administration of drugs.

Other things would be more difficult as most people would say they are more subjective in nature.

For instance, to measure telepathy you could blind two individuals to the treatment conditions (as you would in all cases). Then simply see if one person can transmit a number sequence to a second person. You could also attempt simple shapes etc.

You would obviously fail in such an experiment. This is where most of the people say something such as: "No way, you can only transmit feelings, and emotions through telepathy". Basically it allows people to justify telepathy by interpreting there results to fit their original ideas about it.

The same experiment could be used for astral projection. Have someone identify an unknown object or number sequence in an adjacent room.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: TheJakeyl88]
    #6104152 - 09/26/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheJakeyl88 said:
And may I add for the sake of adding:  Its America!

Participate when, and wherever you'd like! 





Yes, next time you see the police confiscating someone's stash, jump right in and participate.  I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms.  :wink:  Besides, this isn't America, this is the Internet.  In some ways more free than the States.  But that doesn't mean basic courtesy should be ignored.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to dis on Telepylus.  I agree with some of the things he said.  What I don't agree with is "Don't try to test stuff."  Structured not as a suggestion but as an order.

I'm not worried about "wasting trips".  You make the assumption that I'm just some guy with a bag mushrooms wondering what to do with them.  That I'm looking for, and perhaps should have tried to make more clear, is ideas for legitimate scientific research into the possible uses of these things.  Normal or paranormal.  I may never perform any experiments at all.  In fact, if I did, they would certainly be illegal.  As I don't have any licensing to perform a research study concerning a schedule I substance.

Do you see where I' coming from on this?

Edited by shymanta (09/26/06 04:49 PM)

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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6104168 - 09/26/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

A good test would require:
Do it while tripping and not (control)
must be objective.
Perform it preferably several times
must be testable
keep it simple.

So like, draw basic shapes on about 10 cards, flip them over and shuffle. One person picks a card and concentrates on the image, the other tries to guess what it is. Perform several trials, sober and while tripping. Perform a t-test to analyze data (excel data analysis).

Do things like that, I guess? It helps to have actual numbers for your data, otherwise it's not so scientific. It needs to be absolutely objective, which shrooms aren't really about.

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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: thatiAM]
    #6104213 - 09/26/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Definitely very subjective. Which presents the biggest hurdles to jump.

I like your suggestion. I've had what might be called telepathic experiences. Some sort of thought or emotional transference.

I think if two people on low doses were to try "thinking" the shapes to one another, that a third (sober) person could take notes and this would make it objective.

You know, this stuff may sound hokey but if something repeatable came out of it, it could spark some significant findings. An all who participated would no doubt have fun.

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6104274 - 09/26/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is just a game, no proof here..

This is one method I have used with friends and it really did bug them out after many many tries. I was against all odds, and I beat the shit out of them. This was after a large dose of ayahuasca and even when by myself synchronicity ruled my world. My mind was synchronized with the entire world and this synchronicity between my body/mind and my external surroundings was so amazing that when still tripping a day later(kinda scared about how hard I was still tripping) I asked my best friend to do a test.

He was a serious poker player and knew alot about odds and such. He eventually didnt want to play anymore. I think I pissed him off in a way.
-------------------------------------------------------------

The object of the game is to try to fool the "guesser" in any way you can without using duplicate cards(suits dont count in this game).
13 cards with 5 per segment of the test

The "guesser's" job is to find an underlying pattern within the friends psyche, or to feel when the pattern might change because of your "score" or such things.

I really freaked these people out, (and actually kind of freaked myself out).
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The object is to guess all five cards or as many as you can when the other person is holding their chosen cards. Random card choosing doesnt work as well. I chose to make this experiement apply to both math and consciousness. It is based on pattern recognition, so that you may or may not be able to defy the odds.

It takes many tries to really start to blow your mind.
So out of thirteen cards.
------------------------------------------------------

2,3,5,7,10 is my first pick out of 13 possible cards.

What is my next pick if im trying to make you loose. Remember no suits count and no duplicates(duplicate hands no...., duplicate cards yes... however if you(I in this case) use a pair you cant use them in the next hand). The order doesnt matter either.

It really can be fun. Its not going to turn anyones head unless you really are tapped in and have been playing for a little while. SO this isnt hardcore though it can become very interesting for obvious reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------

Just for the sake of any weirdness or actual telepathy that might go down here, I have been thinking of these numbers and trying to fool you for 15 min or (I have been thinking of these cards and have had them in my mind).

A simple guess is not worthy of a reply...........see what I mean.
What the hell am I thinking?


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (09/26/06 05:35 PM)

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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: yageman]
    #6104324 - 09/26/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Not sure I completely understand this game. Am I trying to guess the next card in a sequence based on a pettern? If so, I guess King. But maybe I don't get it.

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6104338 - 09/26/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No you guess 5 cards out of the 13 availible cards.

I gave the first hand because understanding a patter in the other persons psyche is the whole point. If you can guess 3-4 cards many times in a row is when it gets interesting.

Just for fun, Ill tell you that the king was one of the 5.

See what I mean. It takes many hands to start getting weird, even though we have not really played yes via the internet. Im pretty sure It works best in person.

I actually wrote it on paper, and guess what king was the first number I though of to fool you..... K,?,?,?,?


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (09/26/06 05:47 PM)

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InvisibleSam1912
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Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6104345 - 09/26/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There are general guidelines for control/test for scientific studies. The design of each test depends on certification you want. If you want FDA approval, they have their own rules for each of the 3 phases. Some are simple as just anonymous surveys, some are more intense like control group/test groups. Some are even more tricky like blind/double blind(use of placebo). First question you should ask before designing a test is... what is the goal? With that said, I'd like to say that I'll let you guys do the testing. I like getting high safely and I've done enough personal tests to confirm my methods.


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.

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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: shymanta]
    #6104358 - 09/26/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, so I pick five and see how well that match the five you picked? You are now holding 5 card in your head and I chose 5 and after a few hands we start seeing the weird stuff. Right?

Cards I chose at random... except for the king:
A,8,k,4,2

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: Sam1912]
    #6104360 - 09/26/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is not about the kind of telepathy like you are thinking about. Its about pattern recognition. I already told you your King was the first card in the deck of five cards.

This is a silly method of playing with other peoples minds. But its a start.

SO 2,3,5,7,10 was my first pick. Im trying to fool you. What are my next 5 cards.

(I dont mess with the lessons ayahuasca has taught me, I do dabble a bit in the weird element of patter recognition that it provides).
NO proof here, like I said.......


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (09/26/06 05:52 PM)

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: yageman]
    #6104377 - 09/26/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

King, 4 was what you got right that time.

funny thing, I changed my 3 to a four to "fool you".
Otherwise you would have only gotten 1 right.

I dont expect you to hone into my universe here, you are nowhere near me and you dont know me, or where I live.

You dont choose cards at random. I need to fool you........Its about the unity between math and the psyche.
Become math, become chance.

This is reverse of the way I played it because I was the "guesser", not the chooser of the cards.

PATTERN RECOGNITION. Its why people feel so similare to others or even telepathic when on hallucinogens.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (09/26/06 06:00 PM)

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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: yageman]
    #6104398 - 09/26/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

see this is a perfect example.
i studied tarot extensively, and even created this really fun game to play using them, and my friends and me & my wife would play all the time and record the results, because the game implies that psychic power is real.

well, one day, when we were tripping on shrooms, it was almost like we could hear each others thoughts and stuff, so we decided to play the game.
and it really freaked us out big time because as we were playing we hit the odds 1 in 78, calling the exact card, 5 times in a row, right from the beginning- a friend then knocked and interrupted us
this was sort of mind blowing for us, but it means nothing to anybody else.


testing it won't bring you any closer to understanding its strangeness.
the truth is you really have to be apart of that strangeness for a long time to derive any set model of noticable paranormal variations.

the truth is, when you are tripping you may notice all sorts of telepathy or miracles happening- i think everyone pretty much knows that already. even the government probably.

i can tell you that i've tested the bounds of reality
and derived sets of models to prove noticable paranormal variations
and guess what?
most people really just don't even care about it at all.


and something else about testing-
i found that during my testing i would have a pen and paper ready, and results would be normal-
and i began to notice that every single time the results became extraordinarily paranormal, strangely, there was no pen in the room.
and this happened many times over.

the wisdom or knowledge of the paranormal energies seems to protect itself through many different means.

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: yageman]
    #6104405 - 09/26/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My next pick is K,Q,3,6,8

Whats my next pick after that if Im tring to fool you. It doesnt work unless we meet eachother halfway. The only way that this works is if you consider that 2 hands before this.

I have it on a sheet of paper.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (09/26/06 06:04 PM)

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InvisibleSam1912
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Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Testing for paranormal phanomon [Re: Telepylus]
    #6104409 - 09/26/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

voice/video recorders ftw!


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.

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